"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

[Kal Rubinson]

...I don't have an example of better video vs. written review, @microstrip but I do think that is due to the creators, not the medium itself.

Agreed.

 

[Tuckers]

High End Audio exists because of the love of music (or sounds) and Passion. Without the passion, no one would spend more than a couple of thousand dollars for any component, and the drive to continue to achieve that next 1% of performance wouldn't exist. Passion is not a great bedfellow of objectivity and neutrality. Hence the constant friction we see in this dumpster fire of a thread!!

 

[Audio Addict]

The IRS has a very in depth analysis of independence that anyone accepting long term free loans of equipment would have a difficult time passing. Why should there be some special definition for a reviewer?

In fact, the IRS has specific valuation regulations to determine if there is any income involved if the relationship if it is not at an arm's length.

Reviewers should be held to the same standards as other independent contractors.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The IRS has a very in depth analysis of independence that anyone accepting long term free loans of equipment would have a difficult time passing. Why should there be some special definition for a reviewer?

In fact, the IRS has specific valuation regulations to determine if there is any income involved if the relationship if it is not at an arm's length.

Reviewers should be held to the same standards as other independent contractors.

IRS , didn t Irwin schiff do already a good analysis regarding that topic

 

[Audio Addict]

IRS , didn t Irwin schiff do already a good analysis regarding that topic

Most likely.

Irwin Schiff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lee]

A smart reviewer would have a large enough home to store all those long term loans , plus do as much reviews as possible at 200 / 500 $ per review .

This creates an incentive off course to declare all new products as better / slightly better , because not doing so would put you out of review samples / business quit quickly i reckon

Not really as most reviewers have full time jobs. Full time editors are on salary.

 

[Elliot G.]

View attachment 105905


I did not visit Robert Harley listening room but I have spend many many times to have better sound in similar way and I have used Diffuser/Absorber/Traps and ... in my room.
finally I hated the result, for me the good sound does not come from using lots of sound absorbing/diffusing in the room.
I prefer to have natural sound of my room at moderate RT and I do not fight with it. those CD albums beside left speaker (the first left reflection) are awful for sound in Robert Harley room.

I know experts like David (@ddk), Jim Smith, Roy Gregory (@RoyGregory), Kevin, Bob do not use lots of sound absorber/diffuser in the room.

this is the Roy Gregory listening room :
View attachment 105907
View attachment 105908



this is the Kevin Room in UK :
View attachment 105909

thank you for your replies and I can now put you on ignore as I doubt there is anything from you that would ever help me nor anyone else. Assuming you know everything when you have never been to any of these is really insane.
You seem to have a huge issue determining the difference of what you assume and what is reality.
I have been to Robert Harleys, I have been to Mike Lavignes, I have been to Karen Sumners, I have been to Marty Wax. I do know Roy Gregory.,I do know Jim Smith, I do know Stirling Trayle, I have been to CH Precision... and I could go on.
Audio requires you to listen and not to assume you know something from divining it from opinion without fact.
You can certainly have your opinion but you can't see that your opinion is just that YOUR opinion.
I cant disagree more with you on everything .

 

[Lee]

View attachment 105905


I did not visit Robert Harley listening room but I have spend many many times to have better sound in similar way and I have used Diffuser/Absorber/Traps and ... in my room.
finally I hated the result, for me the good sound does not come from using lots of sound absorbing/diffusing in the room.
I prefer to have natural sound of my room at moderate RT and I do not fight with it. those CD albums beside left speaker (the first left reflection) are awful for sound in Robert Harley room.

I know experts like David (@ddk), Jim Smith, Roy Gregory (@RoyGregory), Kevin, Bob do not use lots of sound absorber/diffuser in the room.

this is the Roy Gregory listening room :
View attachment 105907
View attachment 105908



this is the Kevin Room in UK :
View attachment 105909

Amir,

I don’t think you should criticize a listening room simply based on photos. You really need to visit Harley’s room to hear. It truly sounds wonderful and was designed by famed acoustician Art Noxon.

 

[Kingrex]

The threads devoted to the “Beyond turntables“ are certainly not about the same old products day in and out.

There was going to be a “Beyond speakers“ and a primer on room construction and acoustic treatment solutions in the same series. Those too would’ve been anything but the same old products day in and out.

There is much more out there. It is just not covered by the mainstream.

I do like a thread where someone explains something, like cartridge setup or possibly room design or treatment. Thats why I spend more time online than with a Mag.

I don't think I would walk a course of room build or treatments without professional assistance. It would be more a way to understand why they are doing what.

But the subject is more about equipment. Not education on how to get the most from the equipment.

The threads devoted to the “Beyond turntables“ are certainly not about the same old products day in and out.

There was going to be a “Beyond speakers“ and a primer on room construction and acoustic treatment solutions in the same series. Those too would’ve been anything but the same old products day in and out.

There is much more out there. It is just not covered by the mainstream.

I read forums much more than magazine for exactly this reason. I love a good informational thread. This thread has 0 value to me. Its 100% entertainment. In truth, its more a distraction.

I personally like DIY threads as I am very handy and hands on. And I'm not funded like others.

 

[Amir]

thank you for your replies and I can now put you on ignore as I doubt there is anything from you that would ever help me nor anyone else. Assuming you know everything when you have never been to any of these is really insane.
You seem to have a huge issue determining the difference of what you assume and what is reality.
I have been to Robert Harleys, I have been to Mike Lavignes, I have been to Karen Sumners, I have been to Marty Wax. I do know Roy Gregory.,I do know Jim Smith, I do know Stirling Trayle, I have been to CH Precision... and I could go on.
Audio requires you to listen and not to assume you know something from divining it from opinion without fact.
You can certainly have your opinion but you can't see that your opinion is just that YOUR opinion.
I cant disagree more with you on everything .

I have spend my time to describe why most audio reviews are useless and you can read my post about John Atkinson review (#168).

#79
------------------------------------------------------------
I think most Audio Magazines just spread wrong information . The audio world will be more clean/trusted without those wrong reviews.

Let me tell you Why?

1- Because most audio reviewers do not have a properly setup high performance audio system and thier shallow judgment is not trusted.
A trusted Judgment needs high performance reference audio system properly matched to new component.

2- Because most audio reviewers do not know about how to review a component (no care about amplifier/speaker matching, grounding scheme and voltage range and ...) .

3- Because most audio reviewers do not know about "Sound Quality" in depth , their reviews is just about Shallow sound property like "soundstage" , "bass" and ...

4- Because most audio magazines receive money for writing positive reviews. Many high performance equipments like CEC TL0 3.0 are not known in this industry but many low performance products have very good reviews.
------------------------------------------------------------

please share your idea about John Atkinson Review?

I also will share more examples (Reviews) from Robert Harley and I will describe why those reviews are useless.

 

[Lee]

I do like a thread where someone explains something, like cartridge setup or possibly room design or treatment. Thats why I spend more time online than with a Mag.

Not sure I understand this. TAS in almost every issue creates a sidebar article that explains newer technology. Writers often talk about room setup and turntable setup.

Also, “funded” just means that someone is getting paid for their expertise, not introducing bias.

 

[Lee]

I have spend my time to describe why most audio reviews are useless and you can read my post about John Atkinson review (#168).

#79
------------------------------------------------------------
I think most Audio Magazines just spread wrong information . The audio world will be more clean/trusted without those wrong reviews.

Let me tell you Why?

1- Because most audio reviewers do not have a properly setup high performance audio system and thier shallow judgment is not trusted.
A trusted Judgment needs high performance reference audio system properly matched to new component.

2- Because most audio reviewers do not know about how to review a component (no care about amplifier/speaker matching, grounding scheme and voltage range and ...) .

3- Because most audio reviewers do not know about "Sound Quality" in depth , their reviews is just about Shallow sound property like "soundstage" , "bass" and ...

4- Because most audio magazines receive money for writing positive reviews. Many high performance equipments like CEC TL0 3.0 are not known in this industry but many low performance products have very good reviews.
------------------------------------------------------------

please share your idea about John Atkinson Review?

I also will share more examples (Reviews) from Robert Harley and I will describe why those reviews are useless.

People recognize the lies embedded in your four points.

 

[Rt66indierock]

The IRS has a very in depth analysis of independence that anyone accepting long term free loans of equipment would have a difficult time passing. Why should there be some special definition for a reviewer?

In fact, the IRS has specific valuation regulations to determine if there is any income involved if the relationship if it is not at an arm's length.

Reviewers should be held to the same standards as other independent contractors.

Please cite these IRS Regulations or other IRS authority on the topic.

 

[Amir]

Amir,

I don’t think you should criticize a listening room simply based on photos. You really need to visit Harley’s room to hear. It truly sounds wonderful and was designed by famed acoustician Art Noxon.

My time is not unlimited but I will share more reviews from Robert Harley and I will describe why Robert Harley reviews are useless.

I have read Robert Harley Book (Complete Guide to High End Audio) and when I was young I have read many reviews from Robert Harley.

if you want to have good conversation please put your time and describe why you think those reviews are good/useful for audiophiles.

 

[Lee]

My time is not unlimited but I will share more reviews from Robert Harley and I will describe why Robert Harley reviews are useless.

I have read Robert Harley Book (Complete Guide to High End Audio) and when I was young I have read many reviews from Robert Harley.

if you want to have good conversation please put your time and describe why you think those reviews are good/useful for audiophiles.

I have learned not to waste my time with inexperienced folks like yourself.

 

[Amir]

I have learned not to waste my time with inexperienced folks like yourself.

It means you have no answer to my questions and you can not defend your Claims.

 

[Kingrex]

Not sure I understand this. TAS in almost every issue creates a sidebar article that explains newer technology. Writers often talk about room setup and turntable setup.

Also, “funded” just means that someone is getting paid for their expertise, not introducing bias.

Have you seen JR's new video on Tracking Angle about cartridge setup. That is informative. Telling me you set the VTA, SRA, tracking force at xxxx does not do much for me. Saying you placed the speakers almost on top of where the reference land and only had to adjust the xxxxx by yyyy is not telling me much either.

I mentioned to you in the past it would be nice to see more instructional content in TAS. I think when you were talking about TAS looking to grow online or YouTube content or something of the sort.
I liked Roberts story about his room build out. I still would never enter into building out a room without a design by a known professional. Its too big an investment to screw up. But it was fun to read. It was totally different content than equipment, but very related to our quest for better sound. I see too much performance left in a lot of gear. People need direction on how to bring it all together.

But non of this has anything to do with Long Term Loans. To that point I am coming around to the opinion I don't really care how they got it or how long they have had it. I agree their is a threshold of quality a reviewer has to have to do their job. I bought my Dartzeel for this reason. I needed a known SS amp that can resolve details to a level I need to do my work. I would have a hard time grain orienting wire or listening to a copper vs aluminum ground bar if all I had was my old Rogue Audio Tempest. Reviewers need good cable, sources, speakers, amps etc to do there jobs.

 

[Audio Addict]

Please cite these IRS Regulations or other IRS authority on the topic.

Take a look at IRC 274 and related regulations as a starting point. I worked in the insurance industry with independent agents and lots of taxed perks like company vehicles, gifts, company jet, incentive compensation, interest free loans, etc.

There is no specific on reviewers I am aware of but the thrust is anything is basically income unless the code / regulations instructs otherwise, IRC 61.

 

[Gregadd]

I just want to offer a defense of the late great Lloyd Walker and his turntable..An excellent product that met with widespread success and acclaim. The notion that he essentially bribed JV with the gift of a long term loan has no basis in fact.

 

[Rt66indierock]

Take a look at IRC 274 and related regulations as a starting point. I worked in the insurance industry with independent agents and lots of taxed perks like company vehicles, gifts, company jet, incentive compensation, interest free loans, etc.

There is no specific on reviewers I am aware of but the thrust is anything is basically income unless the code / regulations instructs otherwise, IRC 61.

You are on to something.