Network Improvements and their Impact on Sound Quality

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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I know I'll need to try and listen for myself, but wonder, theoretically, what makes the most sense:

Option A:
Modem> Copper> Cisco 2960> Cop> MelcoS100>Cop> Gigafoil> Cop> eRegenA> Fiber> Server

Or, Option B:
Remove the Cisco switch

The idea of leaving the Cisco in, would be to isolate the lan connection to my general purpose computer on the Cisco. If I take the Cisco out, I'll need to connect the computer to one of the Melco ports.
 

hifimckinney

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2017
20
6
108
Here is one more confirmation that fiber isolation works and elevates the experience substantially. More definition and more presence of music now (because of calmer background).

What I did was just that I isolated the Ethernet on wall and connected first switch on my system with a fiber cable. I Ethernet switch already had SFP ports and I bought one media converter with SFP port and used exactly same SFP modules at both the ends (this is very important to have exactly same modules at both the ends).

I owe this finding to this forum so, thank you to the person whoever brought up the topic of fiber isolation.

So, this continued and yesterday, I replaced all Ethernet cabling by fiber and results are very satisfactory. I think for any system, this should be one of the basics that must be implemented mandatorily.

Lots of space and separation now in music. It is way more real compared to what it was with Ethernet.

Honestly, I was a non-believer in the beginning but now a total convert.

This is another tweak that is least talked about on internet while brings in maximum benefit.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
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So, this continued and yesterday, I replaced all Ethernet cabling by fiber and results are very satisfactory. I think for any system, this should be one of the basics that must be implemented mandatorily.

Lots of space and separation now in music. It is way more real compared to what it was with Ethernet.

Honestly, I was a non-believer in the beginning but now a total convert.

This is another tweak that is least talked about on internet while brings in maximum benefit.

ALL fibre will be to much in most systems.
You need some good copper Ethernet cables somwere for sure.
 
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hifimckinney

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2017
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ALL fibre will be to much in most systems.
You need some good copper Ethernet cables somwere for sure.
Yes, source and target sides have 6 inch to one foot Ethernet cable.

I don’t know what you meant by ‘too much’. I went all fiber only after seeing incremental benefits. Now system sounds unbelievably clean.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
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Yes, source and target sides have 6 inch to one foot Ethernet cable.

I don’t know what you meant by ‘too much’. I went all fiber only after seeing incremental benefits. Now system sounds unbelievably clean.

I was the same way hypnotized by what you call „unbelievably clean”
I learned over time what I am lacking and prefer today just „ believably clean” .
This is just right for my ears.
 

joaovieira

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2013
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ALL fibre will be to much in most systems.
You need some good copper Ethernet cables somwere for sure.
It was too much on my system.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
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I replaced the etherRegen with artel 2800 switch.Artel sounds more open and natural

This is good news and expected taking into account the price difference.
How much better it is than Ether Regen ?
Also Could you please try to compare with something else ?
like Melco s 100, Buffalo 2016, Jcat Telegartner M12 gold.
Just wanted to see where this switch is located in regards to SQ, as I think this is a great option.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
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one tip is to try with different lengths of the fiber cable
ex 10m or 15m to get a softer sound

also many of us tried optical attenuators of. 5 dB, 10 dB or 15dB to get different outcomes
with longer run SFPs (80km for 15m use)
this gives you simmilar kind of gain / loss in SQ.
 

Tubeman66

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2019
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but the disadvantage of attenuators is that you get more places for the laser to be broken at,
as it critical with clean fiber cables connectors
Then it is more advantageous with longer cable
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
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ALL fibre will be to much in most systems.
You need some good copper Ethernet cables somwere for sure.

2 weeks ago I was of this opinion, especially with the 2020 Sablon ethernet cable
Then the Finisars arrived.....Goodbye copper. Fiber direct into Extreme is actually such a big uptic in sonics I'm pinching myself...Micro detail is just another level. Soundstage width is another 12" to either side. Image is solid. Bass is deeper with more definition..the only consideration is there MIGHT be a slight loss in depth and layering. Still working to determine if its more true to the individual recording or and an actual fiber thing

Now I wonder about the StarTech nic that's in the Extreme....The StarTech sfp modules sound so bad I gotta think it might be the same with the input card....
Anyone trying different input cards??

Also I have to say, fiber attenuators sound bad IME, better to just get different lengths of cable
 
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dzdzdzln

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2017
19
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This is good news and expected taking into account the price difference.
How much better it is than Ether Regen ?
Also Could you please try to compare with something else ?
like Melco s 100, Buffalo 2016, Jcat Telegartner M12 gold.
Just wanted to see where this switch is located in regards to SQ, as I think this is a great option.
Maybe I.can compare with S100 later.The artel switch was recommend by my friend who use merging hapi.Artel is professional in clock and audio processing.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
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Maybe I.can compare with S100 later.The artel switch was recommend by my friend who use merging hapi.Artel is professional in clock and audio processing.

Thank you. Please let us know how this compares to s100
 

Brucemck2

Member Sponsor
May 10, 2010
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Maybe I.can compare with S100 later.The artel switch was recommend by my friend who use merging hapi.Artel is professional in clock and audio processing.
Can you post a link to the specific unit? They’ve got quite a few.
 

FredericV

Industry Expert
Jun 9, 2020
11
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We did borrow a SOtM switch for our most recent hifi show just before corona, and that resulted in some interesting discoveries:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/39032-sotm-snh-10g-sotm’s-first-network-switch/?do=findComment&comment=995827

In a nutshell:

1. the sNH-10G + integrated clock board makes a big difference to our ears, tested on the system we use to develop our 432 EVO MASTER with, a server which frequently wins awards from reviewers including best of show reports

2. but even more important: mod a mikrotik enterprise router with a custom DC inlet, and then use an Sbooster 12V supply to power it, we did A/B's on some customers in our DEV room, and it was very obvious

Just kill the noisy fans, replace by a much bigger one, leave the top open so it is mainly passive cooled, and modify the internal 12V brick to an external 12V input, so I can switch between the brick and the Sbooster:





The mikrotik is not a home router, but something made for the datacenter, having 13x gigabit and an insane packet rate which is way higher than what your home connection can sustain ;) This is running custom firewall rules, several VLAN's with different DHCP ranges, VPN, .... and unboxed you actually need to close this thing down security wise, as it's not designed to be a home route out of the box.

It takes some time to setup and there's a steep learning curve for most, but coming from a network security engineering & Linux background, this was trivial for me.

They also make the haplite, which has the same GUI and a simple wizard for home use, and it has firewall rules on by default, so it's secure, and this for a very low price, and it runs on a 5V USB mobile phone charger, so it can even be powered from a 5V USB power bank:



We usually take a 5V Sbooster BOTW to shows, as USB power banks sooner or later run out of battery charge, to power the haplite.

On shows, it's very reliable and does not draw much attention to it, and the wifi is very stable.
 
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Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
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At my place I use the fios router on a cust lps I had to make only for dhcp and non audio use. I then use a emo system network iso out of 1 port to my audio router. this router is used to feed all audio network connected devices.
Two ports are used there. One is for my music nas the second is to feed a giga speed network switch. It is powered by an lps
It feeds all audio network connected devices. naa , dac PCs , audio end points to feed Dacs. all is 1g rated shielded cat 7 shielded. now a note on shielded data cables. in truth if it’s not connected to grounded data ports it does not act as intended. but a shielded cat 7 has an individual shield rap on each pair of wires and one overall. This shield is Emi , RFI rated at shielding. It’s add on level of keeping noise noise low. I don’t run data wire next to any transformers or high power lines. if one has to be in near proximity cross at 90 degrees so least contact happens. if it is above or side by side of any large power devices a min of 8 feet is needed. I had an intermittent noise issue at my place. It turned out to be a router used for audio only and WiFi for control. I learned that 5 feet was not enough. I now have all data routers , WiFi and any RFI imitating devices more then 10 feet away.
I think we all have stories of failures and lessons learned. this is a very good thread ty for sharing all.
 

cat6man

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2013
890
995
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west of NYC, east of SF
i'd like to take a step back and see if any of the ubiquity X experts are still around.

i have a ubiquity X sfp edge router that i've inserted to isolate my music related connections from the rest of the house.
one cat6 cable goes from the edge router to either the fios router (which provides all dhcp) or the large netgear home router.
definitely a step up isolating the music from all the other activity in the house.

my next step was to try to further (galvanically) isolate the edgerouter from the home system by using the SFP eth5 port.
this however has been a spectacular failure as it seems not to connect somehow.

setup:
fios router ==> copper input to sonore opticalModule ==> fiber to ubiquity SFP on edgerouter X.

result: nada...........dashboard on edgerouter says port is active but no throughput

retest with fios router replaced by NAS..........same result, NAS not seen on network

is the connection/hw ok? i ran NAS ==>opticalModule==>SFP on netgear router
that works fine so fiber SFPs, fiber and opticalModule are all working.

so, what could be going on?
the SFP eth5 port is supposed to be a hot-insertion slot, and it does come up on the dashboard as activated........but no throughput and can't be pinged. i assume there should be no compatibility issue between a ubiquity edgerouter and a ubiquity SFP.

is there something about setting up or configuring eth5/SFP that needs to be done? maybe my edgerouterX is bad?
does it need a reset with SFP plugged in to set up properly?

any clues/advice would be greatly appreciated
 
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