Magico M9

caesar

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I think it is important, too, to consider the passion of the designer... some have the success and resources to indulge their latest ideas, think about them, design them, refine them, scrap that idea for a better one that comes along. Ultimately they put a price tag on it they think will result in some degree of compensation for their efforts. Some of these products are not where the mfg makes money, but the products do perform wrt marketing and name recognition. There are likely designers out there who would beat the snot out of Alon Wolf or (Dave) Darrell Wilson who haven't the business acumen to have built successful companies allowing for the indulgence of their design passions.
Maybe so. But they will not have the media acolytes calling their products BESTand using them as references as we do with Stereophile - Wilson and TAS - Magico.

And although an excellent designer may create a well-engineered product, will it match the learned taste of Wison and Magico that so many audiophiles consider as a "legitimate audiophile sound" as they do with Wilson and Magico?

Stereophile under John Wilson - Atkinson has been cultivating the Wilson sound as authentic for a generation. TAS has been calling the magico sound REAL, ABSOLUTE Sound, for the last decade. As a result, the stereophile reviewers mostly use wilsons as references while tAS guys primarily use magicos.

Ultimately, if a brand can't create traction with the fans and reviewers to ultimately get peopleto jump on the "bandwagon", the design is doomed to failure.

Alsyvox is an interesting experiment - seems like a fresh design and sounds excellent at shows.Will it catch fire?
 
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spiritofmusic

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Add Elac B5 to that list.
I went from one room w the KEF Muon...epic fail...to the Elac room. And after 30 mins of mesmerising music and in depth chat with the designer of the B5, the room broke into spontaneous applause.
 
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christoph

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in fact, hifi is the only subsection of consumer electronics that is consistently higher over time. that means the market is shrinking and manufacturers are selling higher priced gear to fewer people as a business model or just a way to survive.
This is IMHO not entirely the whole story...

The expensive stuff got extremely expensive and the cheap dreck got dirt cheap.
There is just no sensible quality for a sensible price middle cathegory anymore :eek:

So the extremely high priced stuff has huge margins and with the cheap stuff they sell huge amounts with little margins.
 
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caesar

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I have no doubt this new Magico will be have insane detail resolution. And paired with the right amps (NOT spectral! NOT CH circumcision!) will sound excellent with great audiophile recordings. But how many people enjoy audiophile recordings?

More importantly, will it sound good with streamed music or will streaming render this speaker unlistenable?
 

christoph

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Ok, my aspiring spend happy billionaire friend wants the best box spkrs. He's got a big enough house, and will spend on a fantastic source and amps too. No problem dropping $1m on a pair.
He quite likes tech claims and will be looking at the literature.
Magico M9 and their fantastic drivers and honeycomb sandwich cabinet.
Wilson Chronosonic WAMM and it's intricate steampunk drivers time alignment mechanism.
YG and Rockport, whatever their claim to fame is.
How is my friend to choose?
His agent tells him what to get AND gets it for him :p
 
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spiritofmusic

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It comes to something when the Rockport Arrakis is the affordable choice.
 

bonzo75

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This is IMHO not entirely the whole story...

The expensiv stuff got extremely expensive and the cheap dreck got dirt cheap.
There is just no sensible quality for a sensible price middle cathegory anymore :eek:

So the extremely high priced stuff has huge margins and with the cheap stuff they sell huge amounts with little margins.
Precisely. When asked to explain the price breakup of their favorite expensive components, most people don't know. They assume it is components, talent, design, demand. They have no idea how much is the distribution margin of one component vs another, the cost being passed down to create multiple units to distribute to shows and reviewers, the shipping to and fro, and just the signalling.
 

Alrainbow

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Magico is one
Thanks. It is also mild in light of the fact that I butted in because some posts made it seem as if this exclusive price category differentiated between the haves and the have not. I will be the first to admit this is true in terms of price and I wish I had their money. But it is a joke to think the haves and have not was positioned in terms of sonics. This thread takes away from the respect that people who have built sonically better systems without spending as much deserve. The misuse of the word titans especially made me see red. Those posts dishonestly tried to make it sound as if this was about sonics, not exclusivity

Magico is one of the Titans of the industry regardless of what you or i May think of the sonics ..

Its what it is ...!
 

spiritofmusic

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Ked preferring DIY horns to Magicos and laughing at their description as titans, is like a budding audiophile preferring Ked's commentaries and laughing at the description of Valin and RGregory as titans of reviewing.
 

bonzo75

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Magico is one



Magico is one of the Titans of the industry regardless of what you or i May think of the sonics ..

Its what it is ...!
By that logic, tannoy is much bigger. And many others. All big brands
 
Ked preferring DIY horns to Magicos and laughing at their description as titans, is like a budding audiophile preferring Ked's commentaries and laughing at the description of Valin and RGregory as titans of reviewing.
Huh? I don’t follow...
 

bonzo75

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Ked preferring DIY horns to Magicos and laughing at their description as titans, is like a budding audiophile preferring Ked's commentaries and laughing at the description of Valin and RGregory as titans of reviewing.
Thanks. But I didn't mention DIY horns yet. Just vintage tannoy and Devore orangutan, Martin Logans. I am not bringing automatic surface to air missiles to a snow ball fight
 

caesar

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Gentlemen,
To most people a $200 soundbar upgrade for their TV is "high-end" audio. Aren't we talking about level of degree here?

God bless Magico for pushing the boundaries! In a free society people can choose how to spend their money. And if these folks obtained their money legally, who the hell are we to dictate to them? Although Magico sonic signature may not match our personal imagination of "Real", it does for many.

I hope Magico sells hundreds of these!
 
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PeterA

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Ok, my aspiring spend happy billionaire friend wants the best box spkrs. He's got a big enough house, and will spend on a fantastic source and amps too. No problem dropping $1m on a pair.
He quite likes tech claims and will be looking at the literature.
Magico M9 and their fantastic drivers and honeycomb sandwich cabinet.
Wilson Chronosonic WAMM and it's intricate steampunk drivers time alignment mechanism.
YG and Rockport, whatever their claim to fame is.
How is my friend to choose?
Marc, he should choose one over the others the same way any one of us makes his choice between more pedestrian options: sound, service, aesthetics, reputation, utility, bragging rights, or whatever else is important to him.
 
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marty

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Maybe so. But they will not have the media acolytes calling their products BESTand using them as references as we do with Stereophile - Wilson and TAS - Magico.

And although an excellent designer may create a well-engineered product, will it match the learned taste of Wison and Magico that so many audiophiles consider as a "legitimate audiophile sound" as they do with Wilson and Magico?

Stereophile under John Wilson - Atkinson has been cultivating the Wilson sound as authentic for a generation. TAS has been calling the magico sound REAL, ABSOLUTE Sound, for the last decade. As a result, the stereophile reviewers mostly use wilsons as references while tAS guys primarily use magicos.

Ultimately, if a brand can't create traction with the fans and reviewers to ultimately get peopleto jump on the "bandwagon", the design is doomed to failure.

Alsyvox is an interesting experiment - seems like a fresh design and sounds excellent at shows.Will it catch fire?

This is an interesting musing and brings up a largely undiscussed issue. We all know what brands thrill audiophiles, but isn't the more relevant question, what speaker brands thrill the mastering and recording engineers? How many of the major uber engineers use Wilson's, Magico's or other SOA speaker contenders? The great Steve Hoffmann uses vintage '68 Tannoys! (https://www.psaudio.com/article/steve-hoffman-mastering-legend-and-audio-restoration-magician/). We all know that Bob Ludwig uses Eggleston Ivy's, which never received audiophile accolades (not necessarily a bad thing!). George Massenburg looks like he uses ATC monitors but I may be wrong. But wouldn't you think there would be a pair of Magicos, WAMM, XVX, or even a lowly pair of Alexx in some LA, NY or Nashville studio somewhere?? Hmmm......
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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So on this, one of the very most cost no objectest fora on the planet who will buy $750k speakers. The rarefied becomes ever more rare.

The great disconnect is a point about what is affordable. The boutique billionaire market aren’t hardly going to buy this stuff and then come back and report and debate on what they got. They aren’t audiophiles, they are billionaires. Their system may have been determined by their interior designer.

In terms of Sota performance my money is on an audiophile with less expensive speakers but good selection of components, well setup with good system infrastructure throughout over the efforts of a billionaire and their interior designer even with the advice of a good dealer. Gear like this may likely get showcase amps and then just as easily languish with a Lumin.
 

KeithR

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If you disagree with this then you will probably reply that Ferrari is the more analogous automobile business model to the high-end manufacturers to which you are referring. Ferrari certainly makes a much greater margin of profit on its cars than does Ford or Mercedes.

Maybe the most honest thing we can say is that we don't personally and factually know the actual economics and the business models of some of these high-end companies. If an audio company's business model has evolved over time in the direction you suggest -- that they are conscientiously ceasing to make lower-priced products and instead are seeking to sell four copies of a $500,000 component and achieve a successful business on that model, then I would say your "focus" point (at least with regard to such a particular company) is correct.
I don't understand comparing hifi to expensive cars. Ironic that Ferrari's entire lineup is less than 1/2 the price of this Magico *loudspeaker.* Ferrari doesn't make many cars, of course, either.

Magico is probably a $15mm company. Ferrari is a $4B company with almost $1B in R&D expense alone last year. Ferrari spends over $500mm per annum just on its F1 program to advance technology. The M9 R&D expense is probably < $1mm and I would guess the entire company's R&D is less than $1mm. So on a % of revenue basis, not even in the same zip code.

Ferrari also had $675mm of free cash flow last year- I'd be shocked if Magico had those FCF margins. It's really apples and oranges.
 
Alsyvox is an interesting experiment - seems like a fresh design and sounds excellent at shows.Will it catch fire?
I’d add Diesis, which I’ve heard. Look forward to hearing Alsyvox.

Which brings up the effective distribution networks of successful companies brand recognition. No doubt the reviewers and distribution networks go hand in hand. Stereophile won’t review if there isn’t at least some distribution of a brand, I think it is five dealers. So people read reviews and can visit a dealer to hear and see which has tremendous impact on a brand’s viability. Many audiophiles won’t purchase if they feel the resale is questionable, what does that say about their commitment to the best sound?

We all don’t have access to a dealer like Bob @ Rhapsody :cool: who’ll bring in the lesser known but amazing sounding gear. I for one, as part of my audiophile evolution, have been limited by my exposure to too little in way of brands/designs/approaches/philosophies. I have a lot of respect for Ron’s travels to hear different systems (though I do wonder if he’ll ever be able to describe the sound of his own rig which I think is mostly in packaging crates still.) ;)
 

Alrainbow

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By that logic, tannoy is much bigger. And many others. All big brands

Yea annoys (your Favorite past catch phrase ) i would consider them too, if we had this conversation 20 yrs ago , they been around forever , but in the past not today ...
 

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