Stromtank Battery Supply / Sine Wave Converter

onlychild

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Sep 18, 2019
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Fatigue usually indicates high frequency noises which exactly washer and dryer producing. I am surprised that TT7 can’t filter these noises especially when it claims it can filter noises up to 3GHz.
You will see from many of my previous posts that I have an extremely high sensitivity to a certain band of high frequencies that immediately gives me pain, especially in my left ear. I’m also a headphone only listener so it’s probably more problematic.

I think 99.9% of people would not have the issue i do. The TT7 is fanstatic and I haven’t heard anything better for AC conditioning. I’m really hoping I don’t have to keep both.
 

MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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...I think you're right re: Romaz. My 200amp service is actually pretty good to start, on a 2/0 copper service feed. It's urban but not bad.

The TT7 cleans anything left very well. I like the impact. I do not notice significant issues with the fridge or other appliances, or time of day.

I tried to balance the phases as much as possible. The only thing on the audio phase I don't like is the wine cooler, but I can't eliminate that. What are we, savages? Good luck with the 5000, which looks like a beast.
 

Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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. I will also very soon update the 10ga. dedicated line to a 6ga. run.
If your going to run a 6, why not a 4 or 2 and terminate into a sub panel. Then nipple 2 boxes to the surface mounted subpanel and have 70A to 95A to power your system. I hear people get good results with Jim's #6 to a duplex. And I personally don't like additional connections points which a subpanel is. But I do like versatility.
 

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MarkusBarkus

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...I know, I know. A sub would be deluxe, just a bit more complicated (for me) to run and fit into place...not to mention into Sweetie's vision of hifi infrastructure. Cheers, @Kingrex
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I totally agree. I had the S1000 (smallest) model for over a year running my Uber headphone setup and the dynamics suffered and music sounded slow and bloated but it was the smoothest, least fatiguing sound I ever heard, also the best treble my system ever produced.

im currently using a Sound Application TT7 with a dedicated 20amp line using 6awg wire and it is excellent. It’s a dynamics and speed king, but if the washer/dryer are running, I get fatigue immediately, same goes for blow dryer, blender, etc. I get fatigue also depending on the time day. Nights and Sunday's are the best, but that’s not always the time I get to listen. Sometimes I’ll be ready to sit down for a session but the system is too bright and so I can’t listen for more than a few minutes. When I had the S1000, that fatigue was never there. I could listen anytime no matter what and it always sounded the same. Mind you, I live in down town Chicago with several hundred neighbors all sharing the same power lines.

Trying to fix this would need an electrician to run a power study on the house and that alone would cost several thousand dollars, not including any fix. Wife is also taking about moving in a few years, so any electrical infrastructure improvements would all be wasted if I moved.

Long story short, I have a S5000 High Power arriving tomorrow straight from the D’agastino office. I will be testing the dynamics specifically against my Sound Application TT7 240 PGI (but I’m not running big hungry power amps, only an Extreme and Sennheiser HE-1) Will report back.
Wow...the HE1 is the stuff of legend! Would love to hear those someday. Until then having "moved up" we went from Sennheiser HD650s & Arcam rHead amp to an Meze Empyrean & ERA Yoshino HP4 amp. From everything we could find, the closest to the HD650 sound with greater technical ability...but still short of the ultimate in that direction...which is (from what we have read) is your HE1. Sounds like a fantastic ultimate sound to me.

In any event, how is the new bigger Stromtank? Looking forward to hearing about it!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi OnlyChild...I realized read about your adventures with the Tripoint Troy NG...and looked up your [now outdated] signature...appears you had a Meze Empyrean at one time...then went to Susvara...and now HE1!

I am curious...whatever happened when you added the SGM to the Tripoint NG Grounding? Your comments on the Tripoint NG thread did not update on that one...just curious. Thanks!
 

onlychild

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Sep 18, 2019
133
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Wow...the HE1 is the stuff of legend! Would love to hear those someday. Until then having "moved up" we went from Sennheiser HD650s & Arcam rHead amp to an Meze Empyrean & ERA Yoshino HP4 amp. From everything we could find, the closest to the HD650 sound with greater technical ability...but still short of the ultimate in that direction...which is (from what we have read) is your HE1. Sounds like a fantastic ultimate sound to me.

In any event, how is the new bigger Stromtank? Looking forward to hearing about it!
Yes, the HE-1 is fantastic, especially considering that its an all-in-one system. I have owned and listened to alot of headphones over the years and the Susvara's are my 2nd favorite headphones. Before I got the HE-1, I was planning a crazy Susvara setup --> Chord Dave w/Linear Power Supply, Riviera pre-amp, Riviera mono blocks feeding a susvara with maxed out power and interconnect cables , etc. This was starting to get messy real quick with all the little black boxes and cabling. The HE-1 system is basically that, a dac with preamp and mono amps (in the ear cups) all rolled up in a tidy neat package and the total buy in is less than what the Susvara system would have cost.

Below is a pic of the S5000 as it sat 2 feet from the door for a few days. I had to hire 3 movers to move all 350lbs of the crate to my office upstairs.

I spent a few hours listening last night and from initial impressions, the S5000HP is very different sounding than the S1000 I previously owned. Gone is the slow, rolled off, muddy sound I heard with the 1000. The S5000 is fast, super dynamic, and extremely smooth. So much detail and not a hint of edginess or glare. One thing that stuck me on first listen was just how uncolored/transparent everything sounded.

I need to let things settle for a few days (especially the Extreme, which requires a good 5 days of run time to sound its best) before I post more impressions.

I think the S1000 would be a great choice for network equipment or front end only equipment (no Extreme though as it needs to be treated like a power hungry amp).

Currently, I have the Extreme on the "power amp" side of the S5000HP and the HE-1 on the "Front End" side. Both are fed by Shunyata Omega QR power cables. The Extreme and Stromtank are grounded to the tripoint on their own post. All my listening is on TAS with locally stored music and the network shut off.
 

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onlychild

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2019
133
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Hi OnlyChild...I realized read about your adventures with the Tripoint Troy NG...and looked up your [now outdated] signature...appears you had a Meze Empyrean at one time...then went to Susvara...and now HE1!

I am curious...whatever happened when you added the SGM to the Tripoint NG Grounding? Your comments on the Tripoint NG thread did not update on that one...just curious. Thanks!

My system has changed a bit since I got the Tripoint. I had only done A/B tests with the Tripoint when I initially got it. After that, I just connected anything I had to it and left it at that. About 4-5 weeks ago, a friend had asked if I would test the effect of the Tripoint on the Extreme only and when I did the tests, I was shocked at the difference I was hearing. It was not subtle at all. It basically gave just as much of an improvement (if not more) as anything else I have connected to the Tripoint.

You sometimes forget how easily a system can fall apart when any one piece is removed. For me, the Tripoint is a necessity for my system since I have yet to hear any other piece of equipment bring about this "type" (not amount) of improvement. It really does bring the soul out of the music.

I have not listened to any other grounding products besides the Tripoint so my experience it limited to that.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Wow...great stuff onlychild! Thank you! Very helpful feedback. I am a huge fan of Tripoint having owned their Troy Signature for 10 years or so now. I am revisiting the latest in grounding to see where it has gone, so anecdotes like this are helpful. I am listening to the latest Entreq as we speak and will spend some time with it over the next week or so.

I think going from no ground to grounding is a different kind of 'ramp' in performance to one kind of grounding to another. (At least it is so far with a lot more to come.)

Enjoy your sensational system. In fact, listening to our Meze Empyreans/EAR Yoshino HP4 right now!
 
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gleeds

Industry Expert
May 29, 2018
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My experience leads me to believe batteries are best left to power front-end components and not power amplifiers. I just completed a modest AC overall for our equipment for the showroom. This included using an existing ground rod connected directly to the breakers feeding my audio gear. Cabling was 10-gauge solid-core copper from the box to the upgraded outlets. The total project cost was under $4k including materials outlets, and a top-class electrician doing the work. The sonic results were excellent as they have been in the past when using this simple approach.

Some feel an Equitech or Torus panels make sense and they can indeed work very well with everything else properly attended to. My preferred solution for someone like Ron who has serious equipment is to contact Ed Devito at Audio Ultra that did Mike Fremer's major rewire. The total cost of their buffed-out custom panel, and design consultation, installation support, and a local electrician to do the hands-on work per their blueprint is the same or less than a Stromtank. Big focus on proper grounding here! Nothing against the beautiful box from Germany but IMHO Ed's solution is simply the real deal way to go.

Full disclosure: we have no affiliation with Audio Ultra other than Ed lent his time and advice freely when I was contemplating going for his package. He understood when I decided that making an investment in what is currently a short-term rental property did not make sense at this time which, of course, was greatly appreciated



 
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onlychild

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Sep 18, 2019
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150
My experience leads me to believe batteries are best left to power front-end components and not power amplifiers. I just completed a modest AC overall for our equipment for the showroom. This included using an existing ground rod connected directly to the breakers feeding my audio gear. Cabling was 10-gauge solid-core copper from the box to the upgraded outlets. The total project cost was under $4k including materials outlets, and a top-class electrician doing the work. The sonic results were excellent as they have been in the past when using this simple approach.

Some feel an Equitech or Torus panels make sense and they can indeed work very well with everything else properly attended to. My preferred solution for someone like Ron who has serious equipment is to contact Ed Devito at Audio Ultra that did Mike Fremer's major rewire. The total cost of their buffed-out custom panel, and design consultation, installation support, and a local electrician to do the hands-on work per their blueprint is the same or less than a Stromtank. Big focus on proper grounding here! Nothing against the beautiful box from Germany but IMHO Ed's solution is simply the real deal way to go.

Full disclosure: we have no affiliation with Audio Ultra other than Ed lent his time and advice freely when I was contemplating going for his package. He understood when I decided that making an investment in what is currently a short-term rental property did not make sense at this time which, of course, was greatly appreciated



Small world! Guess who I got my Stromtank from?

I've been chatting with Ed for over a year now and he had originally sent me prototype pics of this custom in-rack panel as that was a route I was considering. Ed and Les also helped me get my grounding fixed. Turns out when the old house was torn down to build the current one, the wire and grounding below the city meter was still from the old house and completely rusted, probably a good 75+ years old. With Ed's help and a local electrician, we added two new ground rods and bonded them with new wire from the meter down.

I currently have 6awg wire directly to a dedicated outlet that is then feeding a TT7. From initial impressions, I can say that the Stromtank still sounds better in my house with my system. I think this is a case by case scenario where for someone like me living downtown with hundreds of neighbors sharing the same transformer and power lines, no matter how well my electrical infrastructure is, it will never sound as good as someone living out in the suburbs with only 3-4 neighbors unless I get my own transformer.

Something that the Les (who works with Ed) mentioned is that when I improved my grounding, that would become the path of least resistance for all my neighbor's grounding too. Not a big deal with only a few neighbors, but I still needed to replace the rusted ground rods and wire so I had it done anyways.

I have no affiliation with Ed/Audio Ultra either. I found him on WBF and reached out that way. I think it is a good idea to get a consultation from Ed and team and then figure out which path is best. This is something that I have been planning/working on for over a year with many calls back and forth with Ed. He definitely did not push me in the direction of the Stromtank, that was my decision, but it worked out that he was also a dealer for it.

Another thing to note, we probably will not be in our current house for more than a few years. The idea of spending Stromtank type money or even 50% of it for only a few years, and then losing it all on the next move did not make much sense to me.
 

gleeds

Industry Expert
May 29, 2018
773
1,260
235
Love this about WBF! Good people, sharing their unique situations and direct experience. Thanks so much for adding valuable perspective to one of the most vexing issues in high-performance audio. No doubt a solid house is built on a strong foundation (and a strong grounding implementation) Naturally, the same holds true for a great audio system!
 
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engadin

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Apr 23, 2022
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While I am recovering from some viral infection (pcr for Covid still negative), I ordered a 2500 Quantum.
Must have been the fever.
New version with an additional DDS socket, sporting a filter to run those dirty (digital) components.
My plan is to plug
tt Basis Audio
phono stage Klyne 7
Rowland Coherence II

in the normal sockets,
T+A SD 3100 hv streamer / DAC
Ediscreation extreme switch
into a Furutech 609 into the DDS socket.

The 2500 is said to sound better than S1000.
Would it be reasonable (no, we need another word …) would it further improve sonics to buy a S4400 instead?
Some seven grand more expensive here.

Thx in advance for your input and cheers!
Ulrich
 

engadin

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Apr 23, 2022
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S5000 and S2500 Quantum use 48V internally, while S1000, older S2500 non Quantum and S4000 run on 24V.
As far as I understood higher voltage means lower internal impedance means better capabilities to deliver.

I haven’t listened to one of their units but these are thoughts why some members are enthusiastic and others think Stromtanks are “slow”. Might be 48 vs. 24V. Maybe.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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S5000 and S2500 Quantum use 48V internally, while S1000, older S2500 non Quantum and S4000 run on 24V.
As far as I understood higher voltage means lower internal impedance means better capabilities to deliver.

I haven’t listened to one of their units but these are thoughts why some members are enthusiastic and others think Stromtanks are “slow”. Might be 48 vs. 24V. Maybe.
Very interesting...will bear that in mind for the future.

Meanwhile, I see you have the Meze Elite. I had an opportunity to buy a pair but elected to buy a near-new Meze Empyrean from a manufacturer as it was his personal unit. Cost a lot less than the Elite, and it apparently slightly more mellow approach appealed to what I was looking for in headphones after moving a Sennheiser 800S on after struggling for a few months to get along with it.

Have you compared the Elite with the Empyrean by any chance? Was curious nevertheless.
 

engadin

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Apr 23, 2022
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Elite vs. Empyrian: sorry, no comparison. I have never heard an Empy.
I had Elite and Solitaire P for a few weeks to compare.

I preferred sonically the Soli P by a small margin, but preferred the Elite in the end for it’s comfort and ergonomics.

Cheers, Engadin
 

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LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Elite vs. Empyrian: sorry, no comparison. I have never heard an Empy.
I had Elite and Solitaire P for a few weeks to compare.

I preferred sonically the Soli P by a small margin, but preferred the Elite in the end for it’s comfort and ergonomics.

Cheers, Engadin
Thanks!
 

MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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Last week, I spent four days with a Stromtank S2500 Quantum in my system. This was not the new MkII version with a digital filter, but a somewhat earlier version, albeit at 48 volts.

In my opinion, the power at my place is good, although I have never had it measured. The 200 amp 2/0 copper service enters via an underground steel conduit, and the leg from the utility transformer feeds about 10 condos. I am on the NE US power grid, for reference.

I have two dedicated lines to the "Sound Chamber," a 12 gauge run with normal Romex, and a run of stranded 10 gauge THHN in flexible metallic conduit. Both lines are direct "home-runs" to the panel, about 35 feet, with Square D breakers and Shunyata Z1 outlets. Outlets are housed in metallic, in-wall boxes, with normal cover plates bolstered with anti-RF material stuck inside the covers.

"Currently," I only use the 10 ga. line which feeds a Sound Application TT7 via a Sablon King pc. Everything is plugged into the TT7. Long way around to support my earlier statement that "the power at my place is good" although I plan to run a dedicated 6 gauge line soon, to make it "more good."

The Stromtank demo was an exercise in determination, as the unit was 100km away, packed in a formidable crate, and at 135lbs. a bit of a hassle. I'm awaiting knee replacement surgery, so screwing up my knee moving an audio crate, would have created sparks in the "domestic power service" with Sweetie, so I hired local movers to get the Tank in and out of the car, and up and down the stairs. Better safe than sorry.

All said, two fit people could certainly negotiate a Stromtank S2500 under normal circumstances, but it's awkward and something to consider. And the bigger models? 100% consider professional help.

The manual outlines the steps to take for safe un-crating and getting things powered up. Two power switches and a key! Then power up your gear, one component at a time.

I started with just my MSB Reference dac plugged into the S2500 in on-grid mode and let it go for an hour or two while a hifi friend headed over. It sounded great. But that's not news.

After a casual lunch, we tried switching from the on-grid pass-through mode to the off-grid "Green Lantern" battery mode for the first time. It sounded great. But that's not news.

We tried a few songs and genres (TAS player software) before we decided to add the Luxman c900 pre-amp to the battery. We listened for another 20-30 minutes and added the Taiko Extreme to the Stromtank. I left things in this configuration for the remainder of the four days (dac, pre, server).

Some listener/reviewers have reported a slight softening of the sound when the Extreme is on battery power. I did not find that to be the case at my place. Transients and speed seemed the same whether on or off grid. We switched back and forth many times, which can be done with a simple switch on the front of the unit.

Music sounded very good, but when my friend and I discussed things after about three hours of listening, we agreed the effect was subtle. Maybe there was a touch of smoothness "on battery." Maybe.

But I think there is a challenge I don't recall reading about in reviews thus far: a true A/B is not as easy as using the switch on the front panel.

Sure, the switch takes you on and off battery mode, which tells you something, but even in the "blue" on-grid mode, the current your components receive is not an unaltered pass-through. The Tank is providing non-battery current for your devices, but also charging the batteries, and, I believe, doing a bit of AC wave form filtering management too.

I think the only proper way to compare would be with gear on the S2500 and then completely off it. I was not willing to go to that level of demo gymnastics.

I know my system well, so I did my best to zero in on the detail, flow and punch, from memory, versus the real-time system on the Stromtank.

I recognize that is not the best way to compare, but that was as far as I was willing to go.

Unplugging/plugging servers and dacs multiple times in close succession is not a great idea, in my view. And four days of listening is sufficient to notice a positive or negative impact to SQ.

I'm not going to write more about the sonic details on the Stromtank, because, frankly, I didn't find it much (any?) different from the sound without the Stromtank, which means I would just be giving you a review of my system.

For potential Stromtank listeners, all is not lost. Your power delivery and infrastructure may not be as good as mine fortunately is, in which case, you might find a significant benefit to removing components from your local grid.

The bad news may be that you really should find a demo to determine whether this is a net-plus for you or not. I genuinely believe it could be. And maybe the top model would be in my system too, but I'm not going to test that use case.

In theory, I would expect taking audio components off the grid to be a big deal sonically, and I was really looking forward to being wowed by the expensive battery beast, der Stromtank. But practically, it was not the case.

What I am now looking forward to is Team Taiko's battery solution for the Extreme, which purports to bring battery management and battery powered audio to the next level by designing and implementing new technology into the audiophile space. Hey @Taiko Audio , how about a demo?!
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Switzerland
Last week, I spent four days with a Stromtank S2500 Quantum in my system. This was not the new MkII version with a digital filter, but a somewhat earlier version, albeit at 48 volts.

In my opinion, the power at my place is good, although I have never had it measured. The 200 amp 2/0 copper service enters via an underground steel conduit, and the leg from the utility transformer feeds about 10 condos. I am on the NE US power grid, for reference.

I have two dedicated lines to the "Sound Chamber," a 12 gauge run with normal Romex, and a run of stranded 10 gauge THHN in flexible metallic conduit. Both lines are direct "home-runs" to the panel, about 35 feet, with Square D breakers and Shunyata Z1 outlets. Outlets are housed in metallic, in-wall boxes, with normal cover plates bolstered with anti-RF material stuck inside the covers.

"Currently," I only use the 10 ga. line which feeds a Sound Application TT7 via a Sablon King pc. Everything is plugged into the TT7. Long way around to support my earlier statement that "the power at my place is good" although I plan to run a dedicated 6 gauge line soon, to make it "more good."

The Stromtank demo was an exercise in determination, as the unit was 100km away, packed in a formidable crate, and at 135lbs. a bit of a hassle. I'm awaiting knee replacement surgery, so screwing up my knee moving an audio crate, would have created sparks in the "domestic power service" with Sweetie, so I hired local movers to get the Tank in and out of the car, and up and down the stairs. Better safe than sorry.

All said, two fit people could certainly negotiate a Stromtank S2500 under normal circumstances, but it's awkward and something to consider. And the bigger models? 100% consider professional help.

The manual outlines the steps to take for safe un-crating and getting things powered up. Two power switches and a key! Then power up your gear, one component at a time.

I started with just my MSB Reference dac plugged into the S2500 in on-grid mode and let it go for an hour or two while a hifi friend headed over. It sounded great. But that's not news.

After a casual lunch, we tried switching from the on-grid pass-through mode to the off-grid "Green Lantern" battery mode for the first time. It sounded great. But that's not news.

We tried a few songs and genres (TAS player software) before we decided to add the Luxman c900 pre-amp to the battery. We listened for another 20-30 minutes and added the Taiko Extreme to the Stromtank. I left things in this configuration for the remainder of the four days (dac, pre, server).

Some listener/reviewers have reported a slight softening of the sound when the Extreme is on battery power. I did not find that to be the case at my place. Transients and speed seemed the same whether on or off grid. We switched back and forth many times, which can be done with a simple switch on the front of the unit.

Music sounded very good, but when my friend and I discussed things after about three hours of listening, we agreed the effect was subtle. Maybe there was a touch of smoothness "on battery." Maybe.

But I think there is a challenge I don't recall reading about in reviews thus far: a true A/B is not as easy as using the switch on the front panel.

Sure, the switch takes you on and off battery mode, which tells you something, but even in the "blue" on-grid mode, the current your components receive is not an unaltered pass-through. The Tank is providing non-battery current for your devices, but also charging the batteries, and, I believe, doing a bit of AC wave form filtering management too.

I think the only proper way to compare would be with gear on the S2500 and then completely off it. I was not willing to go to that level of demo gymnastics.

I know my system well, so I did my best to zero in on the detail, flow and punch, from memory, versus the real-time system on the Stromtank.

I recognize that is not the best way to compare, but that was as far as I was willing to go.

Unplugging/plugging servers and dacs multiple times in close succession is not a great idea, in my view. And four days of listening is sufficient to notice a positive or negative impact to SQ.

I'm not going to write more about the sonic details on the Stromtank, because, frankly, I didn't find it much (any?) different from the sound without the Stromtank, which means I would just be giving you a review of my system.

For potential Stromtank listeners, all is not lost. Your power delivery and infrastructure may not be as good as mine fortunately is, in which case, you might find a significant benefit to removing components from your local grid.

The bad news may be that you really should find a demo to determine whether this is a net-plus for you or not. I genuinely believe it could be. And maybe the top model would be in my system too, but I'm not going to test that use case.

In theory, I would expect taking audio components off the grid to be a big deal sonically, and I was really looking forward to being wowed by the expensive battery beast, der Stromtank. But practically, it was not the case.

What I am now looking forward to is Team Taiko's battery solution for the Extreme, which purports to bring battery management and battery powered audio to the next level by designing and implementing new technology into the audiophile space. Hey @Taiko Audio , how about a demo?!
Have you tried power regeneration? I have had big (mostly positive) effects using them.
 

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