Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 25 71.4%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Total voters
    35

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
33
8
85
Very interesting, so it seems coiling the fibre has a significant attenuation effect. Not so surprising, when one thinks about it.

Here is a link to a page on signal attenuation in optical fibers, and cable bend is mentioned as a factor https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/suppo...ioning-platform-mspp/27042-max-att-27042.html

thanks for a great post !
Oh, and thank you for the link to the Cisco optical networking article. Very interesting reading and I appreciate you taking the time.

Best regards,

Steve
 

Kingsrule

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
871
123
130
Circling back for a moment, I set up a fiber-optic link between my network equipment and my not-Extreme Innuos Zenith server, using Emile’s recommended components.

Initially I just left the fiber coiled up and put the optical link in series with the existing 50’ of CAT 6 copper ethernet running under the floor from office to stereo rack. I could immediately hear a significant improvement in clarity and transparency, with no loss of body and bass power.

However, a friend who is also following this thread set up the same fiber link and removed his copper ethernet. He heard the same improvements, but also a hardness with the fiber in his system. So today, rather than crawl under the house and permanently install the fiber in place of my copper, I tried another experiment and laid out the fiber around the edge of the floor and removed the long run of copper from my system. Not only did I hear the same hardness, quite a bit of the liquidity and relaxed clarity that I enjoy about my stereo disappeared as well.

Luckily, I had ordered four -5 db optical attenuators referenced a bit later in this thread, so I inserted a pair at each end of the fiber. Voila! Hardness gone; clarity, transparency and that liquidity all back in spades. Evidently, in an optical system designed to transit up to 80 km but only using about 20 m of fiber, attenuators are necessary to avoid saturating and driving into distortion the optical receivers. At least, that’s what I hear.

All said and done, a very significant improvement overall to the sound quality and musical enjoyment of my digital playback.

And, I’m ready now for that Extreme in my future. Thanks to Emile and all who posted information about the optical networking components.

Steve Z
It doesn't make sense to put the 5db attenuators on both ends of a fiber run....or does it ??
 

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
33
8
85
If you are going to protect the receivers you want to protect them at both SFPs, right? Bi-directional communications.

We're audiophiles, so the main purpose of the attenuators is sound quality. The protection of the receivers is just an unintended consequence (but a good one)!
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
150
16
95
Kirkland, WA
It doesn't make sense to put the 5db attenuators on both ends of a fiber run....or does it ??
That's a good question. A few interesting finds in the manual for the Startech SFPs:

SFP modules are designed to transmit signals over large distances. If the physical wiring distance is too short, the transmitting optical signal (laser) may be too strong and damage the receiving SFP module. An in-line optical attenuator may be required to protect them from damage.

And

The SFP transceiver module supports a maximum distance of up to 80 km (49.7 mi)

Attenuators might be a must with these particular SFPs for the shorter lengths we might use in our homes.
 
Likes: onsionsi

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
91
31
48
I sounds like, from the quote below, that they may only be used at one end? So a 5 db at one end would attenuate at total of 5 db. And I assume using a 5 db attenuator at both ends would give a total of 10 db.

I'm wondering on a 15 meter run, what the recommended attenuation would be?

From the web:
"The most common version of attenuators are male to female units, often called plug-style or buildout style. These plug-style attenuators simply mount on one end of a fiber optic cable, allowing that cable to be plugged into the receiving equipment or panel."
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2015
352
161
73
Monaco
Likes: matthias

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Emile

you need to put up some photos in our media section of your room

Those speakers are killer
 

nonesup

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2017
410
63
45
Spain
At the moment the Alsyvox are the speakers that I would most like to hear.
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
150
16
95
Kirkland, WA
I'm wondering on a 15 meter run, what the recommended attenuation would be?
I'm wondering as well if there's a way to calculate this.

I just installed a pair of 10 db attenuators on the server side and a pair of 5 db attenuators on the other side. Treble is much improved though still a little hot on recordings that have that tendency anyway.

What I didn't expect was an improvement to bass with the attenuators. It's better balanced now where it seemed a little bloated at times initially.

I just ordered four 20 db attenuators just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm generally really liking what I'm hearing but I just want to hear if more attenuation impacts sound quality.
 
Likes: BMCG

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,651
780
208
Hong Kong
Emile

you need to put up some photos in our media section of your room Taiko

Those speakers are killer
Killers they are!
The monoandstereo.com news contains some photos.
But Emile please give some good ones to WBF for posting.

DSCF2981~2.jpg
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,651
780
208
Hong Kong
Hello WBF brothers,
Please read my update of #383 on the following thread :
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ing-of-usb-network-gadget-setup.27758/page-20

20200115_224942~2.jpg

Steve and all Extreme owner brothers please note :
For even a server as good as the Extreme, the home network pathway must be tweaked carefully.
Otherwise the full performance/potential of the Extreme cannot be realized.

Last night we tried plugging the Extreme directly into the home internet router, followed by adding SOtM+ER, then SOtMx2.
Each steps gave very audible and significant sonic improvement.

To be frank, every steps/components in the CAS system matter.
The better the system/components are, the more obvious will be any changes/tweaks to affect the final sonic result.
;)
 
Last edited:

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hello WBF brothers,
Please read my update of #383 on the following thread :
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ing-of-usb-network-gadget-setup.27758/page-20

View attachment 60704

Steve and all Extreme owner brothers please note :
For even a server as good as the Extreme, the home network pathway must be tweaked carefully.
Otherwise the full performance/potential of the Extreme cannot be realized.

Last night we tried plugging the Extreme directly into the home internet router, followed by adding SOtM+ER, then SOtMx2.
Each steps gave very audible and significant sonic improvement.

To be frank, every steps/components in the CAS system matter.
The better the system/components are, the more obvious will be any changes/tweaks to affect the final sonic result.
;)
I’ll sit this dance out CK.
 

Kris

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
186
71
28
45
Hello WBF brothers,
Please read my update of #383 on the following thread :
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ing-of-usb-network-gadget-setup.27758/page-20

View attachment 60704

Steve and all Extreme owner brothers please note :
For even a server as good as the Extreme, the home network pathway must be tweaked carefully.
Otherwise the full performance/potential of the Extreme cannot be realized.

Last night we tried plugging the Extreme directly into the home internet router, followed by adding SOtM+ER, then SOtMx2.
Each steps gave very audible and significant sonic improvement.

To be frank, every steps/components in the CAS system matter.
The better the system/components are, the more obvious will be any changes/tweaks to affect the final sonic result.
;)
I confirm .
Tested extreme with many different components and CKK is 100% right.
it could sond really bad if you have very poor network like I do.
Adding quality switches and supplys on the network side changes very significant SQ.
It also improves SQ very significant if you play from optane storage !
Usung recommended by Emile Startech MC with optical SFP is a must.
Galvanic isolation is mandatory in poor network places.

But using attenuators was a very BAD idea in my system.
I used 4 x 5db attenuators,
it creates a fake space and for unexperience listener it sounds attractive
but details are lost and sound is not crisp anymore. focus is not there anymore.
Test it and you will see what happens.
You better invest in top power supply abd DC cables on the network side !
this brings all the best things with true 3D and hammer sound control so your extreme will shine As never before.

also I am testing the set of SR 45 blue fuses withSR 45 blac fuses
against Emile recommended Schurter 45 fuses
as a reference point there are OM fuses.
Very interesting results !
will post it once I finish the last few tests.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,038
1,069
180
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Emile

you need to put up some photos in our media section of your room

Those speakers are killer
Will do!

Killers they are!
The monoandstereo.com news contains some photos.
But Emile please give some good ones to WBF for posting.
Ok, I will do a write up / post something asap!
 

Blackmorec

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
204
225
43
67
As I pointed out before somewhere in this thread, the network supply stream responds very positively indeed to 6 tuning strategies;
  • High quality switches and routers.
  • Ultra-low noise, low ripple linear power supplies on ALL network components
  • High quality, exceptionally well screened ethernet cables
  • Ultra-high quality, well screened DC cables
  • Vibration control of all network devices including modems, routers, switches etc.
  • Electrical Isolation
In fact, what I’ve found is that when it comes to the network supply stream, the law of diminishing returns absolutely does not apply.....the more carefully you set up your network, the better and more revealing your system becomes, the greater the SQ improvements become!. This is in no place better demonstrated than with running in. The system starts out sounding utterly magical and totally beguiling, but something as simple as a new DC cable robs the system of some of its naturalness and musicality, leaving it sounding more hi-fi like and electronic. The better your system becomes, the more profound this effect
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
849
445
150
As I pointed out before somewhere in this thread, the network supply stream responds very positively indeed to 6 tuning strategies;
  • High quality switches and routers.
  • Ultra-low noise, low ripple linear power supplies on ALL network components
  • High quality, exceptionally well screened ethernet cables
  • Ultra-high quality, well screened DC cables
  • Vibration control of all network devices including modems, routers, switches etc.
  • Electrical Isolation
In fact, what I’ve found is that when it comes to the network supply stream, the law of diminishing returns absolutely does not apply.....the more carefully you set up your network, the better and more revealing your system becomes, the greater the SQ improvements become!. This is in no place better demonstrated than with running in. The system starts out sounding utterly magical and totally beguiling, but something as simple as a new DC cable robs the system of some of its naturalness and musicality, leaving it sounding more hi-fi like and electronic. The better your system becomes, the more profound this effect
Oh dear, of your 6 crucial elements, I am missing.........6

i have
Switching power supplies on all modems, routers and switches. Some are on cupboards, some on lamp tables, some on the floor. My best switch costs a hefty $15 or so. Cabling is all lowest quality Cat 5E. They are plugged into an assortment of plugs, most of which have at least 10-20 buzzing LEDs on the same circuit and none are on any kind of vibration control (what kind of vibration control are we talking about? surely not hi Fi racks for our routers and switches?).:eek:
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
130
61
58
Blackmorec, your understanding is absolutely correct!

A high quality network setup can become so revealing and affect ALL downstream equipment that even more care and attention is often required over and above how one would normally treat the main system via tweaks and upgrades.

In that, meaning objectively almost all upgrades in a network results in improvements, but it does possibly also come with cons in regards to overall musicality.

Every item added must be carefully auditioned with care!

I have no further requirements with some aspects such as details, clarity and attack with the music.

It may sound ridiculous, but i have actually tuned my network to have less details and intensity to present a slightly warmer, fuller holistic sound.

Although there are so many equipment and cables in my network, just 1 change of just 1 a footer used which does not synergise sonically would be quite detrimental to the sonic presentation.

Eveything matters!
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,038
1,069
180
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
For even a server as good as the Extreme, the home network pathway must be tweaked carefully.
Otherwise the full performance/potential of the Extreme cannot be realized.
Indeed when going there, in a high level system, it should be considered as finetuning to extract the maximum performance. An issue is that results are not always repeatable across different systems, like Kris just mentioning he does not like the optical attenuators, where others do. I completely believe both sides as I have personally observed, and received a lot of feedback, with conflicting results.

One of the reasons I pulled the trigger on the Alsyvox loudspeakers is that they allow me to discern certain things the in house Focals do not render well enough. As an example, it is important to me to have the proper balance between initial incident, like in a piano the hammer hitting the snare, or the string being plucked on a guitar, accurate timbral textures of the instrument individual parts resonance, and proper decay. Personal taste or system could make one desire to tweak to highlight the snare resonance, or the instrument body resonance, or the decay audibility. But from a designer perspective, they should be in balance to sound as authentic as possible. Altering the frequency balance, and adjusting EMI/RFI spectrum patterns can influence equipment behaviour and/or our perception of these events.

The Sotm switches are in the process of clearing customs right now, the Ether Regen and Telegartner M12 switches are already here. My intention is to make my own assessment of how all of these perform, though not on an absolute level perhaps, but more on my perspective on how to use them. For example I'm pretty sure the way I am using the Telegartner M12 now is not the way it would typically be used.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,038
1,069
180
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
It may sound ridiculous, but i have actually tuned my network to have less details and intensity to present a slightly warmer, fuller holistic sound.
Not ridiculous at all, well done Sir!

Although there are so many equipment and cables in my network, just 1 change of just 1 a footer used which does not synergise sonically would be quite detrimental to the sonic presentation.
I have to agree to this being a primary consideration.
 
Likes: justubes

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high-end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing