Ron’s New System

[cjfrbw]

Do you have any personal experience comparing Jadis JA200 (10 x EL34, Class A, push-pull) versus MastersounD PF100 (4 x 845, Class A, PSET)?

I do not. I do like the CAT tubed amps, but not better than various single ended guys. I also like VIVA amps I have heard at shows. I say like, because nobody can hear everything with intimate extended experience.

I did like that last recording best of all you made with the Jadis, however, (that is through the murk of various internet and computer compressions through headphones). A bit higher on the ready available emotion scale.

A couple of Fremer’s descriptions from his Wavac 833 review seem to apply to the single ended DHT triode babies of the brand, too, that I have on hand.

To paraphrase, he wondered if Wavac did everything right and everything else was wrong, or was just more fun.

He also commented on the flute on ‘California Dreaming’ becoming a marked presence in its own right, rather than a background accompaniment. The question is, was the intent of the piece to have that flute stand out in full blooded presence, or was it an artifact of the amplifier that was merely pleasing?

I guess that would require the usual bloody war between the factions.

The 15 watt Wavac on the 75 inch ribbons sounds organic and lit up in a way that the various fleas and other amps aren’t.

However, I think that the ribbons with their flat impedance sound good to excellent with everything I have used with them, tubed or solid state, but there are those amps I prefer. There are no ‘bad’ choices I have heard so far.

 

[Argonaut]

Everyone is telling Ron everything all at once. My hopes is that he just remains open to trying different things so he can find what he really likes... and can avoid the paranoia of thinking he NEEDS tons of watts to get it. I

In reality most responders to this thread have tended toward the lower wattage spectrum of amplification rather than the higher with their recommendations … I think that you will find upon revision that *More Power Not Less* has been something of a self inflicted nervosa that Ron had created for himself.

 

[cjfrbw]

In reality most responders to this thread have tended toward the lower wattage spectrum of amplification rather than the higher with their recommendations … I think that you will find upon revision that *More Power Not Less* has been something of a self inflicted nervosa that Ron had created for himself.

LOL! I am not hearty enough or doughty enough to attempt conversions any more, I'll leave that the to more intrepid and aggressive interventionists. Also, a lot of things work and depend always on implementation.

Ron could be absolutely correct with what he hears in his room, and everybody else is wrong. I just think there are potentially promising variants to explore.

Everybody fiddle faddles eventually.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I do not. I do like the CAT tubed amps, but not better than various single ended guys. I also like VIVA amps I have heard at shows. I say like, because nobody can hear everything with intimate extended experience.

I did like that last recording best of all you made with the Jadis, however, (that is through the murk of various internet and computer compressions through headphones). A bit higher on the ready available emotion scale.

A couple of Fremer’s descriptions from his Wavac 833 review seem to apply to the single ended DHT triode babies of the brand, too, that I have on hand.

To paraphrase, he wondered if Wavac did everything right and everything else was wrong, or was just more fun.

He also commented on the flute on ‘California Dreaming’ becoming a marked presence in its own right, rather than a background accompaniment. The question is, was the intent of the piece to have that flute stand out in full blooded presence, or was it an artifact of the amplifier that was merely pleasing?

I guess that would require the usual bloody war between the factions.

The 15 watt Wavac on the 75 inch ribbons sounds organic and lit up in a way that the various fleas and other amps aren’t.

However, I think that the ribbons with their flat impedance sound good to excellent with everything I have used with them, tubed or solid state, but there are those amps I prefer. There are no ‘bad’ choices I have heard so far.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I have to concede that, having been skeptical that 80 watts would work on the Pendragons, about which I was completely wrong, I am now, similarly, skeptical that 50 watts or less could work on the Pendragons.

In the 20 watt range the Viva Aurora is probably my favorite SET of all time. In the 50 watt range I would select the Absolare SET.

But it is an open question to me whether there is something about the Jadis design that affords the Jadis Class A amps a "weightiness" that is unique. In other words, even if something like an Absolare SET PSET or a Wavac 833 offered a purer, more "magical" midrange than a JA200, I would not want to lose the weightiness of the JA200 if the Absolare SET or an 833 did not also retain the weightiness of the Jadis.

In other words, the weightiness I am hearing from the Jadis in the upper bass to lower midrange is more important to me than is the midrange purity of an SET or PSET.

Unfortunately, there is no way to figure this out with buying like four more amplifiers!

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think that you will find upon revision that *More Power Not Less* has been something of a self inflicted nervosa that Ron had created for himself.

This is partially a fair criticism. But, to be accurate, my philosophy has always been that I prefer lower power to higher power, except when high power is truly necessary, and in that situation (I am thinking Magnepan here), the higher power the better.

 

[cjfrbw]

I would say Wavac is a go to in single ended paradigm for tonal weightiness, and works particularly well in the upper bass and lower to mid midrange where, for instance, vinyl stands out. I prefer the Wavacs on vinyl for this reason.

 

[LL21]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I have to concede that, having been skeptical that 80 watts would work on the Pendragons, about which I was completely wrong, I am now, similarly, skeptical that 50 watts or less could work on the Pendragons.

In the 20 watt range the Viva Aurora is probably my favorite SET of all time. In the 50 watt range I would select the Absolare SET.

But it is an open question to me whether there is something about the Jadis design that affords the Jadis Class A amps a "weightiness" that is unique. In other words, even if something like an Absolare SET PSET or a Wavac 833 offered a purer, more "magical" midrange than a JA200, I would not want to lose the weightiness of the JA200 if the Absolare SET or an 833 did not also retain the weightiness of the Jadis.

In other words, the weightiness I am hearing from the Jadis in the upper bass to lower midrange is more important to me than is the midrange purity of an SET or PSET.

Unfortunately, there is no way to figure this out with buying like four more amplifiers!

Fascinating, Ron. You open up a new world in the 80W-100W midrange-magic tube range.

- Jadis JA200
- Wavac 833
- Zanden 9600 Mk2
- Kronzilla DX

I have spoken with a few people who know the 833/owned it for many years...midrange magic was definitely a calling card. That said, same has been said for Zandens 9600 which I have heard, which Audiocrack owns/owned and Marty has waxed lyrical about in the past. Will be interesting to see where you end up.

 

[Argonaut]

This is partially a fair criticism. But, to be accurate, my philosophy has always been that I prefer lower power to higher power, except when high power is truly necessary, and in that situation (I am thinking Magnepan here), the higher power the better.

The point was neither inaccurate nor criticism Ron … Simply a matter of record .

As for “ I'll leave that the to more intrepid and aggressive interventionists.” Well … I shall leave that for the more intrepid and aggressive interventionist !

 

[microstrip]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I have to concede that, having been skeptical that 80 watts would work on the Pendragons, about which I was completely wrong, I am now, similarly, skeptical that 50 watts or less could work on the Pendragons.

In the 20 watt range the Viva Aurora is probably my favorite SET of all time. In the 50 watt range I would select the Absolare SET.

But it is an open question to me whether there is something about the Jadis design that affords the Jadis Class A amps a "weightiness" that is unique. In other words, even if something like an Absolare SET PSET or a Wavac 833 offered a purer, more "magical" midrange than a JA200, I would not want to lose the weightiness of the JA200 if the Absolare SET or an 833 did not also retain the weightiness of the Jadis.

In other words, the weightiness I am hearing from the Jadis in the upper bass to lower midrange is more important to me than is the midrange purity of an SET or PSET.

Unfortunately, there is no way to figure this out with buying like four more amplifiers!

A comment quoted from a Martin Colloms 1997 Stereophile review.

"Working with my personal ranking order for power amplifiers, until now I've placed (with minor caveats) the Conrad-Johnson Premier Eight A monoblock (non-triode) at the top of the tree, especially for its vibrant tonality and lush transparency in the mid-treble, in addition to its great dynamic range, average-to-good load tolerance, and fine, tuneful bass. Once the Premier Eight A has been experienced in an appropriate setting, one is forced to question the fuss over little SE amplifiers".

IMO in order to know you have to try all the amplifiers. More than than power, considering that the active crossover of your speakers is at 200 Hz you have to get an amplifier that matches the sound characteristics of the class AB solid state that drives your towers, that are still playing in the low midrange.

I have owned the Jadis JA80 and still own the conrad johnson ART . In terms of weightiness in the full range of the spectra - my only experience - the conrad johnson wins. Curious that conrad johnson reached a status in Europe that they do not seem to have in the US.

 

[microstrip]

I would say Wavac is a go to in single ended paradigm for tonal weightiness, and works particularly well in the upper bass and lower to mid midrange where, for instance, vinyl stands out. I prefer the Wavacs on vinyl for this reason.

Which Wavac are you addressing? I was offered this week a beautiful pair of Wavac HE 833v2 for a nice price, but was able to resist!

 

[LL21]

Which Wavac are you addressing? I was offered this week a beautiful pair of Wavac HE 833v2 for a nice price, but was able to resist!

The 4-box version is the one a friend of mine used to own for many, many years. There is also the ultimate 6-box version.

 

[LL21]

A comment quoted from a Martin Colloms 1997 Stereophile review.

"Working with my personal ranking order for power amplifiers, until now I've placed (with minor caveats) the Conrad-Johnson Premier Eight A monoblock (non-triode) at the top of the tree, especially for its vibrant tonality and lush transparency in the mid-treble, in addition to its great dynamic range, average-to-good load tolerance, and fine, tuneful bass. Once the Premier Eight A has been experienced in an appropriate setting, one is forced to question the fuss over little SE amplifiers".

IMO in order to know you have to try all the amplifiers. More than than power, considering that the active crossover of your speakers is at 200 Hz you have to get an amplifier that matches the sound characteristics of the class AB solid state that drives your towers, that are still playing in the low midrange.

I have owned the Jadis JA80 and still own the conrad johnson ART . In terms of weightiness in the full range of the spectra - my only experience - the conrad johnson wins. Curious that conrad johnson reached a status in Europe that they do not seem to have in the US.

I would have thought 8A - XS the triode version of the 8 could be quite special here...of course today, there are the CJ ART 27a (which could be further monoblocked for 72 watts/channel?) and 108A monos.

 

[microstrip]

I would have thought 8A - XS the triode version of the 8 could be quite special here...of course today, there are the CJ ART 27a (which could be further monoblocked for 72 watts/channel?) and 108A monos.

The cj's of the premier 8 series followers (LP275m or ART) can be user adjusted for global bias and individual tube bias. We can use any socket compatible 6550 type tube on them, surely including the EL34. Most schematics are available at the conradjohnson owners site and we can get great support from their members. https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/viewforum.php?f=17&sid=8b7a99b1be777ede81080fc83c93999f

 

[Another Johnson]

The cj's of the premier 8 series followers (LP275m or ART) can be user adjusted for global bias and individual tube bias. We can use any socket compatible 6550 type tube on them, surely including the EL34.

The EL34 and 6550 aren’t interchangeable. Sockets are wired differently.

CJ LP70S - Page 2 - Conrad Johnson Owners.com

I was a CJ fan and owner for over 35 years. I no longer count myself as a fan. I won’t bore you with the story, but when I listen to my ARC and/or Burmester based systems, I wonder what I ever saw in CJ. YMMV

 

[LL21]

The EL34 and 6550 aren’t interchangeable. Sockets are wired differently.

I was a CJ fan and owner for over 35 years. I no longer count myself as a fan. I won’t bore you with the story, but when I listen to my ARC and/or Burmester based systems, I wonder what I ever saw in CJ. YMMV

Interesting...I owned their preamps for 20 consecutive years all the way thru CJ GAT 2...but went from their MV60 amp 13 years ago to Gryphon Class A amps through Mephisto. Then came Robert Koda K15EX/K160 Monos. But a long-time fan of their preamps and would still enjoy hearing the ART88 someday just to hear where they've gotten to.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The output of the Hana cartridge is .45mV. The output of the ZYX cartridge is a low .24mV.

I have always been concerned about putting too much pressure on the Io. Various reviewers and users along the way have suggested that for some reason the ZYX cartridges tend to sound stronger than their nominal output spec. I have found this to be the case. The ZYX is not 3dB lower than the Hana.

I am pleasantly surprised that the Io is having no trouble with the ZYX.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The system at the moment is quite complicated:

-- two pairs of towers independently receiving signals from the preamp;

-- mixing different brands of components;

-- mixing balanced inputs and cables with single-ended inputs and cables;

-- mixing tube components and solid-state components;

-- total interconnect lengths approaching 60 feet;

-- Jadis amplifiers; and

-- many different electrical circuits, each of different lengths.

Yet, so far, not one bit of ground hum or grounding problem. Maybe that absurdly expensive electrical infrastructure with two chemical grounds was worth something.

 

[Johan K]

lol so not true bro sound reflects every where to say it’s not on sides or ceilings is a marketing strategy

Yes the sound moves at 340m/s in all directions - the floor and ceiling is no exceptions - very true.

 

[Another Johnson]

While the reverberant field will be reflecting from all hard surfaces including floor and ceiling, the direct field from a vertical line source will not be interacting with the ceiling on its way to Ron’s ears.

If Ron is one of the guys who wants to “load the room,” ceiling treatment will probably be needed. When you load the room, you’ll get many room modes excited.

Some carpeting is never a bad idea for a wide range of reasons. In Ron’s room the listener is much closer to the floor than the ceiling.

 

[morricab]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I have to concede that, having been skeptical that 80 watts would work on the Pendragons, about which I was completely wrong, I am now, similarly, skeptical that 50 watts or less could work on the Pendragons.

In the 20 watt range the Viva Aurora is probably my favorite SET of all time. In the 50 watt range I would select the Absolare SET.

But it is an open question to me whether there is something about the Jadis design that affords the Jadis Class A amps a "weightiness" that is unique. In other words, even if something like an Absolare SET PSET or a Wavac 833 offered a purer, more "magical" midrange than a JA200, I would not want to lose the weightiness of the JA200 if the Absolare SET or an 833 did not also retain the weightiness of the Jadis.

In other words, the weightiness I am hearing from the Jadis in the upper bass to lower midrange is more important to me than is the midrange purity of an SET or PSET.

Unfortunately, there is no way to figure this out with buying like four more amplifiers!

Where did you hear the Absolare PSET and on what speakers?