Social Media and High End Audio

[Mike Lavigne]

Come to my place there Jeff and weep at how digital shreds the ass out of your beloved vinyl... I consistently get Vinyl guys over here that applaud my rig and say if they hadn't spent $100K on their TT and vinyl collection they would never do it over again... You simply have not heard digital done right .... ask Dr. Vinyl.... He said 2 things that stuck out. 1. You need to charge admission for these demos 2. This is the first time Ive heard that Orchestral piece where the system can reproduce 100% of the Orchestra.. bottom to top with complete balance..... Not my words, ask Jose...

let's be very clear that my invite to you is not focused on the Wadax/Playbacks compare but the digital/vinyl compare you offered to Jeff. my response to you was not any over the top Wadax bluster assuming any result for that compare. but sorting out the digital representative would be just a first step.

we could ignore that step and just do the Playbacks/vinyl compare.

my agenda was that as i do this digital/vinyl compare every day, and have seriously committed much time and efforts to it, and you never do it, i feel your dismissing of vinyl is un-professional.

not sure how this is coming down, i still want to do this. the agendas going on in this thread are not making me feel warm and inviting. not interested in a circus.

 

[Kingrex]

let's be very clear that my invite to you is not focused on the Wadax/Playbacks compare but the digital/vinyl compare you offered to Jeff. my response to you was not any over the top Wadax bluster assuming any result for that compare. but sorting out the digital representative would be just a first step.

we could ignore that step and just do the Playbacks/vinyl compare.

my agenda was that as i do this digital/vinyl compare every day, and have seriously committed much time and efforts to it, and you never do it, i feel your dismissing of vinyl is un-professional.

not sure how this is coming down, i still want to do this. the agendas going on in this thread are not making me feel warm and inviting. not interested in a circus.

Thats a large delta between what I perceived as the event and what Mike says the intent is.

Maybe you need a 3rd party videographer. That way neither of you control the content. You can then fairly edit the event.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Maybe you need a 3rd party videographer.

I might volunteer for that job.

 

[Kingrex]

put me on ignore

We need a thumbs down button. When people make distasteful coments, they should feel direct feedback by seeing 20 or 30 thumbs down. Maybe you will begin to get the point then.

 

[Steve Williams]

We need a thumbs down button. When people make distasteful coments, they should feel direct feedback by seeing 20 or 30 thumbs down. Maybe you will begin to get the point then.

If you look at the 6 emoticons we use the 6th one is the one you are looking for..it connotes a very angry face

 

[Kingrex]

If you look at the 6 emoticons we use the 6th one is the one you are looking for..it connotes a very angry face

I don't see emoji. Maybe its my Samsung. I see a like button and reply button on the bottom right of a post. And a report on the bottom left.

Heck, if I started seeing a bunch of thumbs down to my posts, I would reassess my comments or maybe just stop posting. Probably not the reaction a forum wants.

Per Elliott comment about freedom of speech, It would be nice to have a simple tally just like the Like button, but Disslike so one can quickly voice their reaction without having to Reply and then type out some exacerbating the issue comment. It seems anyone who voices distate in a posters comments then ends up causing the OPoster to dig in and divert the entire thread telling people to Hide them or whatever their short fuse may be driving in their psyche at the moment.

Even better, at the top of the main forum, the most Disliked poster could get their own honors slot along with the others with most Likes, most Post etc. A honorable mention to their valiant efforts.

 

[Kingsrule]

If you look at the 6 emoticons we use the 6th one is the one you are looking for..it connotes a very angry face

Much clearer....

 

[Kingrex]

so you dont believe in freedom of expression only what doesnt offend your sensabilities, When people say really insane things your ok with that, You are good with Fox news and Dominion voting and George Santos and people blatantly telling lies. I dont live in that world, I stand up for my beliefs, I defend myself when atacked, when people attack my friends, and attack my business. I get angry when people abuse my generosity by trying to promote themselves out of my efforts.
If my passion offends you then too bad

Are you saying I should not have my own freedom to express my Dislike of some of your posts?????

 

[Al M.]

I don't see emoji. Maybe its my Samsung. I see a like button and reply button on the bottom right of a post. And a report on the bottom left.

When on the phone, if you slightly tap and hold the "like" button a menu pops up to choose between the 6 emoticons.

 

[Steve Williams]

 

[Kingrex]

Not the same thing Steve. Yes I can hit reply and simply attach an Emoji. Thats not the same as a red in color thubs down populating below the thumbs up like Al hit.

 

[Kingrex]

When on the phone, if you slightly tap and hold the "like" button a menu pops up to choose between the 6 emoticons.

Ok. Sort of better. Hey, it was just a suggestion. I can drop it now. If I saw 4 dislikes, I would have dropped it sooner.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thats a large delta between what I perceived as the event and what Mike says the intent is.

Maybe you need a 3rd party videographer. That way neither of you control the content. You can then fairly edit the event.

I might volunteer for that job.

you guys don't get it.

the Youtube approach is not for me. listening sessions with friends are suppose to be fun. yes, they can be epic events organically. that's the best.

some level of investigation is fine, based on the common ground of the participants. but when it's polarized then we miss the point. not for me.

someone's Youtube street cred is not my deal. how can any sort of musical priority be common ground? it's a business agenda.

 

[Verastarr]

let's be very clear that my invite to you is not focused on the Wadax/Playbacks compare but the digital/vinyl compare you offered to Jeff. my response to you was not any over the top Wadax bluster assuming any result for that compare. but sorting out the digital representative would be just a first step.

we could ignore that step and just do the Playbacks/vinyl compare.

my agenda was that as i do this digital/vinyl compare every day, and have seriously committed much time and efforts to it, and you never do it, i feel your dismissing of vinyl is un-professional.

not sure how this is coming down, i still want to do this. the agendas going on in this thread are not making me feel warm and inviting. not interested in a circus.

Hi Mike,
I am not interested in a circus either. In fact Ive got no problem just doing this for us in the room with no video. My Vinyl thing is not dismissing it. I love records. I used to work in a record store. Im an art lover and novice collector, so I love the graphic art and the beautiful packaging on some of the pieces. My story with Vinyl is for the newcomer. When I speak about it , I simply let my viewers know that in my opinion its not imperative to have Vinyl for great sound. These are people that have no records. So I let my clients know that if they want to collect the media for the tactile nature and more intimate engagement with each particular selection to go ahead and go for it ! I send them to another dealer for the TT/Cart/Arm and the associated Vinyl accessories. For those that dont want to collect the records, I can give them sound that makes them happy without using a TT or Preamp (as long as the DAC is PBD)... I know its crazy.. Its not typical.. but this is the way I crossed the line into an "Audio Anxiety" free listening experience and Ive been able to successfully recreate it for over 20 others at this point. Just because I dont use Vinyl myself nor sell TTs does not mean I dont respect the craft. I leave it to dealers who are great at it.. I know myself and how I get with gear and to start Vinyl would have been a very time consuming affair... I simply dont want to add any more tweaky things to my rig.. Its already active quad amp. My Analog/Digital test consists of playing a tape real time and toggling back and forth between the live digital conversion to DSD and direct tape playback using a Playback Designs A to D and DAC'ing it with an MPD-8.

Soon, Ill be making a video with a live performer, so we may hear live.. Ill be recording the performance to master tape and DSDx4... Also, Ill demonstrate the tape to DSD conversion..
So we will have;

1. Live
2. Master tape recording with direct playback
3. Digital recording to DSD with direct playback
4. Digital conversion to DSD from master tape

If we really wanted to pull out all the stops, we could cut direct to lacquer... but those would be seperate performances as the Neve Lathe (mastering engineers studio) is not where my tape machines and system is..

So Vinyl is cool, just not my thing... I rarely even listen to tape... so its a lifestyle thing. I prefer little to no ritual... If you listen to my vids I NEVER bash Vinyl not even once. I say in my opinion, its unnecessary. I still look up to Vinyl Audiophiles nonetheless.

As far as DAC, the Wadax is very interesting to me. Id love to hear the differences between my reference and a potential new one. Thats all... My interest is to explore whats possible..

 

[Al M.]

My story with Vinyl is for the newcomer. When I speak about it , I simply let my viewers know that in my opinion its not imperative to have Vinyl for great sound. These are people that have no records. So I let my clients know that if they want to collect the media for the tactile nature and more intimate engagement with each particular selection to go ahead and go for it ! I send them to another dealer for the TT/Cart/Arm and the associated Vinyl accessories.

I hope you also tell them that most contemporary pressings are from digital remasters, so it's not even the true analog experience. They need to look for old pressings and not waste their money on the typical expensive digital-sourced vinyl now in record stores just because it's hip. They should better listen to a good DAC instead. Or go with something like the excellent Blue Note Tone Poet series, if they are into jazz, for example. That's real analog as well.

 

[dminches]

I hope you also tell them that most contemporary pressings are from digital remasters, so it's not even the true analog experience. They need to look for old pressings and not waste their money on the typical expensive digital-sourced vinyl now in record stores just because it's hip. They should better listen to a good DAC instead. Or go with something like the excellent Blue Note Tone Poet series, if they are into jazz, for example. That's real analog as well.

And the Blue Note Classic series which is AAA as well.

 

[Gregadd]

I have to say that Mikey has himself some magic ears.He sat in my room at a show with at best a mediocre room for perhaps 10 minutes ( bet he can't even tell you what he heard musically), with brand new amps and preamp, a brand new power supply for the Wadax, with speakers and electronics he does not like nor own and MAGICALLY he can hear the Wadax and the Wadax alone and HE Knows what it sounds like and they are adding things.
I think Mike is wasting his time in audio he should be curing Cancer, wiping out world hunger, writing new symphonic masterpieces(this is particularly amusing), starting for the Atlanta Falcons at QB, winning the Indy 500 and whatever else he wants to grace us with in his spare time.
I am sorry but anybody that believes this hokem is going to end up with what they deserve a hot steaming pile of Sh-T.

This forum is i thought better than this. It truly is very disappointing.
Any one who wants to hear a Wadax or anything else get off you butt and do it. It is not possible to experience these things from an iphone video or from someone with an agenda second hand. Period
The real fact here is after he ranted and raved about how great ONLY his stuff is someone actually took him up on his challenge. I am very curious to see what happens when he goes to Mike Mountain if he has the courage to actually go through with his bluster.
as a great man once said " A man's got to know his limitations" Dirty Harry

Perhaps. But i also think it’s been building since Covid. Maybe one effect of an undiagnosed case of very long Covid is that the general level of maturity lowers and otherwise well-grounded adults get into big-DAC contests on-line. I am still gobsmacked at the cross-thread stalking perpetrated by those who can’t stand that not everyone agrees with their own sense of superiority.

More than a handful of folks in this thread alone ought to consider why Mike Lavigne is thought of as a model of gentlemanly good behavior. And then try to be more like Mike.

Hi Mike,
I am not interested in a circus either. In fact Ive got no problem just doing this for us in the room with no video. My Vinyl thing is not dismissing it. I love records. I used to work in a record store. Im an art lover and novice collector, so I love the graphic art and the beautiful packaging on some of the pieces. My story with Vinyl is for the newcomer. When I speak about it , I simply let my viewers know that in my opinion its not imperative to have Vinyl for great sound. These are people that have no records. So I let my clients know that if they want to collect the media for the tactile nature and more intimate engagement with each particular selection to go ahead and go for it ! I send them to another dealer for the TT/Cart/Arm and the associated Vinyl accessories. For those that dont want to collect the records, I can give them sound that makes them happy without using a TT or Preamp (as long as the DAC is PBD)... I know its crazy.. Its not typical.. but this is the way I crossed the line into an "Audio Anxiety" free listening experience and Ive been able to successfully recreate it for over 20 others at this point. Just because I dont use Vinyl myself nor sell TTs does not mean I dont respect the craft. I leave it to dealers who are great at it.. I know myself and how I get with gear and to start Vinyl would have been a very time consuming affair... I simply dont want to add any more tweaky things to my rig.. Its already active quad amp. My Analog/Digital test consists of playing a tape real time and toggling back and forth between the live digital conversion to DSD and direct tape playback using a Playback Designs A to D and DAC'ing it with an MPD-8.

Soon, Ill be making a video with a live performer, so we may hear live.. Ill be recording the performance to master tape and DSDx4... Also, Ill demonstrate the tape to DSD conversion..
So we will have;

1. Live
2. Master tape recording with direct playback
3. Digital recording to DSD with direct playback
4. Digital conversion to DSD from master tape

If we really wanted to pull out all the stops, we could cut direct to lacquer... but those would be seperate performances as the Neve Lathe (mastering engineers studio) is not where my tape machines and system is..

So Vinyl is cool, just not my thing... I rarely even listen to tape... so its a lifestyle thing. I prefer little to no ritual... If you listen to my vids I NEVER bash Vinyl not even once. I say in my opinion, its unnecessary. I still look up to Vinyl Audiophiles nonetheless.

As far as DAC, the Wadax is very interesting to me. Id love to hear the differences between my reference and a potential new one. Thats all... My interest is to explore whats possible..

{ can see you respect Vinyl. You capitalize Vinyl and use small case for digital.
The good news imo is digital has not peaked. It is comparatively easier to incorporate the advantages of digital down the line. Lastly the huge library of digital music makes it irresistible. Bob Dylan notwithstanding.

 

[Kingrex]

I had a few text with Mike L this morning, then went into my shop to work on some panels. Panel work can be a little mindless so my thoughts were wondering and It hit me about a store owner with a youtube thread going to Mike L with his DAC in hand. Of course the video is already cut and edited. Wadax GREAT. Playback is so close, why spend the money. Its advertising for the cost of an airline ticket. If OCD really wants to know what his DAC is capable of, bring it to Mike L and only listen to the Playback and vinyl. You will hear the difference. You can infer how great your digital really is. If everyone says it indistinguishable from the vinyl, then you really have something special. You might also walk away feeling digital and vinyl have a gap between them.

Not wanting to invest in a new product line and spending the $$ and money to sus out what you want to carry is very reasonable. I myself only carry one product outside what I make. I don't want the headach. People ask me about duplex every day. I tell them, go online and buy a Hubbell 5362 with brass backstrap.

Back to the Wadax, if OCD really thought it was that great, he could contact Wadax and ask about being a dealer. It is a steep investment. Whether he has the ear of the market and respect of those people to move the product is up to him to decide. He is going to have to do research to figure it out. Staying true to what he has now is just fine too. I have seen him on video going through a variety of midlevel priced DAC over time. OCD like any dealer has selected what works for him and sells to his audience.

 

[Holli82]

you guys don't get it.

the Youtube approach is not for me. listening sessions with friends are suppose to be fun. yes, they can be epic events organically. that's the best.

some level of investigation is fine, based on the common ground of the participants. but when it's polarized then we miss the point. not for me

Amen

 

[2fastdriving]

All I can say is this:

I have spent some quality time at Mike Lavigne's house listening to vinyl and comparing that to digital and tape. Mike's system has completely redefined for me what is possible in vinyl playback. It's so good that I usually prefer it over tape (and his new ampex is VERY good). I always, repeat always, prefer it to his Wadax. That is not a "knock" on the Wadax, it's just my opinion on what I'm hearing. Mike has spent considerable time and money as well as blood sweat and tears making his system a showcase of what vinyl can do when the chains are taken off.

Simply put, it is the most visceral, emotional, experience I've heard in my life. It's fully enveloping and breathtaking.

My system sounds like a boom box compare to that. In fact, most systems sound like a boom box after hearing that.

But I have a feeling that this is a pointless thread...we're all pretty much dug into our religious beliefs around these topics anyway.