My stereo gets a lot of notice when people come over...and it often inspires them to start the hobby or take the next steps...
State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial
- Thread starter Elliot G.
- Start date
I was just about to wrote this. Almost all luxury goods are available to the owner to show off except a hi fi system. If showing off is the objective who in their right mind would buy 100k speakers and a 50k dac and 150k amps? I would much rather buy a Mercedes EQS and keep the change. A pair of 3k headphones would also go much further than a system stuck in a man cave drooled over by ageing nerds. Vintage systems even more so, as they blend into a traditional home setting much better than contemporary gear. May be I'm old fashioned but I would personally prefer a system that was invisible. That ain't gonna work with influencers who are all about razzmatazz.
Yes, very much so...especially our Russian friends...one plays violin and the other is a fanatic of Russian TV and Film music from the Soviet era.
I'll bite. My London system is pretty good value. A pair of Audio Note UK AN/E SPX SE HE Signature driven by a AN Meishu Silver integrated amp and a Lumin T2 server. Total price is significantly below 20k. Speakers and amp were bought used. IMO this system wants for very little and in fact it has made me reconsider my home system and why it is so much more expensive.
Me too:
All New:
Line Magnetic LM805 amp
Odeon Rigoletto 2020 or Tosca 2020 speakers
BlueSound node streamer + Mutec reclocker
Ayon Stealth XS DAC
Wireworld silver eclipse cables or Vovox cables
Vovox power cables
This should come in under 20K
Used:
KR Audio VA350i or Ayon Crossfire or Amplifon SET 42 SE (can push the budget limit)
Odeon "La Boheme" speakers or Odeon No. 32 speakers (if a good deal can be found for <10K). Avantgarde Zero XD TA (half active), Vintage JBL Monitors (4345 etc.) or Altec VOTT or 604e based speaker.
Ayon S5 server or Ayon Skylla 2 DAC (with Bluesound Streamer + Mutec reclocker)
Cables of choice (used prices for cables are often a fraction of new)
Will be from under 20K to under 25K.
Thanks - that would be my expectation. I can understand folks who are already into music appreciation easily having an interest in a stereo system that takes them closer to what they know and enjoy. The interest is already there.
That versus generating an interest in music by playing it through a high-end system - perhaps for some that works.
Offering the means vs creating an end.
Those trying to influence in this hobby are the guys who get big discounts on expensive gear and then post about it on multiple websites, but never share system videos. They do the marketing for the brands. Then there are guys like Bonzo who post other people's horn system videos. These are cool and expose others to music and to what is possible in sound. This hobby is about the individual who does his own thing. Some, like me, enjoy sharing on a system thread, and posting videos. Same with Tang. Look at the VYDA cable thread with videos and descriptions of sound. I suspect that thread is influencing others.
On the other hand, we see very few Magico/Wilson/CH/WADAX videos on forums, and few videos of conventional systems in general. People say videos suck and this gear, these systems, need to be heard in person. That right there kind of kills the amplification effect that videos can have.
We seem to agree that it starts with the music. Why not spread new and old music via video played on really cool systems that sound great? Why not insert a mega Magico or Wilson system in the pages of Architectural Digest and place products in movies? If it is expensive, place them in indies because they are cool.
How far would a modern JBL Paragon or nice wood corner horn in a living room go to create a "this is cool" vibe at a dinner/cocktail party? People still have those, right? The industry has gone from enjoying music with others as a lifestyle to personal man cave, individual listening. Headphones are not very social. Music should be a social thing, shared with others.
Your point notwithstanding. Cheap and cheerful is very much a possible outcome there in more than audio. However, when faced with a veritable buffet it is sometimes less than amazing what we can actually be happy with. What experienced tastes allow full enjoyment of.
Counter this with being a professional critic required to taste everything as fast as humanly possible. It was very kind of this gentleman to fit us into his schedule.
Maybe eventually the speed of business will finally allow people in positions similar to Lee Scoggins to hire bodies representative of an upswell in healthy consumer activity. As of this moment we are faced with corporate owned entities making heavily underwritten statements no junior writer could express themselves fully under the weight of. Industry in general faces this outsized legal predicament. Leaving even the best of us trying to avoid doing anything too audacious just to relieve the boredom. Someone might choke and spit up something nobody wants to be exposed.
This hobby doesnt need more influencers / reviewers imo , it will never reach kardashian levels of interest anyway
In many cases its basically them ( reviewers / influencers) trying to convert another to what they should buy or is considered good .
Let people decide for themselves , i personally dont like to be told what to do and the same goes for other people.
For example ;
Lets say i wanna buy a ferrari , the last thing i need is an influencer / reviewer telling me i have to buy a lamborghini before i step in the dealer ship
What the industry needs in my view is more dealers with a friendlly low level entry atmosphere
Superb listening rooms with excellent matched gear , its the impression what people get is what sticks in their mind and makes them interested in buying gear .
Ps In many cases product prices can be lowered by cutting a distributor out in my view .
Its a small turnover market so in many cases manufacturers can ship directly to dealers
In many cases its basically them ( reviewers / influencers) trying to convert another to what they should buy or is considered good .
Let people decide for themselves , i personally dont like to be told what to do and the same goes for other people.
For example ;
Lets say i wanna buy a ferrari , the last thing i need is an influencer / reviewer telling me i have to buy a lamborghini before i step in the dealer ship
What the industry needs in my view is more dealers with a friendlly low level entry atmosphere
Superb listening rooms with excellent matched gear , its the impression what people get is what sticks in their mind and makes them interested in buying gear .
Ps In many cases product prices can be lowered by cutting a distributor out in my view .
Its a small turnover market so in many cases manufacturers can ship directly to dealers
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Some good discussion here...I will try to respond to some key themes rather than do a lot of quotes...
"How do we know that people want good sound?"
We see it reflected in the energy around headphones, computer audio, and vinyl...Jude's Head-Fi site gets 1 million+ unique visitors every month. Vinyl is exploding, you can see that from Tom Martin's blog on the TAS website which has gone a bit viral as well.
"Does music drive the hobby?"
Yes and no. Of course I would like to say it does 100% as that is the best outcome for society, but as a businessman I know that cultural adoption, influencers, and, most of all, community play a huge role. We have data at Nextscreen (TAS' parent) that indicates heavy overlaps between car enthusiasts and watch enthusiasts. If you get exposed to good sound, you think strongly about how you can get there or improve what you already have. There are mountains of consumer data-based insights and mountains of personal observations that support this. Of course, music enjoyment is critical to long-term hifi enjoyment so we continue to review tons of new music in each publication.
"How do we know that customer's adopt a lifecycle approach to purchasing?"
This is long-established by marketing academics. It happens in all luxury goods businesses from sports cars and Jeeps to watches to Goodyear-welted men's shoes to many other categories. High end audio won't get everyone to move beyond the $300 Grade earbuds in my example but we certainly can get more to convert to entry level high end if we show them energy around the brand.
"Watches are different because people see them."
Yes and no. Yes in that we can't wear our Wilsons on our wrist, but no in that that doesn't matter because you often don't see what car someone has driven to the bar either. It's more about creating energy around a topic and building a discussion between people that is culturally relevant. In John Mayer's many Hodinkee videos, it's not about whether I can afford the many $75K+ rare Rolexes he has, it's about the enthusiasm John has for collecting watches. Maybe hifi can get mileage around a rocker or basketball player talking about how he appreciates good sound. A celebrity can make audio cool again...take it away from a perceived nerd hobby. Get back in a way to those Playboy years where R2R decks and a good stereo were essential bachelor pad items.
"How does TAS monetize YouTube?"
We have figured out a clever and proven way but more to be revealed later as this is confidential strategy for now. We are leveraging our knowledge from Winding Road channel which has 1 million+ subscribers and we are combining that with responding to advertiser and consumer needs.
"How do we know that people want good sound?"
We see it reflected in the energy around headphones, computer audio, and vinyl...Jude's Head-Fi site gets 1 million+ unique visitors every month. Vinyl is exploding, you can see that from Tom Martin's blog on the TAS website which has gone a bit viral as well.
"Does music drive the hobby?"
Yes and no. Of course I would like to say it does 100% as that is the best outcome for society, but as a businessman I know that cultural adoption, influencers, and, most of all, community play a huge role. We have data at Nextscreen (TAS' parent) that indicates heavy overlaps between car enthusiasts and watch enthusiasts. If you get exposed to good sound, you think strongly about how you can get there or improve what you already have. There are mountains of consumer data-based insights and mountains of personal observations that support this. Of course, music enjoyment is critical to long-term hifi enjoyment so we continue to review tons of new music in each publication.
"How do we know that customer's adopt a lifecycle approach to purchasing?"
This is long-established by marketing academics. It happens in all luxury goods businesses from sports cars and Jeeps to watches to Goodyear-welted men's shoes to many other categories. High end audio won't get everyone to move beyond the $300 Grade earbuds in my example but we certainly can get more to convert to entry level high end if we show them energy around the brand.
"Watches are different because people see them."
Yes and no. Yes in that we can't wear our Wilsons on our wrist, but no in that that doesn't matter because you often don't see what car someone has driven to the bar either. It's more about creating energy around a topic and building a discussion between people that is culturally relevant. In John Mayer's many Hodinkee videos, it's not about whether I can afford the many $75K+ rare Rolexes he has, it's about the enthusiasm John has for collecting watches. Maybe hifi can get mileage around a rocker or basketball player talking about how he appreciates good sound. A celebrity can make audio cool again...take it away from a perceived nerd hobby. Get back in a way to those Playboy years where R2R decks and a good stereo were essential bachelor pad items.
"How does TAS monetize YouTube?"
We have figured out a clever and proven way but more to be revealed later as this is confidential strategy for now. We are leveraging our knowledge from Winding Road channel which has 1 million+ subscribers and we are combining that with responding to advertiser and consumer needs.
There was an AD article on how listening rooms are in vogue now.
Yes, we need more of that.
A friendly, low level entry atmosphere, agreed.
Obviously dealers have a hard time sustaining themselves these days. How about headphones only, or headphones and monitors in a smaller room, all for young people mainly? Saves tons of retail space. And is conducive to an atmosphere where young people with limited means are not arrogantly looked down upon, as they have often been in traditional high-end retail settings.
There are exceptions where the old model of large listening rooms still works. But that's for old, rich people. It doesn't grow the future of the business.
I think the idea of influencing someone with a video of my music system is nonsense. Why would someone watch my video vs. a music video of the performers? Only somebody who’s already an audio geek.
As to sharing music and great sound—its what I love doing...
I got a text late Sunday afternoon from a young woman who wanted to know if the “listening room” was open. Turned out she was thinking of the new “vinyl bar” concept popping up in metro areas, popular in Japan. I tried to see if she was a potential customer before saying the room “could be” open — turned out she was killing time before a flight later in the evening and had been to a vinyl bar in San Diego and had fun. I decided I’d have her by for an hour and play some music, and she was willing to make the drive from town. I admired her chutzpah. Turns out she works with folks in the music industry.
We shared a glass of wine and she was astounded at the sound. (I had the Alsyvox Botticelli setup after Bob.east visited a couple weekends back.)
Tonight, a few folks from the Portland Audio Club stopping by for tunes.
If we follow your advice then then high end is doomed as the aging audiophiles will die off.
We must provide a path to gain a younger generation.
Bob, good on you. These more casual listening sessions can play a role in introducing people to better sound. My experience with Mike Kay at Lyric was very much like this. It showed me who was possible.
Not everyone will get it but we only need a few to get the bug. That's what will keep this hobby thriving.
You need all three parties imho.
The influencers and reviewers generate excitement and energy around good sound. That builds foot traffic to the dealer. It's then up to a quality dealer to show them what is possible and hopefully knock their socks off and set them up with a system within their budget.
Exactly. Especially since music videos of performers, which are often professionally made, have so much better sound than the typical crappy iPhone videos of systems. It's simply no comparison. Like comparing a Ferrari with a little $ 10K car. Ridiculous.
It reminds me of what Benjamin Zander told us in Cambridge one year. "Everyone is a classical music fan. Some just don't know it yet."
One could take the word "classical" out and maybe have a good piece of the solution here. Get more people into the Center Chair. Blow their minds, even if they can't yet afford it.
Otherwise we are doomed to a world of Sonos and Bose and "good enough for me".
I reject that. A Prius is not good enough for me. I have ridden in a Porsche. I had to have one. I bought one. I wish I had done it sooner.
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