Sublime Sound

[Al M.]

Al, I’m not sure any system can do everything perfectly or anything perfectly. We are talking about systems trying to reproduce music. The best we can hope for is the next level and what we enjoy the most with the music we like the most.

I did not have a chance to listen to electronica or movie soundtracks at David’s house, but I did listen to Peggy Lee sing “fever“. It was unbelievable. I would be more than happy to live with any of David systems to play the type of music I like.

Sure, Peter.

Yet the tone hear lately has been so gushing as to seemingly imply that SETs/horns do everything incredibly well, without the suggestion of any disadvantages, so that everyone in their right mind should have SETs/horns.

If that is the case, why doesn't have everyone? Is it just ignorance, or could it be a matter of taste too? There are plenty of people who did hear SETs/horns, and who have not decided to adopt that system type themselves. Why?

 

[PeterA]

Sure, Peter.

Yet the tone hear lately has been so gushing as to seemingly imply that SETs/horns do everything incredibly well, without the suggestion of any disadvantages, so that everyone in their right mind should have SETs/horns.

If that is the case, why doesn't have everyone? Is it just ignorance, or could it be a matter of taste too? There are plenty of people who did hear SETs/horns, and who have not decided to adopt that system type themselves. Why?

No disagreements from me, Al. I am defending my Magico/Pass system to KeithR and others. I really enjoy it as you know, and I have for years. I am in no way suggesting that SET/horns is the only way toward natural sound. Clearly, I have described my pedestrian system as sounding natural. I am only interested in learning more and seeing if I can go further toward what I heard in Utah.

I shared the news that I am getting a new turntable and might later consider changing the rest of the system to pursue something similar to what I recently heard. I have asked my local friends if anyone is interested in buying my various components, so I can start to consider options. Strangely, there seems to be some resistance to this.

Marc seems to only be expressing his opinion. You have done the same for years about your monitors and you enthusiastically share why you think they do some things better for you than any alternative. We have discussed this privately for years too. However, we don't all agree about this stuff. Ack has done the same about his Spectral/MIT/Martin Logan/VPI system with serious modifications and his love for Shunyata. How is any of that different from what is being expressed here?

This is only my system thread in which I would like to discuss what I am thinking about. People have gone off topic to discuss what they want. Perhaps you could start a thread expressing your concerns and questions about speaker and amplifier typologies, particularly SET/horns. The discussion might be quite interesting.

For now, I am very happy with my Magico/Pass gear and looking forward to getting my new turntable which you can hear once you feel comfortable visiting others indoors.

 

[jeff1225]

Sure, Peter.

Yet the tone hear lately has been so gushing as to seemingly imply that SETs/horns do everything incredibly well, without the suggestion of any disadvantages, so that everyone in their right mind should have SETs/horns.

If that is the case, why doesn't have everyone? Is it just ignorance, or could it be a matter of taste too? There are plenty of people who did hear SETs/horns, and who have not decided to adopt that system type themselves. Why?

There are inherit problems with SET + horns that are mostly about practicality and WAF.

1. Horns have to be big, small horns suck
2. Horns have to be very efficient, high powered SET's lose the magic
3. New large horns are very expensive, Cessero's are $100K+
4. Vintage horns mostly look like crap
5. Most Vintage horns have been modified or otherwise messed up by previous owners
6. Vintage horns have to be repaired in some manner: enclosure, speaker surrounds, caps, etc

 

[Al M.]

No disagreements from me, Al. I am defending my Magico/Pass system to KeithR and others. I really enjoy it as you know, and I have for years. I am in no way suggesting that SET/horns is the only way toward natural sound. Clearly, I have described my pedestrian system as sounding natural. I am only interested in learning more and seeing if I can go further toward what I heard in Utah.

I shared the news that I am getting a new turntable and might later consider changing the rest of the system to pursue something similar to what I recently heard. I have asked my local friends if anyone is interested in buying my various components, so I can start to consider options. Strangely, there seems to be some resistance to this.

Marc seems to only be expressing his opinion. You have done the same for years about your monitors and you enthusiastically share why you think they do some things better for you than any alternative. We have discussed this privately for years too. However, we don't all agree about this stuff. Ack has done the same about his Spectral/MIT/Martin Logan/VPI system with serious modifications and his love for Shunyata. How is any of that different from what is being expressed here?

This is only my system thread in which I would like to discuss what I am thinking about. People have gone off topic to discuss what they want. Perhaps you could start a thread expressing your concerns and questions about speaker and amplifier typologies, particularly SET/horns. The discussion might be quite interesting.

For now, I am very happy with my Magico/Pass gear and looking forward to getting my new turntable which you can hear once you feel comfortable visiting others indoors.

Fair enough, Peter. That threads digress into other topics is natural. My own system thread has digressed too various times, at some point even into discussing vintage speakers , which I enjoyed. Even in the face of apologies by others for the diversion by the latter topic I did not take steps to impede the momentum until it faded on its own.

Personally I would feel more comfortable starting a thread about SETs/horns if I had more experience with both (I have some experience, but it is very limited). I am just curious. Certainly from posted videos I cannot gather much, they all sound just bad in my view. My system sounds 10 x better than any of those videos -- make that 50 x better -- but what do you expect from iPhone mics and A/D converters, and the YouTube compressed digital format?

 

[morricab]

If I was still a bachelor in London w no property restoration costs, rather than the $100k I need to find for the chapel.
If only horns were needed, I'd buy Audiophile Bill's horns in a shot (they easily best all the AGs, Cessaros, and Pnoes that I've auditioned), but I'd then need new amps and cart/phono.
I'm very happy with my version of "natural" sound I've evolved to over last 5 years, informed by live music and benchmarks of the best systems I've heard.
I'm the happiest w my sound by far I've ever been, I pretty much view the $50k I sunk into my audio room construction as the equivalent of a big spend on new spkrs, I can't justify both room AND spkrs.

Your electronics would suffice for the time being...upgrade stepwise...nothing wrong with that approach...

 

[morricab]

There are inherit problems with SET + horns that are mostly about practicality and WAF.

1. Horns have to be big, small horns suck
2. Horns have to be very efficient, high powered SET's lose the magic
3. New large horns are very expensive, Cessero's are $100K+
4. Vintage horns mostly look like crap
5. Most Vintage horns have been modified or otherwise messed up by previous owners
6. Vintage horns have to be repaired in some manner: enclosure, speaker surrounds, caps, etc

1. Define what is small and what is large. Your speakers, for example, are not so large and are actually only horn in the mid/high...not that this is a problem it's just not clear where your demarcation lies. Do you mean small, fully horn loaded speakers (i.e. also the bass)? What type of horn, because a TQWT loading is a type of horn that actually delivers a lot of punch in a more or less normal sized cabinet.
2. What is high powered here? Over 10 watts? Over 50 watts? I would not agree with this as I know several high power (30+ watts is my definition) SETs that have a lot of magic. The Lamm ML2.2 and ML3 could both be argued to be mid to high power SETs and both are reputed (I have only heard the ML2 and liked it a lot) to sound "magical".
3. True
4. In the eye of the beholder I would say but probably most spouses would agree with you (but they might think new horns are ugly too).
5. Not sure about this one.
6. Possibly a restoration would be necessary...better to find a pair restored in a correct manner probably if you can.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Your electronics would suffice for the time being...upgrade stepwise...nothing wrong with that approach...

Brad, OT for Peter's thread. I might address it on my own one.

 

[Al M.]

Brad, OT for Peter's thread. I might address it on my own one.

So are you planning to start a thread on the topic of SETs/horns, Marc?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Not a separate thread, just comments on my dedicated system discussion...well, I say discussion, but it's more like the "discussion" an angry old guy has in a slow moving queue Lol.

 

[Al M.]

Not a separate thread, just comments on my dedicated system discussion...well, I say discussion, but it's more like the "discussion" an angry old guy has in a slow moving queue Lol.

Ok, I'll start a separate thread today after all, thanks.

 

[Lagonda]

Not a separate thread, just comments on my dedicated system discussion...well, I say discussion, but it's more like the "discussion" an angry old guy has in a slow moving queue Lol.

Also known as "Marc's monologue" !

 

[spiritofmusic]

He drives me crazy. On and on and ON!

 

[Al M.]

Separate thread started:

SETs and Horns

There has been a lot of enthusiasm expressed on WBF about SETs and horns. Some passionate advocacy in discussions might even cause an impression that there are only advantages to this type of systems, no drawbacks. So apart from questions of practicality, such as size of horns, WAF and money to...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[microstrip]

(...) This is only my system thread in which I would like to discuss what I am thinking about. (...)

And as far as I see it, some people, including me, asked direct questions about your system and your strategy going towards natural sound. It is what I call a discussion.

 

[cjfrbw]

Ching Chengs are too expensive. 50 cent computer power cords from Goodwill and zip cord forever! Nothing like listening to $500 globe DHTs with zip cord. I'm wondering if lamp cord is better.

 

[andromedaaudio]

50 cent computer power cords

Lol
I can buy approximately 200 of the powercords i use as for what i paid for the pavarotti special edition tape

 

[howiebrou]

Sure, Peter.

Yet the tone hear lately has been so gushing as to seemingly imply that SETs/horns do everything incredibly well, without the suggestion of any disadvantages, so that everyone in their right mind should have SETs/horns.

If that is the case, why doesn't have everyone? Is it just ignorance, or could it be a matter of taste too? There are plenty of people who did hear SETs/horns, and who have not decided to adopt that system type themselves. Why?

Because not everyone is allowed to keep speakers that look like giant breast pumps...

 

[trekpilot]

Peter,
Congratulations on the new turntable!
Is the Micro Seiki replacing your SME or will you now have 2 tables?

Scott

 

[PeterA]

Peter,
Congratulations on the new turntable!
Is the Micro Seiki replacing your SME or will you now have 2 tables?

Scott

Thank you very much, Scott. I do not yet know the answer to that question. I will likely sell the SME, but we will see. If anyone is interested, please PM me.

 

[ddk]

Well for sure there is a pair here or there...but are they available, what condition and what price...all that adds up to unobtanium because even if we all wanted and could afford them AND had space for them AND our wives (or whatever) woudl accept them would there be enough to service all of WBF? I doubt it. I guess we can't all become DDK disciples afterall... I will have to be satisfied with lesser sized horns .

What disciples Brad? I know I'm getting old but I still got it don't make me Yoda! Peter's a valued friend and client are your customers disciples?

david