Saskia AKA Win is back. Here is my first post.
Simple ideas.
Seeing things clearly is all that really counts. I am back, but my approach is new. You will see in time.
www.whatsbestforum.com
Saskia model two
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
www.whatsbestforum.com
Saskia AKA Win is back. Here is my first post.
Simple ideas.
Seeing things clearly is all that really counts. I am back, but my approach is new. You will see in time.
welcome back Win. nice that you are here.
Welcome back Win!Saskia AKA Win is back. Here is my first post.
Simple ideas.
Seeing things clearly is all that really counts. I am back, but my approach is new. You will see in time.
david
It's a three phase AC motor with external rotor of a "soft" magnetic material.
The speed is controlled by the frequency of a custom made three phase supply*: the use of a soft material in the rotor causes eddy currents which magnetise the rotor so it locks into synchrony once it is running.
Someone asked about the motor power: the eddy currents waste a lot of energy so the output power of the motor once it locks into synchrony** is about two watts, the other forty odd watts of input power is dissipated as heat.
* I designed the first couple of iterations of the supply so I can tell you how it achieved better than 10 ppm accuracy. I did not design the current version. I am no longer in the audio business, I now spend my time making wine and bicycles.
** Here I have used output power in synchrony, eg the product of dropout torque and synchronous speed. This gives the maximal power the system can dissipate and maintain speed which is IMO the most useful definition of motor power for TTs. In any well designed system (and the Saskia is certainly one such), the maximal actual dissipation will be well below this threshold so motor power becomes irrelevant except in terms of noise: more powerful motors are just noisier. Witness the Commonwealth D3, which used a motor from a washing machine. It was designed for use in radio where nothing below 200Hz was transmitted so at the time this didn't matter.
Last edited:
All of the power dissipation mentioned is in the motor itself. As stated it is due to the eddy currents, these don't occur in the PS.
The original power supply was based on the excellent Tripath T amps which were very efficient so it dissipated about 2 watts per phase. I do not know what is being used now: the T amps we originally used were withdrawn from the market when Tripath were subject to a takeover.
It's a two pole motor, so it turns at supply frequency x 30 (speed in RPM with frequency in Hz, eg it runs at 1500 RPM on a 50 Hz supply). The PS frequency was infinitely adjustable so it could be tuned to run at any speed. I remember Win doing a lot of work on exactly what speed gave the best sound, I do not remember the final number.
The original power supply was based on the excellent Tripath T amps which were very efficient so it dissipated about 2 watts per phase. I do not know what is being used now: the T amps we originally used were withdrawn from the market when Tripath were subject to a takeover.
It's a two pole motor, so it turns at supply frequency x 30 (speed in RPM with frequency in Hz, eg it runs at 1500 RPM on a 50 Hz supply). The PS frequency was infinitely adjustable so it could be tuned to run at any speed. I remember Win doing a lot of work on exactly what speed gave the best sound, I do not remember the final number.
Last edited:
No it doesn't.
As stated the major thermal losses are due to eddy currents in the soft magnetic material of the rotor so the heat is being dissipated by the rotor shell rather than the copper stator windings. 40 watts isn't hard to dissipate when a fairly massive rotor is spinning at 1500 - 1800 RPM.
These motors were intended to run all day, every day in broadcast equipment and be as reliable as German engineering could make them. They succeeded.
If I recall correctly, Win ran his prototype 24/7 for a year to make sure everything was durable before he let the world in on it.
As stated the major thermal losses are due to eddy currents in the soft magnetic material of the rotor so the heat is being dissipated by the rotor shell rather than the copper stator windings. 40 watts isn't hard to dissipate when a fairly massive rotor is spinning at 1500 - 1800 RPM.
These motors were intended to run all day, every day in broadcast equipment and be as reliable as German engineering could make them. They succeeded.
If I recall correctly, Win ran his prototype 24/7 for a year to make sure everything was durable before he let the world in on it.
Last edited:
I know you're naturally biased Lol, but can you comment on the sound of Saskia (effectively, Mk1)?
I ask because there is precisely ONE customer report on any forum...Mike Lavigne.
Google Saskia idler drive tt, and all you get are one or two disparate show reports from 6-7 years ago. There are zero other user reports, no official reviews, sporadic blog references, and that's it.
For a few years, Saskia was in my sights, but I frustratingly could never pin down concrete progressive contact, or any user reports info online.
I cannot understand how such a substantial design and take no prisoners final product can have proved to be so invisible.
I ask because there is precisely ONE customer report on any forum...Mike Lavigne.
Google Saskia idler drive tt, and all you get are one or two disparate show reports from 6-7 years ago. There are zero other user reports, no official reviews, sporadic blog references, and that's it.
For a few years, Saskia was in my sights, but I frustratingly could never pin down concrete progressive contact, or any user reports info online.
I cannot understand how such a substantial design and take no prisoners final product can have proved to be so invisible.
I have never heard it. I am in Australia and no Saskia has made it here. I am hoping that will change and will tell you if it does.
I was a partial contributor to its invisibility. I wasn't able to dedicate the time required for the redesign when the T amps became unobtainable.
I understand there were some other difficulties with distribution arrangements which were eventually resolved through legal channels.
I will not make more comment except to say that Win himself is very much a man of his word and he tends to take others at their word. This has cost him greatly.
Last edited:
Well, hopefully Mike's championing of it has benefitted Win re much needed exposure. I still love the aesthetic and concept, and indirectly Saskia led me down the path of a mainly state-based tt (22kg slate tt plinth, 93kg slate Stacore isolating platform, 50kg inert slate stand) and torquey direct rim drive.
I agree but I don't think Mike is alone there.
I'm pretty sure Frank Shroeder, Mike Fremer and a bunch of other audio luminaries agree that Win is onto something and it's about time the world got to hear it.
Caveat: I'm biased but it's because I know Win and think a great deal of him. I no longer have any financial involvement with the Saskia project, as explained above.
I'm pretty sure Frank Shroeder, Mike Fremer and a bunch of other audio luminaries agree that Win is onto something and it's about time the world got to hear it.
Caveat: I'm biased but it's because I know Win and think a great deal of him. I no longer have any financial involvement with the Saskia project, as explained above.
Well, surely that would be solved by one of the major reviewers, you know, reviewing it Lol.
A revolutionary idea, but has some merit.
I mean, if Fremer can review a $200k tt based on a Technics SP10R...
A revolutionary idea, but has some merit.
I mean, if Fremer can review a $200k tt based on a Technics SP10R...
Well that one I can answer by analogy.
I make very nice bicycles. I don't make very many of them because they each take hundreds of hours of painstaking work (Google my username and you'll see why).
I am not well enough known to sell them for a price that pays me enough to make more of them. I cannot get any reviewers interested in a product that is effectively unobtainium. Without reviews, I am not well enough known.....
I make very nice bicycles. I don't make very many of them because they each take hundreds of hours of painstaking work (Google my username and you'll see why).
I am not well enough known to sell them for a price that pays me enough to make more of them. I cannot get any reviewers interested in a product that is effectively unobtainium. Without reviews, I am not well enough known.....
Our friend here, Lyre, was the motor designer on original Mark One version of the Saskia tt that MLavigne owns (his being Mark Two). Mr. Lyre has gone onto pastures knew, and was drawing an analogy between his new venture of bespoke bikes and bespoke tts, ie how hard it is to get the oxygen of publicity, that would push visibility and make these ventures rational.
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |