New Kronos review!

[PeterA]

There has been some discussion about the new motor or motor controller of the Kronos which was introduced in Munich this year. There is supposedly a 35% improvement. This was mentioned in the TechDas thread but I think it should be discussed in a Kronos thread.

Did anyone hear it? What does a "35%" improvement actually mean? Is the motor new, the controller, or both? Does anyone have any details? Are existing tables upgradable and what is the cost?

The show reports have been very positive.

 

[MadFloyd]

There has been some discussion about the new motor or motor controller of the Kronos which was introduced in Munich this year. There is supposedly a 35% improvement. This was mentioned in the TechDas thread but I think it should be discussed in a Kronos thread.

Did anyone hear it? What does a "35%" improvement actually mean? Is the motor new, the controller, or both? Does anyone have any details? Are existing tables upgradable and what is the cost?

The show reports have been very positive.

I had a conversation with the designer related to this upgrade and the technology does sound impressive. He was very excited about the sonic improvements. From the Munich show photos I saw, I'm not sure that anyone was actually using the new motor controller.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I think 35% translates as "quite significant". As significant as an arm upgrade, who knows?
Spent some time talking to the designer at Munich, and he's describing the upgrade as all the benefits of batteries (ie isolating from noise of the grid) w/none of the disadvantages (high/varying inductiveness I believe).
Munich had a fair number of Air Force, Kronos and Dohmann tt's on display, and all were spectacular in their own right, but on the basis of all that I heard it, would be this new Kronos I'd like to have a steamy affair with, and marry/set up house with long term.
I'd really like to hear it on active isolation like a herzan. Tbh, at these exalted price levels, w/the undeniable physics of such devices, it's surely a no brainer.
Touraj seemed to be running his Vertere at Munich w/such a device, the Dohmann has a Minus K built into it's innards, maybe Air Force next?
Certainly Kronos couldn't not benefit from it's use?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Madfloyd, the Kronos in the Gobel room had the new device connected up.

 

[PeterA]

I think 35% translates as "quite significant". As significant as an arm upgrade, who knows?
Spent some time talking to the designer at Munich, and he's describing the upgrade as all the benefits of batteries (ie isolating from noise of the grid) w/none of the disadvantages (high/varying inductiveness I believe).
Munich had a fair number of Air Force, Kronos and Dohmann tt's on display, and all were spectacular in their own right, but on the basis of all that I heard it, would be this new Kronos I'd like to have a steamy affair with, and marry/set up house with long term.
I'd really like to hear it on active isolation like a herzan. Tbh, at these exalted price levels, w/the undeniable physics of such devices, it's surely a no brainer.
Touraj seemed to be running his Vertere at Munich w/such a device, the Dohmann has a Minus K built into it's innards, maybe Air Force next?
Certainly Kronos couldn't not benefit from it's use?

Mark, sounds like you really liked the Kronos. How do you think the belt drive Kronos will sound different from your table which has "direct rim drive" in terms of drive, energy, dynamics etc? Also, I thought you were hooked on linear tracking tonearms. Did any of the various Kronos tables at Munich have a linear tracker, or were they all pivoting arms? It seems like the Kronos in Munich did not display any of the weaknesses you have associated with belt drive and pivoting arms in the past. That would be high praise indeed. Perhaps in that sense, it is changing previous held notions about turntable typology.

 

[bonzo75]

Madfloyd, the Kronos in the Gobel room had the new device connected up.

You heard the Kronos in the Goebbel room with Scheherazade. the others you didn't. Could that have influenced opinion since you like that you like that symphony?

 

[number95]

I think 35% translates as "quite significant". As significant as an arm upgrade, who knows?
Spent some time talking to the designer at Munich, and he's describing the upgrade as all the benefits of batteries (ie isolating from noise of the grid) w/none of the disadvantages (high/varying inductiveness I believe).
Munich had a fair number of Air Force, Kronos and Dohmann tt's on display, and all were spectacular in their own right, but on the basis of all that I heard it, would be this new Kronos I'd like to have a steamy affair with, and marry/set up house with long term.
I'd really like to hear it on active isolation like a herzan. Tbh, at these exalted price levels, w/the undeniable physics of such devices, it's surely a no brainer.
Touraj seemed to be running his Vertere at Munich w/such a device, the Dohmann has a Minus K built into it's innards, maybe Air Force next?
Certainly Kronos couldn't not benefit from it's use?

I believe unless they are evaluated at the same room and same systems, it will be harder to assess their contributions to the sound, so directly you are comparing not decks but overall systems at different rooms. Tons of details here from tonearms/cartridges to cabling to amplification to speakers as well as room acoustics. That said two of my friends who were also visiting similar rooms at Munich reported they both preferred Techdas AF1 Premium over Kronos. Again, I think the same way, they have only compared overall systems and rooms.

 

[bonzo75]

I believe unless they are evaluated at the same room and same systems, it will be harder to assess their contributions to the sound, so directly you are comparing not decks but overall systems at different rooms. Tons of details here from tonearms/cartridges to cabling to amplification to speakers as well as room acoustics. That said two of my friends who were also visiting similar rooms at Munich reported they both preferred Techdas AF1 Premium over Kronos. Again, I think the same way, they have only compared overall systems and rooms.

Marc heard my Scheherazade LP 4th movement on of the Kronos, that's why

But I agree, impossible to compare. With TTs even in the same room, set up matters. Which is why DDk's room is so rare, and Detlof has both. DDK should sell tickets to go in

 

[Chris F]

I briefly talked to Louis Desjardins about it over dinner a few weeks ago.

It's two banks of super-capacitors which switch every 60 seconds to supply clean/stable/low impedance DC power to the motor controllers. Based off his Facebook posts I think it also acts as an upgraded base.

There is only one of them right now and it was in the Kronos/CH/Goebel room though my understanding is that it's very close to being a production item.

Here is a picture taken from Louis' Facebook:

 

[Argonaut]

A Most purposeful looking machine, in a Terminator kind of way! Will the new PSU come fitted as standard or an additional $€£ upgrade?

 

[bonzo75]

A Most purposeful looking machine, in a Terminator kind of way! Will the new PSU come fitted as standard or an additional $€£ upgrade?

The most terminator machine I saw on static display at Munich was the V.Y.G.E.R Indian

 

[Bruce B]

I think 35% translates as "quite significant". As significant as an arm upgrade, who knows?

If a new motor is a 35% improvement over the old one, then I would say the old motor was very poor to begin with!!

 

[steve williams]

If a new motor is a 35% improvement over the old one, then I would say the old motor was very poor to begin with!!

This is starting to remind me of the Verizon commercials on TV with Ricky Gervais where one company claims a 4X improvement but still not best

 

[Bruce B]

This is starting to remind me of the Verizon commercials on TV with Ricky Gervais where one company claims a 4X improvement but still not best

Love it!!!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mark, sounds like you really liked the Kronos. How do you think the belt drive Kronos will sound different from your table which has "direct rim drive" in terms of drive, energy, dynamics etc? Also, I thought you were hooked on linear tracking tonearms. Did any of the various Kronos tables at Munich have a linear tracker, or were they all pivoting arms? It seems like the Kronos in Munich did not display any of the weaknesses you have associated with belt drive and pivoting arms in the past. That would be high praise indeed. Perhaps in that sense, it is changing previous held notions about turntable typology.

Peter, first of all it was amazing to hear so many tt's sounding excellent at Munich, imho still streets ahead of digital, even 256dsd. Maybe even 512dsd.
I'm coming to the conclusion that things sound best when there is a holistic approach to engineering ie it's all in the execution, and after hearing stellar analog reproduction thru the Kronos, AF1 and 0.5 and the new Dohmann, I'm happy to soften/drop my claim that belt drive is inherently inferior to direct/rim drive etc.
These claims were never meant to be to be too rigid, it's just that in the few auditions that I did, my tt seemed to have a certain magic that I couldn't quite replicate in the more expensive belt drives that I auditioned alongside. And I still feel that rim drive and linear tracking give my lp reproduction an amazing synergy of propulsion and neutrality I don't hear very often.
But these three tt's sounded quite brilliant at Munich. It's a crying shame that the GP Monaco 2.5 wasn't there in a well set up system to get a flavour of DD.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, first of all it was amazing to hear so many tt's sounding excellent at Munich, imho still streets ahead of digital, even 256dsd. Maybe even 512dsd.
I'm coming to the conclusion that things sound best when there is a holistic approach to engineering ie it's all in the execution, and after hearing stellar analog reproduction thru the Kronos, AF1 and 0.5 and the new Dohmann, I'm happy to soften/drop my claim that belt drive is inherently inferior to direct/rim drive etc.
These claims were never meant to be to be too rigid, it's just that in the few auditions that I did, my tt seemed to have a certain magic that I couldn't quite replicate in the more expensive belt drives that I auditioned alongside. And I still feel that rim drive and linear tracking give my lp reproduction an amazing synergy of propulsion and neutrality I don't hear very often.
But these three tt's sounded quite brilliant at Munich. It's a crying shame that the GP Monaco 2.5 wasn't there in a well set up system to get a flavour of DD.

I do find it very interesting that two of the newest turntable brands that seem to be getting the most buzz are both belt drive designs: The Kronos and the TechDas brands. Were there many direct drive turntables being shown in Munich?

 

[bonzo75]

Peter, first of all it was amazing to hear so many tt's sounding excellent at Munich, imho still streets ahead of digital, even 256dsd. Maybe even 512dsd.
I'm coming to the conclusion that things sound best when there is a holistic approach to engineering ie it's all in the execution, and after hearing stellar analog reproduction thru the Kronos, AF1 and 0.5 and the new Dohmann, I'm happy to soften/drop my claim that belt drive is inherently inferior to direct/rim drive etc.
These claims were never meant to be to be too rigid, it's just that in the few auditions that I did, my tt seemed to have a certain magic that I couldn't quite replicate in the more expensive belt drives that I auditioned alongside. And I still feel that rim drive and linear tracking give my lp reproduction an amazing synergy of propulsion and neutrality I don't hear very often.
But these three tt's sounded quite brilliant at Munich. It's a crying shame that the GP Monaco 2.5 wasn't there in a well set up system to get a flavour of DD.

I really don't see how such calls can be made without the two being in the same room, especially at a hifi show like Munich. I understand the comparison with digital as it is the same rooms. But comparisons between belt and other designs and two different TT brands in totally different set ups?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, there weren't any. Perfect environment for the Monaco to show it's mojo. Then again, I've never heard of Mike's Wave Kinetics NVS DD being at a show.
Ked, not drawing any cut and dried opinions. Just that the sound in various rooms had various flavours, and the Kronos was in the rooms I preferred the best. That's as far as I would go.
KJ in London stock both. Certainly if I was in the market and could afford both, I'd want as much of an a-b comparison as practically possible.
But at this point I detect a hint more "soul" in the Kronos.
Does anyone have any views on the Mark Dohmann (of Continuum fame) tt? I heard it in the Ypsilon/Wilson room, and one other I think. Marvellous too, despite the Ypsilon cdp running it VERY close (imho the best digital I've ever experienced).

 

[MadFloyd]

Marc heard my Scheherazade LP 4th movement on of the Kronos, that's why

But I agree, impossible to compare. With TTs even in the same room, set up matters. Which is why DDk's room is so rare, and Detlof has both. DDK should sell tickets to go in

Which version of Scheherazade, Ked?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Madfloyd, doesn't matter what version. It was a blessed relief from all the elevator muzak/smooth pap played thruout the show.
What are the rooms scared of, that some dynamic music will send people for an early lunch?
Or is this music representative of what most of our fellow audiophiles are listening to?