The owner just left after another listening session. We have had it in my system for three days now. Lots of listening and adjustments. He knows better the details, but I do think Richard Krebs has had this table go through his hands. If I share any impressions, they will most likely be in a new thread with a link to this one for system details. So far it is sounding very good.
Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
The owner just left after another listening session. We have had it in my system for three days now. Lots of listening and adjustments. He knows better the details, but I do think Richard Krebs has had this table go through his hands. If I share any impressions, they will most likely be in a new thread with a link to this one for system details. So far it is sounding very good.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Be careful because IIRC that is how ddk started and we have all seen his museum of turn tables
Funny. No worry of that Steve. Budget constraints and lack of a dedicated listening room prevent that possibility. I'm even doing this all while my wife is in Vienna for ten days on business because of the disruption to our dining and living rooms. It is a lot of fun though, and my friend and I are learning a lot.
Hi,
I noticed In another thread you have the JPS lab AC Cable. At some point I am planning on dedicated AC lines.
Can you comment on the JPS and what else you considered and what improvement it made ?
Thanks in advance.
I noticed In another thread you have the JPS lab AC Cable. At some point I am planning on dedicated AC lines.
Can you comment on the JPS and what else you considered and what improvement it made ?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, I do have these JPS Labs AC In-Wall cables. I use three 15' runs. Each is connected to a separate 20A circuit in the panel, then runs through a hole in the floor and is then terminated into a Furutech IEC plug which is then inserted into each amp, and my power distributor. I bought these cables on advice from my dealer at the time. They replaced standard electrical wiring in my walls. I can't say if it is the quality of the wiring, or the elimination of all connections (outlets), or a combination of the two. But the sound became cleaner and the noise floor was lowered. JPS told me at the time that it would sound even better if I used high quality outlets and their 3' power cables, but I decided to save the money and can not know which solution would be better.
I did not consider any brands. I did this about ten years ago. I like the simple/direct approach in principle, but I have no real experience with other alternatives.
I sent my MSL Signature Gold cartridge back to Japan for a rebuild because the cantilever was slightly skewed. The cartridge has now been back in my system for 50 or so hours and it continues to improve. I now feel that this is the best cartridge that I have had in my system. I still like the Supreme, but this rebuilt Sig. Gold has all of the Supreme's strengths, but is also more extended in both the highs and lows, is more dynamic, and more resolving across the frequency spectrum. It also seems to have more energy and it sounds more natural in my system.
Here is a post I just wrote for my MSL/AirTight cartridge comparison thread, explaining some more about the MSL and my evolving thoughts about how my system is evolving:
"Hi John, I can't really say. I picked up this particular cartridge from the US Distributor, A J Conti. It belonged to a friend of mine in Europe who offered to let me try it in my system. It only had about 20 hours on it, so I took it home, and gave it a listen. If I liked it, I could buy it, if not, I would try to sell it for him on Audiogon. Needless to say, it sounded great, so I decided to buy it from him. The cantilever was very slightly off when I bought it, so he gave me a great deal, and this would have made it more difficult to sell to someone else. I could barely see with my naked eyes the degree to which the cantilever was skewed.
During the six months or so that I spent directly comparing it to my reference cartridge, the Supreme, for the subject of this thread, I was able to align it by slightly rotating the cartridge (Zenith) in the headshell. Then, after about a year, I noticed that I could barely align the cantilever within the guide markings on my MINT protractor. That is when I concluded the cantilever was in fact moving slightly, so I decided to send it back to Japan.
I can't say if it was originally caused by some accident, as I bought it in this condition, if it was the suspension slowly giving out, or some other defect. Regardless, it is now basically a new cartridge inside the old shell, and it continues to surprise me as it improves during the break in process, 50 hours so far. Perhaps this Fall, I will reinstall the Supreme for another comparison, but right now, I am just thrilled with what I am hearing. When it was gone for the rebuild, I listened to the Supreme, and it sounded tremendous. That is the cartridge I think you heard in my system, years ago.
I can not really imagine what the new and improved generation of these two cartridges, the AirTight Opus, and the MSL Signature Platinum, sound like. I would love to read a direct comparison between either of these and the Goldfinger Statement, although all three are beyond my means. The really exciting part, though, is that my system has basically remained unchanged for three years, and yet, as I learn more about cartridge loading and set up, plus this rebuilt MSL breaking in, my system seems to still be slightly improving, without additional expensive upgrades or changes.
This has changed my thinking about the relative importance of component selection, proper system set up, and fine tuning, whether it be with front end adjustments in an analog system or the selection of filters and settings in a digital system, or the judicious placement of room treatments, speakers and listening seat locations. All of these cost little but time, experimentation, and a willingness to learn and listen carefully. This is consistent with my experience of hearing great systems and with observations I have read from more experienced audiophiles on forums like this one: The quality of a system is not guaranteed by the level of components but rather by their careful selection, proper set up, and judicious fine tuning. This is ultimately what makes a satisfying system and listening experience."
Here is a post I just wrote for my MSL/AirTight cartridge comparison thread, explaining some more about the MSL and my evolving thoughts about how my system is evolving:
"Hi John, I can't really say. I picked up this particular cartridge from the US Distributor, A J Conti. It belonged to a friend of mine in Europe who offered to let me try it in my system. It only had about 20 hours on it, so I took it home, and gave it a listen. If I liked it, I could buy it, if not, I would try to sell it for him on Audiogon. Needless to say, it sounded great, so I decided to buy it from him. The cantilever was very slightly off when I bought it, so he gave me a great deal, and this would have made it more difficult to sell to someone else. I could barely see with my naked eyes the degree to which the cantilever was skewed.
During the six months or so that I spent directly comparing it to my reference cartridge, the Supreme, for the subject of this thread, I was able to align it by slightly rotating the cartridge (Zenith) in the headshell. Then, after about a year, I noticed that I could barely align the cantilever within the guide markings on my MINT protractor. That is when I concluded the cantilever was in fact moving slightly, so I decided to send it back to Japan.
I can't say if it was originally caused by some accident, as I bought it in this condition, if it was the suspension slowly giving out, or some other defect. Regardless, it is now basically a new cartridge inside the old shell, and it continues to surprise me as it improves during the break in process, 50 hours so far. Perhaps this Fall, I will reinstall the Supreme for another comparison, but right now, I am just thrilled with what I am hearing. When it was gone for the rebuild, I listened to the Supreme, and it sounded tremendous. That is the cartridge I think you heard in my system, years ago.
I can not really imagine what the new and improved generation of these two cartridges, the AirTight Opus, and the MSL Signature Platinum, sound like. I would love to read a direct comparison between either of these and the Goldfinger Statement, although all three are beyond my means. The really exciting part, though, is that my system has basically remained unchanged for three years, and yet, as I learn more about cartridge loading and set up, plus this rebuilt MSL breaking in, my system seems to still be slightly improving, without additional expensive upgrades or changes.
This has changed my thinking about the relative importance of component selection, proper system set up, and fine tuning, whether it be with front end adjustments in an analog system or the selection of filters and settings in a digital system, or the judicious placement of room treatments, speakers and listening seat locations. All of these cost little but time, experimentation, and a willingness to learn and listen carefully. This is consistent with my experience of hearing great systems and with observations I have read from more experienced audiophiles on forums like this one: The quality of a system is not guaranteed by the level of components but rather by their careful selection, proper set up, and judicious fine tuning. This is ultimately what makes a satisfying system and listening experience."
You're on a HUGE point here. The merry go round of equipment changes can sometimes mask set up tweaks that sometimes yield a better musical outcome. And the more time your system is set/not changing the more you notice the little things. Nudging a speaker 1/8th inch, moving a room treatment a few inches one way or the other. Or super fine tuning cartridge set up.
I'll never forget my "college" system. I didn't have much cash. Bought all used. Had maybe 3k total in that system. But just was killer and so musically involving. (ARC SP6b, ARC D79, Linn LP12, Denon MC and Maggies). It's where I learned about set up...
I had the great fortune to listen to another live performance in a private residence in Boston this evening. Fellow members Al M. and MadFloyd joined me. Jonathan Miller, Cello, and Lucia Lin, Violin, both from the BSO performed Bach Suite No. 5 in C minor for Cello, Bach Sonata No. 3 in C major for Violin, and Ravel Sonata in Four Parts for Violin and Cello. It was a wonderful performance and a reminder of what real, live acoustic music sounds like in an intimate setting. What a great reference for assessing the performance of our systems.
Al M. and I heard Mr. Miller and a pianist perform in this same space two years ago.
Sublime Sound indeed.
Al M. and I heard Mr. Miller and a pianist perform in this same space two years ago.
Sublime Sound indeed.
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Bruce B mentioned that of all the cables he measured with a a voltage meter, only the JPS had no readings
Yes, I saw that comment. I distinctly remember the drop in noise floor when my electrician installed my three JPS In Wall cables from separate, dedicated 20 amp circuits, terminated with Furutech IEC connectors and then plugged directly into my components. No outlets anywhere. I have not tried JPS ICs or speaker cables.
Agree totally. I have created these 'isolation sandwiches' with HRS or Stillpoints under all the components...and mass damping of weight on top of proper HRS/Stillpoints/Artesania dampers. By mass damping, i mean as much as 7kg-20kg on top of any given component...and closer to 40kg on top of the sub and rising to 50kg shortly.
Just this weekend, i realized that the mass damper setup on top of the transport was not exactly centered...and so i centered it...about 2mm while the system was off. we went for a run, and turned on the system later that afternoon.
While working, i kept looking around the system every 30 min or so to see if something was unplugged, or maybe i had disconnected a grounding post. I thought maybe the powergrid was particularly bad though we never seemed to have had that problem in the last several months since moving. I was really frustrated, and thought maybe it was just something i had only now realized was missing in the system.
...then i remembered that i had moved the mass damper setup on top of the transport about 2mm just to center them. I put them back so it was again off-center by 2mm or so. Bingo.
What a incredible experience. I don't suppose you could record it. I have heard a few things recorded to a small Nagra recorder that sounds pretty sweet.
ps, thanks for the invite friend(just teasing)
Sorry John, no recording or invitation, this time. The performance, however, is recorded in my mind for future system, and perhaps tonearm, calibration. Now, it is time to pull out my Starker/Mercury LP of Bach's Cello Suite No. 5 and listen again, this time with a very solid reference etched into my memory.
What is also fun, is that now, Al M., MadFloyd, and I can discuss that sound as we visit each other's systems and learn what we each took away from that live sound. For me it was the sheer vibrational energy, with all of its shadings and color, exploding into the room and how full of sound the room was. There was such an immediacy and power to the sound.
Yes, it is crazy stuff...if i had not come to this because i was struggling with an obvious (to me) problem with the system (that was then solved after moving it BACK to its original spot only 2mm away), i would not have believed it myself.
That is wild, just from the position of a dampening plate on a piece of gear? I have found that 2mm at the speaker for toe-in or 2mm up or down in tonearm height can make a significant difference too, but that is less surprising.
I agree with you Peter...it never occurred to me for HOURS...and it was 'killing me' while i was working. I did not dare say anything to my wife, but i kept looking up from my screen trying to figure out what it could be. I did not want to start an audio witch hunt for the problem, and frankly did not have the time.
It was not until around 1am when we finished up work, that as I was listening carefully before shutting off the system i remembered.
In the final analysis, I have found tremendous improvement in creating 'isolation sandwiches' for all the boxes in the system (10 boxes of electronics, plus speakers and sub), and as this has continued to advance, i have noticed that it helps hone the voice of the system more and more to such a point where these minute changes do make a difference.
Of course the tortuous question is...have i missed the placement of some of my isolation/dampers by WAY more than a stupid 2mm someplace else in the system, where i could have a HUGE improvement? Personally, having tortuously placed each piece of damping on multiple locations before settling on the final location, i suspect/trust not. But then again, i am certainly still learning so who knows!
Personally, having tortuously placed each piece of damping on multiple locations before settling on the final location, i suspect/trust not. But then again, i am certainly still learning so who knows!I don't know if I was inspired by recently reading Bonzo's report of MikeL's system or influenced by the violin and cello recital I heard the other night, but I decided to tinker some more with my system the other day. The system is mature, in the sense that the components have not changed for quite some time now, and the system has remained more or less static. I am very familiar with its sound, but after reading again the lengths to which Mike went to improve the acoustics of his room, and with the memory of energy from that live cello vibrating in my brain, I listened to some well recorded strings on LP and decided the sound lacked clarity and a degree of realism.
After much procrastination, and because of recent nudging from an audio buddy, I removed the three glass framed paintings on the wall of my listening room. One was actually hanging above the small absorption panel at the first reflection point on the right wall. I repeated the same string tracks and immediately noticed a cleaner, more focused sound. Dynamics improved, images became more palpable, overall clarity increased. I had been hearing a slight blurring to the sound and distortion in the higher frequencies because of the reflections off of the glass. With the decrease in distortion and the increase in clarity, the music became more energetic while I could be more relaxed. Everything took a step toward sounding more natural. I can now listen a bit louder at more realistic levels, and overall musical enjoyment has increased.
I continue to be impressed by the improvements that small, seemingly incidental changes can bring. The wall now looks pretty bare, and considering that this is our living room, I plan to remove the glass from the picture frames and rehang the art on the walls. That way, my wife will be happy with the aesthetics, and I will be happy with the sound.
Here is another example of how sweating the small stuff can bring about big returns.
After much procrastination, and because of recent nudging from an audio buddy, I removed the three glass framed paintings on the wall of my listening room. One was actually hanging above the small absorption panel at the first reflection point on the right wall. I repeated the same string tracks and immediately noticed a cleaner, more focused sound. Dynamics improved, images became more palpable, overall clarity increased. I had been hearing a slight blurring to the sound and distortion in the higher frequencies because of the reflections off of the glass. With the decrease in distortion and the increase in clarity, the music became more energetic while I could be more relaxed. Everything took a step toward sounding more natural. I can now listen a bit louder at more realistic levels, and overall musical enjoyment has increased.
I continue to be impressed by the improvements that small, seemingly incidental changes can bring. The wall now looks pretty bare, and considering that this is our living room, I plan to remove the glass from the picture frames and rehang the art on the walls. That way, my wife will be happy with the aesthetics, and I will be happy with the sound.
Here is another example of how sweating the small stuff can bring about big returns.
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