My new ride !!
- Thread starter Hedgedrew66
- Start date
G'day from Down unda...
Nice one Hedge!
Ah! The Relentless monoblocks, my all time favourite in SS design. From the moment I first heard these driving the legendary ML Statements Evo-II's, there was definitely something special going on. Partnered with the Momentum preamp, the synergy was superb! Now the Relentless drive the Alsyvox ribbons and my good mate is using the CJ ART300's to drive his CLX's, which I'm currently using as well.
At the time, the Relentless were placed on their matching amplifier stands, not sure what the science is behind it but it sort of adds to the overall placement of the amplifiers in a more solid setting , if that makes sense. No need of using specific types of racking for that matter.
I didn't know that Dan D's company was in the process of a Relentless preamp... that should be a fantastic match, although the Momentum is still a mighty fine combination!
Was just wondering, don't know if there's logic behind it but after spending over half a million for the Wilson's, I would expect the LF to be more than adequate...? Why would you need to augment the LF by adding two subs? Is there something lacking in the main speakers?
I'm certainly not that keen on heavy bass in the first place so maybe I'm not used to adding any subs for whatever reason, plus depends on musical tastes.
What was your rationale behind the subs, and is it necessary to have two? Again at this level and price point, wouldn't just one be enough? Must be a huge room in that case. Or did I get it wrong...
Was also wondering with the added subs and on top the sheer LF dynamics the speakers are already capable of, is this level of LF even present on the recording to begin with?
Obviously you've got your reasons and I'm sure it's all for a good cause, to get closer to the music/ original recording.
Cheers mate, enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
Nice one Hedge!
Ah! The Relentless monoblocks, my all time favourite in SS design. From the moment I first heard these driving the legendary ML Statements Evo-II's, there was definitely something special going on. Partnered with the Momentum preamp, the synergy was superb! Now the Relentless drive the Alsyvox ribbons and my good mate is using the CJ ART300's to drive his CLX's, which I'm currently using as well.
At the time, the Relentless were placed on their matching amplifier stands, not sure what the science is behind it but it sort of adds to the overall placement of the amplifiers in a more solid setting , if that makes sense. No need of using specific types of racking for that matter.
I didn't know that Dan D's company was in the process of a Relentless preamp... that should be a fantastic match, although the Momentum is still a mighty fine combination!
Was just wondering, don't know if there's logic behind it but after spending over half a million for the Wilson's, I would expect the LF to be more than adequate...? Why would you need to augment the LF by adding two subs? Is there something lacking in the main speakers?
I'm certainly not that keen on heavy bass in the first place so maybe I'm not used to adding any subs for whatever reason, plus depends on musical tastes.
What was your rationale behind the subs, and is it necessary to have two? Again at this level and price point, wouldn't just one be enough? Must be a huge room in that case. Or did I get it wrong...
Was also wondering with the added subs and on top the sheer LF dynamics the speakers are already capable of, is this level of LF even present on the recording to begin with?
Obviously you've got your reasons and I'm sure it's all for a good cause, to get closer to the music/ original recording.
Cheers mate, enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
Yes I have infact. I don't want to derail this thread, especially with the OP's new system, which is fantastic. I will keep it as short as possible.
The ART amplifiers are mighty fine in every sense of the term "power amplifiers" and of course that CJ musicality, simply superb tubes at their finest!
These can be fitted with the choice of other output tubes, according to customer preference, as you already know.
The ART300's are designed around the KT150 topology and all its greatest. Not overpowering too much to cause over-bloom, which many would think it sounds great but actually overemphasised natural tones if not designed correctly. Jeff F of CJ has perfected the ART300s design based on various aspects of the KT150 tube. Apart from the added performance sonically and presentation wise, these amplifiers are also capable of delivering more Class A bias. Much higher current capacity as well, so with that added Class A bias they perform extra extra ordinary when driving superb speakers, such as highend panels and so forth...
Similarly the Relentless monoblocks have an outstanding Class A bias operation that is like no other. One type of amplification that I also do like very much if it was my second choice compared to the Relentless, are the Pass Labs XS series amplifiers, their Class A operation is right up there on par. Superb design by NP the legend himself.
Also, the ART300's have the ability to hold themselves extremely well, regardless at virtually any level, provided the speakers can take it. I've come across many so called highend contenders that simply run out of steam and distort the speakers after a while, although the first few minutes are ok but things tend to break up in terms of transient control and grip...
Apart from the Relentless monoblocks as my all time favourite SS design, CJ's ART300's are my number one in terms of all tube design. They didn't win amplifiers of the year for nothing.
Cheers mate, hope that helps.
Best, RJ
The ART amplifiers are mighty fine in every sense of the term "power amplifiers" and of course that CJ musicality, simply superb tubes at their finest!
These can be fitted with the choice of other output tubes, according to customer preference, as you already know.
The ART300's are designed around the KT150 topology and all its greatest. Not overpowering too much to cause over-bloom, which many would think it sounds great but actually overemphasised natural tones if not designed correctly. Jeff F of CJ has perfected the ART300s design based on various aspects of the KT150 tube. Apart from the added performance sonically and presentation wise, these amplifiers are also capable of delivering more Class A bias. Much higher current capacity as well, so with that added Class A bias they perform extra extra ordinary when driving superb speakers, such as highend panels and so forth...
Similarly the Relentless monoblocks have an outstanding Class A bias operation that is like no other. One type of amplification that I also do like very much if it was my second choice compared to the Relentless, are the Pass Labs XS series amplifiers, their Class A operation is right up there on par. Superb design by NP the legend himself.
Also, the ART300's have the ability to hold themselves extremely well, regardless at virtually any level, provided the speakers can take it. I've come across many so called highend contenders that simply run out of steam and distort the speakers after a while, although the first few minutes are ok but things tend to break up in terms of transient control and grip...
Apart from the Relentless monoblocks as my all time favourite SS design, CJ's ART300's are my number one in terms of all tube design. They didn't win amplifiers of the year for nothing.
Cheers mate, hope that helps.
Best, RJ
The subs definitely add depth and presence. You can lower absolute level on crossover if not huge bass fan. The speakers work great either way. !
Yes, I would think that the speakers work great either way, especially at this price point...!
Nonetheless, in my experience and from others, depth and presence are created by positioning the speakers. The soundstage depth and holographic 3D imaging presence... not sure how subs would contribute towards this, as they're actually enhancing/ boosting LF. However, maybe in terms of added weight and stronger presence in tonality, could definitely be enhanced by subs. Again, I thought that these particular Wilson's could already do just that, and for that matter any Wilson.
Anyway, as long as you're fully engaged and immersed with its sound reproduction, that's about all that matters. Have a good one,
RJ
Nonetheless, in my experience and from others, depth and presence are created by positioning the speakers. The soundstage depth and holographic 3D imaging presence... not sure how subs would contribute towards this, as they're actually enhancing/ boosting LF. However, maybe in terms of added weight and stronger presence in tonality, could definitely be enhanced by subs. Again, I thought that these particular Wilson's could already do just that, and for that matter any Wilson.
Anyway, as long as you're fully engaged and immersed with its sound reproduction, that's about all that matters. Have a good one,
RJ
I would suggest you do some reading on subwoofers....this might be a good place to begin
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/genesis-advanced-technologies-supersub-subwoofer.31098/
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/genesis-advanced-technologies-supersub-subwoofer.31098/
Thanks for the post IB, read through it, definitely some good insights on subs, no doubt.
Have plenty of experience in this area, during the past decades, and how far these sub sonic systems have been developed over the years. Great stuff indeed.
Whenever I visit my good mates place, it's an awe-inspiring experience to listen to his Infinity IRSV's, the legendary ML Statements Evolution II's, and now the much newer Alsyvox and his CLX's. Driven by the Relentless monoblocks and Momentums in one system and his CJ ART300's on the panels, especially the Alsyvox and CLX's, is just superb! It's the truth in sound and that's the purity aspect that I'm after, have always been passionate about it. So in conclusion I'm not one that is a sub woofer evangelist. Never will be, although once in those visits it's certainly nice to experience the "stage effect."
That sort of sound doesn't fully engage me, nor does it allow me to relax and be fully immersed with the music. OTOH, like I said before, no matter how many subs you want to use, the massive towers that are created to reproduce this stage effect, it's all well and good as long as your ears are enjoying it to the fullest. That's all that matters.
Once again, well done on the Wilson's to Hedge, and on the Relentless amplifiers, that is a fine combination. I know the sound and Relentless are superb. If it were my system, however I wouldn't use those subs, I'd rather enjoy those Wilson's just the way they are, in their purest form. Then again it's not my system is it? So, who am I to question...
Have a good one, RJ
Have plenty of experience in this area, during the past decades, and how far these sub sonic systems have been developed over the years. Great stuff indeed.
Whenever I visit my good mates place, it's an awe-inspiring experience to listen to his Infinity IRSV's, the legendary ML Statements Evolution II's, and now the much newer Alsyvox and his CLX's. Driven by the Relentless monoblocks and Momentums in one system and his CJ ART300's on the panels, especially the Alsyvox and CLX's, is just superb! It's the truth in sound and that's the purity aspect that I'm after, have always been passionate about it. So in conclusion I'm not one that is a sub woofer evangelist. Never will be, although once in those visits it's certainly nice to experience the "stage effect."
That sort of sound doesn't fully engage me, nor does it allow me to relax and be fully immersed with the music. OTOH, like I said before, no matter how many subs you want to use, the massive towers that are created to reproduce this stage effect, it's all well and good as long as your ears are enjoying it to the fullest. That's all that matters.
Once again, well done on the Wilson's to Hedge, and on the Relentless amplifiers, that is a fine combination. I know the sound and Relentless are superb. If it were my system, however I wouldn't use those subs, I'd rather enjoy those Wilson's just the way they are, in their purest form. Then again it's not my system is it? So, who am I to question...
Have a good one, RJ
I've been eyeing the Relentless for quite a while, ever since their introduction. Several have told me that they still have that Krell signature towards their sound or least a bit of it... Maybe so but installed in a highly revealing system, the Relentless are basically "Relentless!"
One could argue that with certain types of higher efficiency speakers, such amplification would be overkill. However, there's just something superbly extraordinary in its Class A operation that makes it excell and once you've heard these monoblocks it's extremely difficult to appreciate anything else, trust me I know!
Momentums came and went and I nearly closed on an offer on a stereo version but it's the Relentless drive that seeks my attention. That grip it has on full range stats is like no other! It's a bit difficult to explain, you really have to experience it in order to fully understand what these things can do and are capable of. When you are up close to one it just stops you in your tracks, grabs your attention and looks like the mother ship has just landed! Then when you see the other one.... lookout! The Relentless are here, get out of the way, we're talking some serious amplification here.
Very happy for Hedge, and hats off. Respect!
Do let us know how the sound and presentation unfolds and what your findings are along the way. Not sure if you've ordered the specific custom made stands for these but there's some science to it or this is what Dan D's team claims... I only heard them fitted with the stands so I cannot comment of any sound without the stands, other than supremely superb all the way!
Cheers mate, have a good one.
RJ
One could argue that with certain types of higher efficiency speakers, such amplification would be overkill. However, there's just something superbly extraordinary in its Class A operation that makes it excell and once you've heard these monoblocks it's extremely difficult to appreciate anything else, trust me I know!
Momentums came and went and I nearly closed on an offer on a stereo version but it's the Relentless drive that seeks my attention. That grip it has on full range stats is like no other! It's a bit difficult to explain, you really have to experience it in order to fully understand what these things can do and are capable of. When you are up close to one it just stops you in your tracks, grabs your attention and looks like the mother ship has just landed! Then when you see the other one.... lookout! The Relentless are here, get out of the way, we're talking some serious amplification here.
Very happy for Hedge, and hats off. Respect!
Do let us know how the sound and presentation unfolds and what your findings are along the way. Not sure if you've ordered the specific custom made stands for these but there's some science to it or this is what Dan D's team claims... I only heard them fitted with the stands so I cannot comment of any sound without the stands, other than supremely superb all the way!
Cheers mate, have a good one.
RJ
Wow...would love to know what you think of the Alsyvox compared to the Infinity and CLXs...particularly in regards to the band that all 3 play in (the Infinity will go much lower). Would you consider Infinity over the big Alsyvox 4-panel based on what you have heard or the other way around?
Lloyd mate,
I'm not too keen to reply to that on this thread as I don't want to hijack/ derail it...
I'll address that under my own tab under ML CLX's. Just listening to music now, once finished around 4am will reply then. Cheers mate
RJ
I'm not too keen to reply to that on this thread as I don't want to hijack/ derail it...
I'll address that under my own tab under ML CLX's. Just listening to music now, once finished around 4am will reply then. Cheers mate
RJ
Fantastic mate! Stunning indeed, the Relentless amps will serve exclusively well, nothing short of marvellous!
Sometime later on after things have settled in nicely, do let us know how you are enjoying the overall performance in sound reproduction.
Power, dynamics, soundstage, 3D effect, transient control, acceleration and decay, that sort of thing...
How are the speakers performing, and the disappearing act... this is all exciting stuff.
Perhaps I missed it but apart from the digital front based on your DCS stack, are you also using a TT there by any chance?
Nice one once again, exquisite system.
Cheers, woof to that!
RJ
Sometime later on after things have settled in nicely, do let us know how you are enjoying the overall performance in sound reproduction.
Power, dynamics, soundstage, 3D effect, transient control, acceleration and decay, that sort of thing...
How are the speakers performing, and the disappearing act... this is all exciting stuff.
Perhaps I missed it but apart from the digital front based on your DCS stack, are you also using a TT there by any chance?
Nice one once again, exquisite system.
Cheers, woof to that!
RJ
Could you describe the acoustic treatment so well integrated (hidden) in the panels of your listening room? What kind of material is there, the size, what frequencies it addresses, how it was designed, etc. Was it designed with this particular system in mind with room measurements used? It is very visually unintrusive. It is a beautiful room. Congratulations.
Thank you. No turntable. Going to start playing it more and more after this weekend. And get another ear to microtune if we need
Thank you. Unfortunately i did not keep track of exact bass and diffusion things in walls. Was in a heavy construction period of house. But i do want to get the specs myself and have room retested.
I fort it was the best place to have windows in a room if you cart have any at all, better than the sides.
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