Magico M9

[PeterA]

Tango, More like one of the poles and the equator.

 

[Lagonda]

That is riding an elephant to catch a grasshopper.

For me, It is a lot more interesting to visit the North pole and South pole system of MikeL's and ddk's.

Maybe it’s time to visit gods own country for an audio pilgrimage Tang

 

[KeithR]

My lessons learned out of the Magic M 9 Project is, that the most of the competitors, like Tidal Assoluta, Gryphon Kodo, Avalon Tesseract, Gaebel Divin, VonSchweickert VR11 and so on do have a lot of headroom for incremental pricing with their next revision of their flagship models.

Comparing the current flagship model pricing with the flagship pricing over the last 20 years (yes, I know the effect of annual inflation), the price level already has taken some jumps in the last 3 to 5 years. Models like Gryphon Poseidon, Avalon Osiris, Infinity IRS, Wilson Audio Grandslam were in the +/- 100k market. Comparing for example Gryphon Poseidon and Kodo does underline, that the level of technical "innovation" falls back behind the level of investment into marketing for brand value to make the proper shift from Gryphon as "performance" driven High End brand into Gryphon becoming part of the High End "luxury" culture as the new growing market .

This makes it for me very difficult to judge a new product in the segment of Luxury High End with my still old fashioned performance driven parameters for High End Music Listening.

Exceptionally well said, thank you.

I predict a dozen more $500k- $750k speakers in the next five years.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That is riding an elephant to catch a grasshopper.

For me, It is a lot more interesting to visit the North pole and South pole system of MikeL's and ddk's.

that would be a happy day(s) for me.

 

[bonzo75]

Wilson Master Chronosonic + Subsonics versus Magico M9 + QSub-18s (or maybe future subwoofers more closely matching the design aesthetic of the M9) is quite a battle of the titans!

There is nothing yet that shows sonically these are remotely as good as a vintage tannoy, devore orangutan, apogee scintilla, or a Martin Logan summit. In terms of size and exclusivity, they are indeed titans

 

[Lagonda]

There is nothing yet that shows sonically these are remotely as good as a vintage tannoy, devore orangutan, apogee scintilla, or a Martin Logan summit. In terms of size and exclusivity, they are indeed titans

Summits ? You are stretching it Ked. At least say Summit X

 

[bonzo75]

They are a private company and should be allowed to do whatever it is they want to do and not be judged or criticized for what they do. GM is not designing speakers for us, they’re designing cars instead. Magico wasn’t even around 15 years ago and there are lots of happy music lovers who are now enjoying their fine products. I for one don’t need another company designing a $7500 speaker. I say leave them alone to do whatever they want to do.

The company is not being criticised at all. The followers who equate price to sonic quality especially without listening are.

the car market is very different from the hifi market. The car market is much more efficient, more buyers and sellers, many manufacturers, more information available for buyers.

Also, when someone in London buys a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, they have no delusion they are going to drive it to its optimal speeds on the London streets. They buy it for the exclusivity. However, in hifi people are capable of reporting that the component priced for exclusivity has the best sound ever, rather than, like a Ferrari owner in London, saying they can't drive it much but it is great to have it standing in the doorway or waiting at the lights in a flashing sports car.

 

[bonzo75]

'Stereo' once visited me here in Seattle, and it was not Jazzhead.

Without meeting jazzhead, how can you conclude that?

I have met Jazzhead, but never met Stereo, so I cannot conclude Jazzhead is not stereo.

 

[Jazzhead]

Without meeting jazzhead, how can you conclude that?

I have met Jazzhead, but never met Stereo, so I cannot conclude Jazzhead is not stereo.

Ah ,the twists and turns.... of a good whodunit !!

 

[bonzo75]

Exceptionally well said, thank you.

I predict a dozen more $500k- $750k speakers in the next five years.

Then the exclusivity will be lost, and the price will be 2 million to get noticed.

 

[Blackmorec]

These are small companies with small design departments. If they are designing a $750K speaker, they are not designing a $7,500 speaker.

Permit me to tell you how this works.
When designing a $7500 speaker, any developments in cabinets, drivers, magnets, cross-overs, vibration control etc. that exceed the target budget are not pursued, so ‘progress‘ is steady but certainly not groundbreaking

When designing state-of-the-art, cost no object, designers are free to dream and to try any technology they want, free of any financial constraints. In that way, new materials are used or developed, new components tried and evaluate, applications trialled and refined, new production techniques developed, all knowing that there’s going to be a return on the investment. All the knowledge and experience gained in developing and producing the SoTA speaker can now be used to advance the budget limited speakers of the range. Engineers and designers then apply their expertise and experience to figure out how to remove costs, downscale material usage, upscale or automate production processes, apply new materials and make low impact compromises in return for savings In order to apply ’similar’, less ambitious versions of designs to lower performance models. The cost-no-object versions literally move forward the state of the art. Trickle down is not a marketing illusion. It provides engineers with test benches to develop and refine ideas which can then be down scaled and cost reduced. We can think ourselves fortunate that there are individuals willing to pay huge sums of money for these designer’s ‘flights of fancy’

 

[bonzo75]

When designing state-of-the-art, cost no object, designers are free to dream and to try any technology they want, free of Any financial limitations. In that way, new materials are used or developed, new components tried and evaluate, applications trialled and refined, new production techniques developed, all knowing that there’s going to be a return on the investment. All the knowledge and experience gained in developing and producing the SoTA speaker can now be used to advance the budget limited speakers of the range. Engineers and designers apply their expertise to figure out how to remove costs, downscale material usage, upscale or automate production, apply new materials, make low impact compromises in return for savings and apply appreciated designs to lower performance versions. The cost-no-object versions literally move forward the state of the art. We can think ourselves fortunate that there are individuals willing to pay huge sums of money for these designer’s ‘flights of fancy’

You are describing Bell Labs and the US govt designing to do talkies and then improve the speaker - Western Electric. Indeed it was cost no object space research funding. And then Pioneer employing Bart Locanthi from Altec/JBL and giving him no holds barred budget to develop what would end up as TAD drivers. Big cinemas investing in RCA and Altec and WE. Or defense and radio globally investing a lot to develop tubes. There is no evidence this current crop of companies is doing what you say. Maybe 10 or more years later we will find out how it ended up. Till then there is always faith.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I really don't know understand what all of this fencing is about. It almost sounds like some of this discussion is trying to suggest that the more expensive the speaker is the worse it sounds.

All I can tell you is that on an absolute (not on a value adjusted) basis the Wilson Master Chronosonic + Master Subsonic is the best Wilson loudspeaker system I've ever heard, and the VSA Ultra 11 is the best VSA loudspeaker system I've ever heard, and the YG XV is the best YG loudspeaker system I have ever heard. If the listening room can host these big systems successfully what is there to argue about? They are going to sound great. Maybe not your particular ultimate cup of tea, but they are going to sound great.

I am willing to bet that the M9 will be the best Magico speaker system any of us has ever heard.

 

[bonzo75]

I really don't know understand what all of this fencing is about. It almost sounds like some of this discussion is trying to suggest that the more expensive the speaker is the worse it sounds.

All I can tell you is that on an absolute (not on a value adjusted) basis the Wilson Master Chronosonic + Master Subsonic is the best Wilson loudspeaker system I've ever heard, and the VSA Ultra 11 is the best VSA loudspeaker system I've ever heard, and the YG XV is the best YG loudspeaker system I have ever heard. If the listening room can host these big systems successfully what is there to argue about? They are going to sound great. Maybe not your particular ultimate cup of tea, but they are going to sound great.

I am willing to bet that the M9 will be the best Magico speaker system any of us has ever heard.

With regards to the bolded line (emphasis mine) it is not at all true. It says please don't call them Titans till you have heard them. You do a disservice to better speakers more easily affordable to users. It's good to know you have heard the Chronosonic at a show, but then you and I differ in our impression of other Wilson speakers and where we rate them. Btw, yes I do suggest extraordinarily high pricing is a marketing gimmick that is independent of sound

 

[bonzo75]

I am willing to bet that the M9 will be the best Magico speaker system any of us has ever heard.

errr, umm, not a high bar

 

[the sound of Tao]

Then the exclusivity will be lost, and the price will be 2 million to get noticed.

 

[dcathro]

Wilson Master Chronosonic + Subsonics versus Magico M9 + QSub-18s (or maybe future subwoofers more closely matching the design aesthetic of the M9) is quite a battle of the titans!

Why would you think the M9s would need subs? Twin 15"s not enough?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Then the exclusivity will be lost, and the price will be 2 million to get noticed.

Ked, it may also come down to where the market is going as well? I’d suggest that the future of the sota won’t be with the diminishing/dying off ranks of audiophiles as our life focus shifts into dementia and the towering pricepoint for sota leaves the stratosphere of our current dinasauring budgetary demographic.

Sota will be left just to the oligarchs and those miracles of the next age who can still afford London addresses. They will buy these speakers but then quality won’t be a requirement of sale... just opulence size and outrageous extremityness of design... and these towering states of art will play most loudly and thunderously in pimped out home theatres and the occasional bit of trip hip hop for guests.

Sota will be all about the great separation of all limits of affordability and little to do with any greater technical let alone musical goals like recreation of believable and natural scales of music... and maybe this is as it should be as our species delaminates itself and heads off to join the great choir invisible for those very last (insert digital/analogue options here) soaring greater tunes in the sky.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, it may also come down to where the market is going as well? I’d suggest that the future of the sota won’t be with the diminishing/dying off ranks of audiophiles as our life focus shifts into dementia and the towering pricepoint for sota leaves the stratosphere of our current dinasauring budgetary demographic.

Sota will be left just to the oligarchs and those miracles of the next age who can still afford London addresses. They will buy these speakers but then quality won’t be a requirement of sale... just opulence size and outrageous extremityness of design... and these towering states of art will play most loudly and thunderously in pimped out home theatres and the occasional bit of trip hip hop for guests.

Sota will be all about the great separation of all limits of affordability and little to do with any greater technical let alone musical goals like recreation of believable and natural scales of music... and maybe this is as it should be as our species delaminates itself and heads off to join the great choir invisible for those very last (insert digital/analogue options here) soaring greater tunes in the sky.

That is what I see happening, and it is fine if the meaning of Sota is redefined

The slight difference in what you describe is that those who buy in London Mayfair, are well aware of what they trade off wrt the countryside. The same cannot be said of audiophiles

 

[the sound of Tao]

Perhaps we will ultimately differentiate between “technical” Sota and then the Sota of the great age... so we will see systems included from more ages and those that captured the experience of music through the recorded art in ways that can’t really be measured.

Transcendence, honesty, authenticity and truth. Perhaps Sota has already been and hopefully continues to be. Leave the thunder of exciting sonics out and just let greater connection be our proof.

There is Sota around that we can afford... it’s just not all caught up in the noise of marketing.