New SME Flagship Model 60

[PeterA]

I would be very surprised not to find a DIN hidden at the back there.

You would consider a 60, Peter? Or are your SME days gone now with the MS?

I am not considering the new SME table. I’m curious to hear the it in a familiar system for sure and I am interested in seeing how it is received in the marketplace.

The Micro Seiki is a fundamentally different design approach and I have no plans to sell it.

 

[Tango]

I have a friend who contacted SME about getting this new turntable. He already has a model 30 and a model 30/12. His first request was to buy the new composite arm separately and they said they don’t sell it separately. He then said that if he gets the new turntable the first thing he wants to do is put his 9 inch magnesium model five arm on the new table to understand what the new turntable sounds like and they told him he can’t do that because the wire is continuous to the RCA outlet, so the arm is basically captive and does not encourage arm swaps.

It seems that this is an integrated package that discourages experimentation with alternative tonearms. If true, that’s an interesting approach for a table at this level and price point.

This is excellent. Listen from it as is. Listen more tweak less. Try less to out smart the designer. I should buy one.

 

[XV-1]

This is excellent. Listen from it as is. Listen more tweak less. Try less to out smart the designer. I should buy one.

SME has finally listened to DDK. Only use 3012-R tonearms with AS-2000 and no tweaking with cables, headshells, headshell wire.
Trust the designer.

Yes Tang, you should get one

 

[jfrech]

I am not considering the new SME table. I’m curious to hear the it in a familiar system for sure and I am interested in seeing how it is received in the marketplace.

The Micro Seiki is a fundamentally different design approach and I have no plans to sell it.

Peter you know I was always impressed with your SME30. I am curious about the comments on this one when people start to listen and compare. I'm very happy with my Grand Prix Audio, like you are with your MS.

Interesting it's 1/2 the price of the new Nagra.

 

[PeterA]

SME has finally listened to DDK. Only use 3012-R tonearms with AS-2000 and no tweaking with cables, headshells, headshell wire.
Trust the designer.

Yes Tang, you should get one

That is pretty funny. The beauty of the AS 2000 is that it is very flexible and you can use anywhere from 1 to 4 tonearms of different lengths and designs with it. You are free to experiment with any tonearm available. Nothing is captive and you can experiment to your heart’s delight. The fact that people tend to return to the vintage SME tonearm and SME cable simply means that that combination sounds the most natural to those listeners and SME designed an outstanding product all those years ago that is still competitive even superior today.

Since the Model 30, SME has always sold integrated turntable packages. This one may sound fantastic, but it does not offer flexibility. Perhaps their customer does not want it.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

That is pretty funny. The beauty of the AS 2000 is that it is very flexible and you can use anywhere from 1 to 4 tonearms of different lengths and designs with it. You are free to experiment with any tonearm available. Nothing is captive and you can experiment to your heart’s delight. The fact that people tend to return to the vintage SME tonearm and SME cable simply means that that combination sounds the most natural to those listeners and SME designed an outstanding product all those years ago that is still competitive even superior today.

Since the Model 30, SME has always sold integrated turntable packages. This one may sound fantastic, but it does not offer flexibility. Perhaps their customer does not want it.

It might be that SME are trying to build what they believe is technically the most competent platform on the market and to get to these lofty technical levels necessitates the use of this new arm together with their TT.

 

[microstrip]

That is pretty funny. The beauty of the AS 2000 is that it is very flexible and you can use anywhere from 1 to 4 tonearms of different lengths and designs with it. You are free to experiment with any tonearm available. Nothing is captive and you can experiment to your heart’s delight. The fact that people tend to return to the vintage SME tonearm and SME cable simply means that that combination sounds the most natural to those listeners and SME designed an outstanding product all those years ago that is still competitive even superior today.

Since the Model 30, SME has always sold integrated turntable packages. This one may sound fantastic, but it does not offer flexibility. Perhaps their customer does not want it.

Peter,

Curious that you appreciate flexibility in tonearm choice and little else. Why should we valuate so much the possibility of trying extremely different tonearms and be bounded to a tweakless static system?

Do you really believe that a few people in WBF preferring the SME 3012R is an indicator that the tonearm is "even superior"? I like the SME 3012 R, I still keep one, but I could easily nominate a few tonearms I prefer to it. There are plenty of used SME 3012R for sale and do not see people queing for them!

But you have a point - SME targets audiophiles that want reliable, precise, but simple and predictable great sounding vinyl.

 

[microstrip]

haha. Please read my post carefully parameters. Rumble….

best regards

Yes, wasn't the Oracle Delphy declared to be 634 times better than the Linn Sondek according to measurements?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Yes, wasn't the Oracle Delphy declared to be 634 times better than the Linn Sondek according to measurements?

Haha. I don’t know. What I do know is that wow and flutter on the SME 30 were already 0.01% this at the threshold of the hifi news measurement tools themselves. I also know the 30 had one of if not the lowest rumble measurements including through bearing. Now knowing SME’s philosophy on engineering excellence, my money would be on the 60 taking things even further. I also imagine the arm wand resonance was something they were trying to improve even further than on the V magnesium tube. I bet they have achieved it with their composite tube.
I dunno - there is something reassuring about SME’s philosophy. If I were putting down this level of cash, the 60 would be high if not top of my list.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

Curious that you appreciate flexibility in tonearm choice and little else. Why should we valuate so much the possibility of trying extremely different tonearms and be bounded to a tweakless static system?

Do you really believe that a few people in WBF preferring the SME 3012R is an indicator that the tonearm is "even superior"? I like the SME 3012 R, I still keep one, but I could easily nominate a few tonearms I prefer to it. There are plenty of used SME 3012R for sale and do not see people queing for them!

But you have a point - SME targets audiophiles that want reliable, precise, but simple and predictable great sounding vinyl.

Yeah WBF is not an indication of anything Francisco. A few people preferring one arm doesn’t mean anything. I never said it was superior, just some people think it is superior. It is certainly a quality product that was made years ago and still in use by many happy customers.

There are so many 3012 tonearms that were made that you can find them and buy them and that’s why the price is low.

I enjoyed my two SME turntables for many many years, but very different sounding from what I prefer now. Great products that do not need much marketing. I remember you telling me that people were buying used model 30 turntables and putting the new SAT arm on it. I never encountered that combination nor saw one ever discussed. You seemed quite impressed by the combination, thoughI don’t remember any reports from you about what it sounded like.

 

[microstrip]

Yeah WBF is not an indication of anything Francisco. A few people preferring one arm doesn’t mean anything. I never said it was superior, just some people think it is superior. It is certainly a quality product that was made years ago and still in use by many happy customers.

Fully agree.

There are so many 3012 tonearms that were made that you can find them and buy them and that’s why the price is low.

No, I would not say that are many. Demand is low, we see the same for long time for sale at the usual used sales sites. I had to sell my extra ones at a discount. The main interest is from collectors, not audiophiles - some want mint boxes and papers and will not take them out of the box. A sealed box is worth an extra!

However, since they are not sold separately anymore, used SME V's are in high demand.

I enjoyed my two SME turntables for many many years, but very different sounding from what I prefer now. Great products that do not need much marketing.
I remember you telling me that people were buying used model 30 turntables and putting the new SAT arm on it. I never encountered that combination nor saw one ever discussed. You seemed quite impressed by the combination, thoughI don’t remember any reports from you about what it sounded like.

I reported that people had such combination - one of my past SME30's has such tonearm, but I never listened to it. I listened to the SAT many times and it impressed me lot, but never in my system. Seldom I report on vinyl - IMHO there are too many variables to consider, reducing the real interest of such opinions.

SAT designed and manufactured an arm board for the SME30 - they showed complete CAD designs of it, something that created interest in the combo.

 

[PeterA]

No, I would not say that are many. Demand is low, we see the same for long time for sale at the usual used sales sites. I had to sell my extra ones at a discount. The main interest is from collectors, not audiophiles - some want mint boxes and papers and will not take them out of the box.

However, since they are not sold separately anymore, used SME V's are in high demand.

We disagree on the first part. And of course good condition brings higher prices. The six people I know who use 3012R do it for sound, not collecting. The better the condition, the higher the price. I bought two that were NOS built for Japan for my Japanese Micro. I paid extra and did not care about box condition and can’t read the manuals.

Sure used Vs will be in demand as they are no longer sold separately, and they represent decent performance for price, but I don’t know anyone who wants one. It will be interesting to see if SME discontinues them on the lower tables. I suspect the new composite arm costs less to make. We may see lower versions for the other tables. I would love to compare it to the new one.

 

[djsina2]

What does this mean? It’s a SME branded as MS? I have a Japanese one and a standard one and I can’t see a difference.

I bought two that were NOS built for Japan for my Japanese Micro. I paid extra and did not care about box condition and can’t read the manuals.

 

[microstrip]

We disagree on the first part. And of course good condition brings higher prices. The six people I know who use 3012R do it for sound, not collecting. The better the condition, the higher the price. I bought two that were NOS built for Japan for my Japanese Micro. I paid extra and did not care about box condition and can’t read the manuals.

Well, I speak from my experience buying them and trying to sell them and following audiomarkt, ebay and audiogon. Fortunately I could get original manuals from the UK, but the SME 3012R manuals are freely available at the vinylengine - I have contributed with a few to this great site.
See them at https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sme/3012.shtml

 

[PeterA]

What does this mean? It’s a SME branded as MS? I have a Japanese one and a standard one and I can’t see a difference.

I do not think there is any difference. The color of the arm lift matches, and I thought it was kind of cool to have them with Japanese manuals because the table might originally have had something similar. Just a personal thing. No big deal.

 

[PeterA]

Well, I speak from my experience buying them and trying to sell them and following audiomarkt, ebay and audiogon. Fortunately I could get original manuals from the UK, but the SME 3012R manuals are freely available at the vinylengine - I have contributed with a few to this great site.
See them at https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sme/3012.shtml

I copied my English manual. No big deal really. I already had a different 3012R which I sold to a happy buyer. He just bought A Micro SX 8000 Ii also based on hearing my table arm combination.

 

[mtemur]

SME 60 turntable playing in Avant-Garde room. sound was great

 

[Tango]

View attachment 93167
SME 60 turntable playing in Avant-Garde room. sound was great

What kind of drive it has?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What kind of drive it has?

it's a belt drive, but don't know any details about it's exact implementation.....what kind and how many motors? type of belt? etc?

 

[bazelio]

it's a belt drive, but don't know any details about it's exact implementation.....what kind and how many motors? type of belt? etc?

Belt drive. AC motor (!) - one motor.