Magico M7 2023

[TDX]

One can easily measure with REW (for example) the frequency response or pitch. Are you saying that moving a speaker less than a millimeter will display a high frequency difference / pitch? Because I can tell you with utter confidence it won't.

It will, easily.

 

[LL21]

I'm very interested in the ideas behind subwoofers in this system as well ... I'm on the verge of trying two REL31s or two REL32s in my main system (28 ft x 21 ft room, 20 ft ceiling, with large openings into the adjacent rooms) with my M6 speakers

Look forward to hearing how that goes!

 

[LL21]

Not my recommendation these belong to the owner.
I would have recommended Gobel Divin Sovereign as I believe they are absolutely incredible and IMO nothing comes close

Thank you. Will have to find a way to hear the Sovereigns when I am ready to take this plunge.

 

[sbnx]

One can easily measure with REW (for example) the frequency response or pitch. Are you saying that moving a speaker less than a millimeter will display a high frequency difference / pitch? Because I can tell you with utter confidence it won't.

To quote one of the greats: "So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?"

 

[Ron Resnick]

sufficiently tall integrated bass towers with multiple large drivers and passive towers with multiple mid woofers effectively act like a swarm and reduce bass nodes in rooms by having appropriately separated sources of bass energy.

I understand what you're saying, and I defer to Duke Lejeune, but I don't think the swarm devotees like Duke and J.R. would agree with this very strongly, if at all.

I believe they find more value in lateral separation than in vertical separation.

 

[sbo6]

It will, easily.

Please show me.

 

[sbo6]

To quote one of the greats: "So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?"

Another great one - The proof is in the pudding!

 

[caesar]

I’ll answer your question this way since comparing things is not what I do. My reference is music not other products.
I never liked subs anywhere I ever heard them . Even back in the day with the IRS or Betas etc I always could hear that they just didn’t do what the speakers did on many levels . This means I was listening to items that were different.
The Gobel sub was the First time I did not experience that I could and others have as well integrated them where they just worked. The bass on Oliver’s speakers is on my opinion the best I have ever experienced in and home audio system . These subs are controlled from your tablet or phone and can do so many things including phase in 1 degree increments.
There is no hum like on many others and far more control.
Comparison mean very little as integration and work with experience make all the difference IMO

Hi Elliot,
Thanks for sharing this. Why do Gobel (along with Magico, wilson, etc., ) use subs instead of directly- coupled bass towers? thanks

PS. curious if these are marketing driven decisions, to allow customers first purchase the speaker and then to incrementally purchase expensive subs, instead of selling the ultimate solution at once, or if separate subs to provide a better sound

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I understand what you're saying, and I defer to Duke Lejeune, but I don't think the swarm devotees like Duke and J.R. would agree with this very strongly, if at all.

I believe they find more value in lateral separation than in vertical separation.

i think there is something to multiple bass drivers in multiple tall towers and also integrated as a single design.

-4- 15" drivers per side 7 feet tall, and -4- 11" drivers per side also 7 feet tall. maybe my room just happens to have magically even bass? or maybe it's just pretty good and the speaker design has enough spread and driver surface to finish the deal?

i think it's not only one thing but the spread of all those drivers is doing part of the job. and where it really seems to be special is when i drive it hard the bass stays linear and never congeals. no doubling or loss of focus. no overhang.

but who really knows why things like this happen?

i know what J.R. said when he was here, but maybe he says that to all the girls. i try not to take feedback too seriously.....either way. people say nice things.

as far as Duke it would be interesting to hear his views. my guess is that he might see the multiple large bass drivers and multiple tall towers as being effective at reducing bass nodes to a degree he could not predict.

btw; i deleted that post you quoted 30 seconds after i posted it. you cheated.

 

[Ron Resnick]

btw; i deleted that post you quoted 30 seconds after i posted it. you cheated.

No, Mike, I didn't cheat.

I must've hit reply before you deleted it. It took me a few minutes to draft my post. So when I published my post there was no way I could've known that you had deleted your post.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

No, Mike, I didn't cheat.

I must've hit reply before you deleted it. It took me a few minutes to draft my post. So when I published my post there was no way I could've known that you had deleted your post.

hummmm? you had to have had your finger on reply the second i posted it then. ok.

 

[sbo6]

i think there is something to multiple bass drivers in multiple tall towers and also integrated as a single design.

-4- 15" drivers per side 7 feet tall, and -4- 11" drivers per side also 7 feet tall. maybe my room just happens to have magically even bass? or maybe it's just pretty good and the speaker design has enough spread and driver surface to finish the deal?

i think it's not only one thing but the spread of all those drivers is doing part of the job. and where it really seems to be special is when i drive it hard the bass stays linear and never congeals. no doubling or loss of focus. no overhang.

but who really knows why things like this happen?

i know what J.R. said when he was here, but maybe he says that to all the girls. i try not to take feedback too seriously.....either way. people say nice things.

as far as Duke it would be interesting to hear his views. my guess is that he might see the multiple large bass drivers and multiple tall towers as being effective at reducing bass nodes to a degree he could not predict.

btw; i deleted that post you quoted 30 seconds after i posted it. you cheated.

Mike, I'm curious if you ever measured your room to see how linear your bass is? We all have had the experience to say, how can it get any better until we make a change, and it gets better. ;-)

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I'm curious if you ever measured your room to see how linear your bass is? We all have had the experience to say, how can it get any better until we make a change, and it gets better. ;-)

here ya go.

 

[sbo6]

here ya go.

Thank you. Subs would bring that rather large 15DB dip at 20 - 35Hz and smaller 60Hz dip right up. I bet you'd be shocked. Just a thought.

 

[Elliot G.]

Hi Elliot,
Thanks for sharing this. Why do Gobel (along with Magico, wilson, etc., ) use subs instead of directly- coupled bass towers? thanks

PS. curious if these are marketing driven decisions, to allow customers first purchase the speaker and then to incrementally purchase expensive subs, instead of selling the ultimate solution at once, or if separate subs to provide a better sound

Speakers do not need subs to work , perform and sound good. Not everyone wants or needs subs. Subs particularly our subs are large and costly.
Subs allow additional room effects and for additional spacial cues that one may or may not be able to get from the speakers.
They are not all the smae nor do they all perform equally so those other companies would have to answer for themselves
I can say that the placement of the speakers for imagining and center image are not always the best place for bass performance so subs allow for more flexibility. The overall effect of quality subs and integration of such is a much more spacious presentation with more 'you are there" sensation and space. On the proper recordings it is just amazing and what I mean by proper is recordings that have such information on them.

 

[Elliot G.]

Thank you. Will have to find a way to hear the Sovereigns when I am ready to take this plunge.

take a trip to Germany and listen you will never go back to what you have

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thank you. Subs would bring that rather large 15DB dip at 20 - 35Hz and smaller 60Hz dip right up. I bet you'd be shocked. Just a thought.

likely the phone mic is not really telling us much in that 20-35hz range range. and i do love my bass as it is. my room has the best bass and most integrated i have heard. YMMV.

on paper my sub towers are -3db @ 7hz and -6db @ 3hz. but who knows?

subs most likely would bring more grief than help. and the interface would be an issue and expensive. i don't need 'more' bass.

 

[Elliot G.]

I do not know if I can describe in words how and what I feel about most subs but I am willing to give it a shot.
Most subs do not blend with the speakers. Most subs introduce artifacts, hum, size and speed anomolies and sound different than the main speakers. One of my sensitiviites is that when I listen to most speakers the bass does not sound like it belongs to the same audio universe as the rest of the sound coming from the speakers. I have been feeling this way for a very long time and going back to Infinity's etc I alsways felt like that. There are multiple piece/tower/etc systems that the bass works well with the speakers but those systems as in adding subwoofers are far more complicated to set yup and get integrated so that the bass is not obvious on some or most of the music. When trying to integrate subs it is important to find the place and the adjustments that allow this to happen. What I am trying to say is if you can here the woofer or that the woofer's sound/signature does not match the speakers it just wont cut it for me. Someone playing a bass instrument sould not sound like its a different spacial and acoustic space than the rest of the music. I tried to explain this not sure I succeeded

 

[sbo6]

likely the phone mic is not really telling us much in that 20-35hz range range. and i do love my bass as it is. my room has the best bass and most integrated i have heard. YMMV.

on paper my sub towers are -3db @ 7hz and -6db @ 3hz. but who knows?

subs most likely would bring more grief than help. and the interface would be an issue and expensive. i don't need 'more' bass.

WRT phone mic, maybe, maybe not. Only one way to find out. ;-)

Also, I'm sure your towers can achieve ~10Hz, the question is whether you're getting that at your sweet spot location, again, only 1 way to find out.

WRT subs bringing grief, not if integrated effectively, and in your large room with large sub towers it greatly simplifies that effort (subs XO lower, room likely has less room severe) modes. I've heard subs many times with Arrakis in a room about your size and the benefit was not trivial, FWIW.

 

[sbo6]

Speakers do not need subs to work , perform and sound good. Not everyone wants or needs subs. Subs particularly our subs are large and costly.
Subs allow additional room effects and for additional spacial cues that one may or may not be able to get from the speakers.
They are not all the smae nor do they all perform equally so those other companies would have to answer for themselves
I can say that the placement of the speakers for imagining and center image are not always the best place for bass performance so subs allow for more flexibility. The overall effect of quality subs and integration of such is a much more spacious presentation with more 'you are there" sensation and space. On the proper recordings it is just amazing and what I mean by proper is recordings that have such information on them.

You left out one magnanimous detail - the room.

It's not so much about what the speakers can / cannot do, it's about linear tuneful bass working with the confines of our small spaces. In most situations, DSP and / or subs is the only way to truly achieve this. The other benefits from subs that you mention (space, you are there, etc), is a side and smaller benefit IME.