"Drums in the room" happens when the combination of amp and speaker are working well - the best I've heard was at a show, Bryston monoblocks driving big Dynaudios; this was the real deal, the drumkit was in the room, the transient hits were spot on, an overwhelming sound ...I found the midrange and low-frequencies on the Grands to be at least equal to the best I have ever heard. This is what is driving this post. The Grand midrange was amazing (but so, to me, are all the ribbon and electrostatic midranges) but the low frequencies were literally the best I have ever heard. Bonzo was right about that. I did not believe him but the impact from the woofer panel was like cones -- but with greater articulation. It was the closest I have ever heard to the drums being in the room.
What's wrong with the Neoliths? Seems like that would be your top choice according to the traits you value.
Marty, as a fan of your system, respectively disagree. The FR panels are giants and contribute way more to the bass - huge wide panels pushing air down a room like yours is an audiophile's wet dream. The debth and impact is so much more, and not below just 100. The mids ribbon is also superior to the Divas. For smaller rooms, yes, Divas will image better
Ked, the problem is that the FRs can only be run biamped. That requires the Pass crossover and a second amp, cables etc. Frankly, after 40 years of experience of trying to put together speaker systems of various complexities to cover the full frequency range, I'm not inclined to go down that path again. I have been down the bi-amped and tri-amped routes. Always tempting, generally always a trade off, but no longer interesting. I think Dave C's post resonates' more with me. A modern speaker manufacturer who can control all the important parameters (frequency response, first and most of all, then distortion and phase uniformity) in a full range design capture my attention. It I was 40, I might try to bastardize something with FR Apogees, but not anymore. The Diva's might however be the rewarding compromise, and could be a great success in that they are a 1 speaker /1 amp solution that allows for some significant adjustability of all 3 panels (at least in the Henk Version but NOT in the TSW version). I consider this last piece of paramount importance. Ron, yes, you are sort of correct. I used to like that painstaking work, but I only did it for lack of alternatives as well as partial satisfaction to my mild OCD Nowadays I think there are other solutions I may wish to explore.
BTW, I am sorely tempted to re-try Magnaplanars, as that was where I entered this game many years ago (Model 1U, then 1C, ARC SP-3, D76 circa 1973). However while I know Maggies have come a long way, I just don't think they will satisfy my real orchestral level volume requirements without blowing something, but I may be wrong.
+1.
full tilt boggie orchestral reproduction is best served by designed in integration. not mix and match.
Marty, as a fan of your system, respectively disagree. The FR panels are giants and contribute way more to the bass - huge wide panels pushing air down a room like yours is an audiophile's wet dream. The debth and impact is so much more, and not below just 100. The mids ribbon is also superior to the Divas. For smaller rooms, yes, Divas will image better
You're right about the Apogees contributing way more to the bass and pushing air but I disagree with your comment on the Divas, you never heard them with the right amps. I loved the FR but Divas for me where the sweet spot of the line. They play louder than the FR and Diva's bass panels are easier to move than FR which is very difficult get going even bi-amped.
david
I might end up with the divas but like one grand owner (Florian) who also owned the FR and the diva before said, they are a toy compared to the FR. They will sound very good, but that "wow, that was just so fukn good" jump factor won't happen.
After Hearing Henk's re-built Apogee Grands I would like to see someone make a speaker with a ribbon tweeter crossed over to a ribbon midrange crossed over to Apogee Full Range or Apogee Grand woofer panels crossed over to a separate, tall column of dynamic drivers (conventional cones). And the ribbon drivers should be sensitive enough to be powered by tube amplifiers.
What speaker in production today do you think most closely approximates this design brief?
The closet thing to what you describe WAS the Martin Logan Statement E2; having low frequency dynamic woofers, mid bass dynamic cones and ribbon midranges and tweeters.
The only other speaker I am aware of that fits your "wish list" is Transmission Audio from Sweden. I'll say right off the company is off the beaten path and no one other than myself has ever mentioned it on this or other high end audio forum. Go to http://www.transmissionaudio.com and scroll down half way on their website to see the model I am referring to -- the Extreme Performance Series. They make extensive use of ribbons in midranges and tweeters, and their mid bass and sub-bass woofers are all baffle free. They are costly, but you have already invested so much, this might be what you are looking for. For where to hear, go to http://www.transmissionaudio.com/home/wheretobuy.html
You can read their specs and descriptions better than I can paraphrase them.
When you liked Maggie over your stock Diva, was that because of more midrange involvement with the maggies? Fwiw, I haven't liked many of the other apogees I heard before because I found them a bit sterile in the mids and hence used to prefer the Analysis mids over those.
Regarding Krells, that is required for the Scintilla which was the one that dropped to 1ohm. Multiple choices available for Divas, Duettas, FRs and Grands when restored.
The closet thing to what you describe WAS the Martin Logan Statement E2; having low frequency dynamic woofers, mid bass dynamic cones and ribbon midranges and tweeters.
The only other speaker I am aware of that fits your "wish list" is Transmission Audio from Sweden. I'll say right off the company is off the beaten path and no one other than myself has ever mentioned it on this or other high end audio forum. Go to http://www.transmissionaudio.com and scroll down half way on their website to see the model I am referring to -- the Extreme Performance Series. They make extensive use of ribbons in midranges and tweeters, and their mid bass and sub-bass woofers are all baffle free. They are costly, but you have already invested so much, this might be what you are looking for. For where to hear, go to http://www.transmissionaudio.com/home/wheretobuy.html
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