Magico M6 and Tube Amp?

[morricab]

Thats full Strawman , none of it was in isolation , Peter was running on Davids vast experience, it was not a shot in the dark, he already did all the vetting ...!

David knew the amp first, which is why he pushed Lamm (not the only valid choice but his choice) and then once Peter had a taste of a proper amp then found a fit with the speakers... Same thing with TimA...who already had Lamm hybrids but had to hear that the pure SET one was better...then he needed the speaker to get the best from...wait for it...the amp. Just because it wasn't Peter doing the homework doesn't make it any different the order of events.

 

[morricab]

Bonzo agreed , think about that, lack of understand match ..

By definition what was said is academic, or you can go ahead and try your favorite effects box 3 watter on your favorite apogee , while listening to recordings of your Ex at 60db , listening levels necessary to avoid the usual clipping ..

Never tried a 3 watt amp on an Apogee...not that I wouldn't at least experiment to see what happened... I was actually using an amp that was 280 watts into 4 ohms and over 400 watts into 2 ohms (Sphinx Project 14 mkIII) but let's not let the facts get in the way of you spinning a good yarn!

Once I decided SET amps were the way to go, it should be noted that I made a steady move away from hard(ish) to drive speakers (such as Apogees, Electrostats, Genesis...then Odeon bookshelf then Ref 3A, which are also very pretty easy to drive) towards easier and easier ones... culminating in 97dB Odeons and 98dB Hornings...and 100dB DIY...I walk the walk...

 

[PeterA]

Its deeper than this , Peter still has the lamms and not the original speakers the lamm could not drive ..

David already knew the amp for the load ..

Well, I had the Lamm M1.1s with the Magico and the Lamm ML2 with the horns. Both combinations were excellent, but I chose the ML2 SETS once I heard them on the Magicos and then contacted David for the horns that I had heard before at his place. I sent the M1.1 back to David, and I sold the Magicos.

 

[PeterA]

Thats full Strawman , none of it was in isolation , Peter was running on Davids vast experience, it was not a shot in the dark, he already did all the vetting ...!

Right, it was not in isolation. It was direct experience in Utah and in my own listening room. I was comparing the two amps on the speakers I had and taking into account what I heard in Utah. David's experience was a guide too. The ML2 and horns are a combination, but Brad's point is that I preferred the Lamm SET to the hybrid and made that choice first. The right speakers then followed. In the end, it all worked out.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Never tried a 3 watt amp on an Apogee...not that I wouldn't at least experiment to see what happened... I was actually using an amp that was 280 watts into 4 ohms and over 400 watts into 2 ohms (Sphinx Project 14 mkIII) but let's not let the facts get in the way of you spinning a good yarn!

Once I decided SET amps were the way to go, it should be noted that I made a steady move away from hard(ish) to drive speakers (such as Apogees, Electrostats, Genesis...then Odeon bookshelf then Ref 3A, which are also very pretty easy to drive) towards easier and easier ones... culminating in 97dB Odeons and 98dB Hornings...and 100dB DIY...I walk the walk...

Hahahaha, Your projected Irony is so unbecoming ..

Its academic Brad , indirectly proportional, you choose to use an under powered SET amp for it’s sound , so then had to find the loudspeakers ( load) best suited for it , its iso-diametrically the same ..

The obvious way is to find the speakers which meet your criteria , then amp for the load you can inverse , its the same , ok Mr walk the walk ..

In Peter’s case David selected the amp for the load , the Hybrid , Peter preferred the SET tone but not the load , David already knew Peter would be back ..

 

[morricab]

Hahahaha, Your projected Irony is so unbecoming ..

Its academic Brad , indirectly proportional, you choose to use an under powered SET amp for it’s sound , so then had to find the loudspeakers ( load) best suited for it , its iso-diametrically the same ..

The obvious way is to find the speakers which meet your criteria , then amp for the load you can inverse , its the same , ok Mr walk the walk ..

In Peter’s case David selected the amp for the load , the Hybrid , Peter preferred the SET tone but not the load , David already knew Peter would be back ..

First of all it’s INVERSELY proportional not indirectly, which doesn’t even make sense…

I didn’t have the 3 watt SET until MUCH after I started out my SET journey…started with 30 watt ones. Now I have something different again …a 20 watt single stage amp. So, chose the amp type and migrated to easier and easier to drive speakers until had ones that coukd allow a 3 watt amp to shine.

Your amp for load advocacy ignores the obvious problem with difficult loads… 1) you need poor sounding amps to drive them 2) more power doesn’t solve thermal compression issues.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Micro focused and silly as usual , more strawman arguments , explain thermal compression in a domestic setting ..

Lost chap ..

 

[caesar]

Would make for a great compare .....

My take - from non-direct compares are both will have great tone. CAT will be more linear and have better attack and dynamics. VAC will be more rounded. Both excellent

 

[tima]

David knew the amp first, which is why he pushed Lamm (not the only valid choice but his choice) and then once Peter had a taste of a proper amp then found a fit with the speakers... Same thing with TimA...who already had Lamm hybrids but had to hear that the pure SET one was better...then he needed the speaker to get the best from...wait for it...the amp. Just because it wasn't Peter doing the homework doesn't make it any different the order of events.

Yes. Brad, you have this right.

I was reviewing, using and owning Lamm components well before I knew David or Peter. Likewise for my appreciation of natural sound though I did not call it that.

 

[Argonaut]

Assimilation , Assimilation … Its A Thing ! Another thread Assimilated by the Karmeli collective …

 

[morricab]

Micro focused and silly as usual , more strawman arguments , explain thermal compression in a domestic setting ..

Lost chap ..

You know exactly what I mean, so why don’t you try tell me how it’s not important…

 

[PeterA]

Hello!

Does anybody have any experience using tube amplifiers to drive Magico M6 loudspeakers?

Let's look at this question in the original post from a different perspective. If one owns tube amplifiers, does anybody have experience driving Magico M6 loudspeakers? Some choose speakers first, others choose amplifiers first. Some consider only specific pairings.

My dealer asked Vladimir Lamm which speakers he would recommend for his SET amplifier. Ron, perhaps you should ask Alon Wolf what tube amplifier he recommends for his M6 speakers.

 

[morricab]

Let's look at this question in the original post from a different perspective. If one owns tube amplifiers, does anybody have experience driving Magico M6 loudspeakers? Some choose speakers first, others choose amplifiers first. Some consider only specific pairings.

My dealer asked Vladimir Lamm which speakers he would recommend for his SET amplifier. Ron, perhaps you should ask Alon Wolf what tube amplifier he recommends for his M6 speakers.

Alon's answer is likely, "none".

 

[sbnx]

I just read this whole thread. I am not sure I understand some of the back and forth.

The OP is what tube amp would work with an M6 (or really almost any Magico). I am not much of a tube person but I think we can all agree that is not going to be a simple SET. Maybe somethig with a pair of 211's could drive them but likely not on bombastic music at higher volumes. So we are left with high power push pull designs. There are several to choose from CAT, ARC, VAC all have high power amps. In fact, as someone pointed out Magico sets up with CAT at shows frequently. I believe the Lamm hybrid amp would drive Magico but I have not heard that combination.

 

[sbo6]

Why not try the AUDIO RESEARCH 330 M.
sounded very good on the S3 mk2 in munich .

I honestly havent heard a good sounding M6 yet.

Forget about large commercial speakers get a wiilson sasha or magico S3 mk2.
Most have integration issues

Wilson XVX .... all fall in the category " trophy sound '

Can you explain what you mean by "commercial speakers"? They are all consumer products, not commercial.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Can you explain what you mean by "commercial speakers"? They are all consumer products, not commercial.

English is not my native language
With commercial i mean also consumer products since i assume all speakers that are on the market are there to make a profit not a loss

 

[Dentdog]

Eduardo Delima Designed Audiopax M100 Class A1 SET tube amplifier. 100w Class A1 + 6 timbrelock option for perfect matching to Speaker.
I think if he was live now we had a good high power tube amplifier. Delima was my favorite audio designer.

6moons audio reviews: Audiopax Maggiore 100

I have used that amp for about five years, now on a pair of Evolution Acoustics MM3 speakers. And though I must admit to having less exposure to various amps, certainly in respect to most on this forum, I must say regarding tone they do excel. The MM3 has a sensitivity of 93db, and with a medium size room I don't lack for power.

 

[Charles S]

"With our usual definition of clipping, which is when the output's percentage of THD+noise reaches 1%, the VAC clipped at 235W into 8 ohms (23.7dBW, fig.4, footnote 1). However, less power was available into 4 ohms at 1% THD+N: 183W (19.6dBW, fig.5), though 370W was available at 3% THD+N (22.7dBW) and 410W at 10% THD+N (23.1dBW). "

The ARC 160 mono or VAC Statement 450 will not come close to adequately driving my XVX. I am sitting here listening to Abba with needles of my MC3500 pegged to about 300 watts continuous. Run off the 2-ohm tap the amps aren't even the least bit stressed. The MC3500 will do 500 watts continuous into 2, 4, or 8 ohms. It will easily drive an M6 to levels louder than you would care to hear.

It's disappointing but par for the course with tube manufacturers that they are vague in specifying the wattage output of their amps. I wouldn't even think of using an ARC amp with its 4 or 8 ohm taps on my XVX. It really has an average impedance of about 2.5 ohms. Tube life will be severely compromised using the 4-ohm tap and the amp will run hot.

Magicos and Wilsons will do better with SS amps, but I love the sound of my 3500's through my XVX. It's the most beautiful sound I have ever heard and with the 3500's I can easily reproduce live performance levels.

 

[Amir]

I have used that amp for about five years, now on a pair of Evolution Acoustics MM3 speakers. And though I must admit to having less exposure to various amps, certainly in respect to most on this forum, I must say regarding tone they do excel. The MM3 has a sensitivity of 93db, and with a medium size room I don't lack for power.

Please share photos of Audiopax M100 if you have it

Thank you

 

[Dentdog]

Please share photos of Audiopax M100 if you have it

Thank you

Please share photos of Audiopax M100 if you have it

Thank you

Here's the setup.