Magico M9

[Bobvin]

I think it is important, too, to consider the passion of the designer... some have the success and resources to indulge their latest ideas, think about them, design them, refine them, scrap that idea for a better one that comes along. Ultimately they put a price tag on it they think will result in some degree of compensation for their efforts. Some of these products are not where the mfg makes money, but the products do perform wrt marketing and name recognition. There are likely designers out there who would beat the snot out of Alon Wolf or (Dave) Darrell Wilson who haven't the business acumen to have built successful companies allowing for the indulgence of their design passions.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Without meeting jazzhead, how can you conclude that?

I have met Jazzhead, but never met Stereo, so I cannot conclude Jazzhead is not stereo.

well......i have What's App texted with Jazzhead over a period of time and also had back channel communications with Stereo over time (not for some years now). so there is that. and i can say that Stereo in not a construct of Jazzhead.......unless Jazzhead is a 6 foot tall Western European French guy named Jean-Frederick and you are saying Jazzhead is not a construct of Stereo.

so between us i'd say when can move on from that whole idea.

 

[bonzo75]

well......i have What's App texted with Jazzhead over a period of time and also had back channel communications with Stereo over time (not for some years now). so there is that. and i can say that Stereo in not a construct of Jazzhead.......unless Jazzhead is a 6 foot tall French guy, and you are saying Jazzhead is not a construct of Stereo.

so between us i'd say when can move on from that whole idea.

Mike I was joking

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . It is sad that we are in a state where the ability for them to make money is based on what they price, rather than how the product sounds. . . .

Do you have any empirical evidence or high-end audio companies' business model financial analyses to prove this assertion?

 

[Alrainbow]

Or when they develop an antiviral for Covid-19... all these will be critical development points in human history .

Then one for Covid-20,21,22,23

Permit me to tell you how this works.
When designing a $7500 speaker, any developments in cabinets, drivers, magnets, cross-overs, vibration control etc. that exceed the target budget are not pursued, so ‘progress‘ is steady but certainly not groundbreaking

When designing state-of-the-art, cost no object, designers are free to dream and to try any technology they want, free of any financial constraints. In that way, new materials are used or developed, new components tried and evaluate, applications trialled and refined, new production techniques developed, all knowing that there’s going to be a return on the investment. All the knowledge and experience gained in developing and producing the SoTA speaker can now be used to advance the budget limited speakers of the range. Engineers and designers then apply their expertise and experience to figure out how to remove costs, downscale material usage, upscale or automate production processes, apply new materials and make low impact compromises in return for savings In order to apply ’similar’, less ambitious versions of designs to lower performance models. The cost-no-object versions literally move forward the state of the art. Trickle down is not a marketing illusion. It provides engineers with test benches to develop and refine ideas which can then be down scaled and cost reduced. We can think ourselves fortunate that there are individuals willing to pay huge sums of money for these designer’s ‘flights of fancy’

errr, umm, not a high bar

Yes nothing like a pr of devore ...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike I was joking

yes.....i know......but conspiracy theories are fun......

 

[Ron Resnick]

errr, umm, not a high bar

You forgot to conclude with "in my personal, subjective opinion."

 

[bonzo75]

You forgot to conclude with "in my personal, subjective opinion."

I need to state it only if I include someone else's opinion in my statement

 

[PeterA]

errr, umm, not a high bar

This is an incredible post, IMO, placed in a thread about a specific company, successful by any measure, that has just announced a new cost no object flagship design. Rather than celebrating the possibilities of technological advances or anything else positive, we get this. Why come here and post such a thing? Do vinyl guys ever go onto a Lampizator thread and write something so insulting about the entire brand?

This is the kind of stuff that turns what I once thought was a hobby for convivial fellowship and the helpful sharing of experiences into something I find quite distasteful. People are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the high end. And for me, this is one of the reasons.

 

[bonzo75]

People are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the high end. And for me, this is one of the reasons.

Great that you found your reason, we all have one

 

[Bobvin]

This is an incredible post, IMO, placed in a thread about a specific company, successful by any measure, that has just announced a new cost no object flagship design. Rather than celebrating the possibilities of technological advances or anything else positive, we get this. Why come here and post such a thing? Do vinyl guys ever go onto a Lampizator thread and write something so insulting about the entire brand?

This is the kind of stuff that turns what I once thought was a hobby for convivial fellowship and the helpful sharing of experiences into something I find quite distasteful. People are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the high end. And for me, this is one of the reasons.

Aw, come on Peter, we know the Bonz isn’t keen on many box speaker designs, and his comment is exceptionally mild compared to what I’ve read in other threads where people have hate for particular brands for whatever reason, and go into detail and spit all kinds of vitriol and venom.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . other threads where people have hate for particular brands for whatever reason, and go into detail and spit all kinds of vitriol and venom.

Please let Steve or a moderator or me know when you notice such posts. Thank you.

 

[howiebrou]

well......i have What's App texted with Jazzhead over a period of time and also had back channel communications with Stereo over time (not for some years now). so there is that. and i can say that Stereo in not a construct of Jazzhead.......unless Jazzhead is a 6 foot tall Western European French guy named Jean-Frederick and you are saying Jazzhead is not a construct of Stereo.

so between us i'd say when can move on from that whole idea.

Jazzhead is actually a 6ft 7 inch Glaswegian woman with a beard like Rhododendrons.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Aw, come on Peter, we know the Bonz isn’t keen on many box speaker designs, and his comment is exceptionally mild compared to what I’ve read in other threads where people have hate for particular brands for whatever reason, and go into detail and spit all kinds of vitriol and venom.

Some predators use an anaesthetic before taking out their prey. Ked doesn't bother with such niceties.

 

[bonzo75]

Aw, come on Peter, we know the Bonz isn’t keen on many box speaker designs, and his comment is exceptionally mild compared to what I’ve read in other threads where people have hate for particular brands for whatever reason, and go into detail and spit all kinds of vitriol and venom.

Thanks. It is also mild in light of the fact that I butted in because some posts made it seem as if this exclusive price category differentiated between the haves and the have not. I will be the first to admit this is true in terms of price and I wish I had their money. But it is a joke to think the haves and have not was positioned in terms of sonics. This thread takes away from the respect that people who have built sonically better systems without spending as much deserve. The misuse of the word titans especially made me see red. Those posts dishonestly tried to make it sound as if this was about sonics, not exclusivity

 

[KeithR]

Interestingly, the Wilson X1/Grand Slamm in 1994 to 2019 price for the XLF (not the XVX) works about to approx 4.5% annual inflation...$70K to $210K during that period of time. About 6% if you take it forward to the latest price of the XVX in 2020.

hifi doesn't follow inflation rates and those aren't close to what real inflation has been in the US since the 90s. CPI would be a 70% increase in prices. in the past 5-7 years, we've seen an explosion of prices to the upside that go well beyond that rate since 1995.

in fact, hifi is the only subsection of consumer electronics that is consistently higher over time. that means the market is shrinking and manufacturers are selling higher priced gear to fewer people as a business model or just a way to survive.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I don't even want subs on my M Pro's, so I can't imagine (unless the room has issues) that M9s would benefit from subs.

Why does your personal, subjective preference about your loudspeakers in your room with your system drive you to opine on what other audiophiles might seek based on their preferences about their loudspeakers in their rooms with their systems? I respectfully submit that a bit more imagination on your part may be in order.

 

[LL21]

hifi doesn't follow inflation rates and those aren't close to what real inflation has been in the US since the 90s. CPI would be a 70% increase in prices. in the past 5-7 years, we've seen an explosion of prices to the upside that go well beyond that rate since 1995.

in fact, hifi is the only subsection of consumer electronics that is consistently higher over time. that means the market is shrinking and manufacturers are selling higher priced gear to fewer people as a business model or just a way to survive.

Agree...real inflation vs the price inflation of this one particular luxury good benchmark are totally different. Interestingly, i tried the arithmetic going from 1994 - 2009 or so when the Alexandria S2 was released ($70K - $158K), and it works out to about 5.5% price inflation compounded. From 2009 - 2020 to the XVX ($158K - 330K) is around 6.5%, so definitely moving up in price inflation.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ok, my aspiring spend happy billionaire friend wants the best box spkrs. He's got a big enough house, and will spend on a fantastic source and amps too. No problem dropping $1m on a pair.
He quite likes tech claims and will be looking at the literature.
Magico M9 and their fantastic drivers and honeycomb sandwich cabinet.
Wilson Chronosonic WAMM and it's intricate steampunk drivers time alignment mechanism.
YG and Rockport, whatever their claim to fame is.
How is my friend to choose?

 

[jeff1225]

Permit me to tell you how this works.
When designing a $7500 speaker, any developments in cabinets, drivers, magnets, cross-overs, vibration control etc. that exceed the target budget are not pursued, so ‘progress‘ is steady but certainly not groundbreaking

When designing state-of-the-art, cost no object, designers are free to dream and to try any technology they want, free of any financial constraints. In that way, new materials are used or developed, new components tried and evaluate, applications trialled and refined, new production techniques developed, all knowing that there’s going to be a return on the investment. All the knowledge and experience gained in developing and producing the SoTA speaker can now be used to advance the budget limited speakers of the range. Engineers and designers then apply their expertise and experience to figure out how to remove costs, downscale material usage, upscale or automate production processes, apply new materials and make low impact compromises in return for savings In order to apply ’similar’, less ambitious versions of designs to lower performance models. The cost-no-object versions literally move forward the state of the art. Trickle down is not a marketing illusion. It provides engineers with test benches to develop and refine ideas which can then be down scaled and cost reduced. We can think ourselves fortunate that there are individuals willing to pay huge sums of money for these designer’s ‘flights of fancy’

Let me help you out. Wilson introduced a dome tweeter to their smaller and lower costing speakers. These sold extremely well, and ushered in a new Wilson sound. Eventually the top of the line Wilson’s received a dome tweeter (modified.) And thus you understand that is is much easier and more practical to trickle up innovation and trickle down.

Lastly I’ll help you understand something about engineering. It takes much greater skill and ingenuity to create innovation at a specific price point than cost no object. Example: Atlas vs Dragon.