Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 33 75.0%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 9.1%

  • Total voters
    44

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2015
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Monaco
We are finding this with a lot of Extreme customers as they push down the noise floor of their systems, the effect of footers (good and not so good) is accentuated. It seems to make choice of footer somewhat easier as the differences between footers are more discernible.
 
Likes: Esotar

Esotar

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Mar 28, 2016
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As my opinion, DAIZA is the best choice.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
As my opinion, DAIZA is the best choice.

and IMO Center Stage 1.5's are second to none when it comes to using footers under the Extreme
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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and IMO Center Stage 1.5's are second to none when it comes to using footers under the Extreme
which begs the question; have you compared the Daiza or double Daiza to the CS 1.5's under the Extreme?
 

Esotar

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Mar 28, 2016
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and IMO Center Stage 1.5's are second to none when it comes to using footers under the Extreme

I'm very interested with your products.

As I know, Emile will test CS footers.

If his opinion is positive, I'll test CS footers, too.

^^
 

Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
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which begs the question; have you compared the Daiza or double Daiza to the CS 1.5's under the Extreme?

By your pictures, I tested double DAIZA.

I was very surprised~!!! HA HA

Thanks for good tip, Mike~!
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
which begs the question; have you compared the Daiza or double Daiza to the CS 1.5's under the Extreme?

Mike

The obvious answer is I haven't BUT neither have you tried CS feet


I'm sure there are many roads to Rome Mike . I just think feet are a far simpler solution. When you start talking double Daiza Mike, I can simply reply that all you need are 4 CS feet under the Extreme and call it a day (or as you would call it a Daiza ;))
Perhaps triple Daiza will even sound better

If a product is good from the design, then why do you need 2 of them to make it sound better??

I maintain that a set of good feet under the Extreme pays huge dividends. I'm not denying a double Daiza is great Mike but it begs the question "why"
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Mike

The obvious answer is I haven't.....
then why make such statements? you are the manufacturer and this is your forum and you just shoot from the hip like it's nothing. it's not nothing. it's wrong.

.....BUT neither have you tried CS feet.
and i only show the CS feet respect over and over and never claim the Daiza's surpass it. we are not talking here about claims i made.

I'm sure there are many roads to Rome Mike . I just think feet are a far simpler solution. When you start talking double Daiza Mike, I can simply reply that all you need are 4 CS feet under the Extreme and call it a day (or as you would call it a Daiza ;))
Perhaps triple Daiza will even sound better

If a product is good from the design, then why do you need 2 of them to make it sound better??

I maintain that a set of good feet under the Extreme pays huge dividends. I'm not denying a double Daiza is great Mike but it begs the question "why"
and why would you already own $100k of Critical Mass racks and still need to add $20k worth of CS footers?

pot....meet kettle.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Mike

I have the highest of respect for Emile and his products.and I am not in the least dissing them. The comment came as a result of using footers under the Extreme. I went my way and love it. You went yours and you love it.


In fact Emile has said in this thread repeatedly that a good set of footers is all one needs

Mike, did someone pee in your breakfast cereal this morning or are you just being argumentative. If you think that yours is the only way to create a great result i say you are woefully wrong as there are many roads to achieve success. I have learned a lot in this thread Mike. I have watched Emile test all sorts of switches and routers and cables at the request of members and he gives his opinion. He has said here so many times that a set of good footers are better than most of the other things he has tested

As far as spending money Mike, I strongly suggest you have a look in the mirror before you comment to anyone on this forum about what they have invested before you take pot shots at me or any one here as I personally find your comment bothersome

This is a thread where users all over the world are using different means to an end and it is all discussed here so for you to make comments and to single me out is IMHO poor judgement on your part. Your suggestion that because Emile manufactures the Daiza it is unreasonable to comment about any other product.......Seriously Mike, IMO you are way out of line and talking about money coming from you I find almost laughable.

Emile was at my house as I was adding a set of 1.5's under my Extreme. He only heard it early on in the settle process but was impressed with the changes he heard.

Nuff said
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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E. England
Steve, I thought "early on in the settling process" was the worst time to make any judgement or draw an opinion of the effects of yr footers. Indeed the thread on CS, and warnings from you, are replete w strongly worded comments that gear sounds abyssmal until well into the process, if I'm not incorrect, well over a week. The thread banged on about this continuously to the point you loosened yr trial period stipulation.

And now you're saying the Extreme was IMPROVED during that period, where every other component markedly sounds worse. I am even more impressed w the Extreme.
 
Last edited:

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Steve,

you know good and well that my post has zero to do with the performance of any footers and everything to do with your touting the CS footers inappropriately as a manufacturer, and forum owner. dial it down a little.

maybe others don't want to upset you. i'm your long time friend, who recently posted about my visit to you and gave quite a bit of credit to what i heard to the CS footers. my own gut opinion is likely the CS footers are better than the Daiza's. but that is not what i was talking about.

that's all from me about this.
 
Dec 8, 2019
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Sound qualities in terms of clarity, density, resolution, micro dynamics and soundstage are improved quite a lot by switching to an audio-graded DC cable and by connecting eR to an external clock and a ground box.
How is your ER connected to the ground box? By a LAN port or the ground screw?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve, I thought "early on in the settling process" was the worst time to make any judgement or draw an opinion of the effects of yr footers. Indeed the thread on CS, and warnings from you, are replete w strongly worded comments that gear sounds abyssmal until well into the process, if I'm not incorrect, well over a week. The thread banged on about this continuously to the point you loosened yr trial period stipulation.

And now you're saying the Extreme was IMPROVED during that period, where every other component markedly sounds worse. I am even more impressed w the Extreme.
I did say thatMarc but That was long ago in the version one of the product. So you’re a bit off there. Also not only do version 2 footers settle quicker but IME the fastest to settle are the 1.5’s for reasons I cannot explain. I have found the quickest settle in for me was using 1.5’s under the Extreme . Marc, I am merely saying that there are many ways to skin a cat. No right or wrong. It’s what sounds best for you

As for double Daiza I am not the least bit dissing it. In fact I have had a chat withEmile several weeks back about the Daiza. I suggested that perhaps he could readily make available two sizes, a single and a double for those very reasons. You are all misinterpreting my I intent as it was never a jab at Emile.IMO Emile is a star and should be in the Audio Hall of Fame as he has changed the way I listen to music and for that I will forever be indebted.

Having said that my point was merely that I commented on the feet I use when suddenly there was an argument and an accusation of monies spent. To me what people spend on their system is no one else’s business and just like politics, monetary costs in a person’s system is not something I feel warrants discussion here

Now to answer the question as to why I needed footers under my component when I am already using CMS racks. The answer is identical to going double Daiza but with a huge qualification

Joe makes 3 levels of racks all of which are bigger, heavier and far more expensive than the models which precede it. All I could afford is the entry level but I have heard the next level up at Jack’s and his brother Jim when I visited The Philippines and it easily trumped mine.Then Joe came out with the Olympus which is his TOL and I can honestly say that I have never heard better sound when the Olympus is used. The cost and time to make these things is extensive. I could never afford them as I presently have my entire front and back end components on the entry level system and I love it. I have. So here is the secret sauce and it has been mentioned several times on WBF since CS were brought to market. Simply put, using CS feet with CMS shelves ups the user to the next level. So for me, having heard Jack and brother Jim’s systems each all in with the next level up CMS which I couldn’t afford but fell in love with. I moved up to their level using feet which I could afford to a level higher than mine which sonically was better. So for me that’s the answer to the $20K question. That investment which I could afford brought me to a level which I couldn't afford. I only envy Jack and Jim as they are now with the use of CS feet at the highest CMS level without having to be so heavily invested. Long and the short of it we are talking the same thing here as I I understand what Mike says wrt double Daiza. Hence my long answer as to I why I use CS feet with my CMS racks. It was indeed a money thing as countless users and reviews have deemed them system changers.Break in with version 2 is much quicker

Sorry for the ramble but with Marc stirring the pot, I felt a comprehensive answer was needed.

To me this thread is the best thread on WBF and that is not because of me or WBF bur rather due to a product and manufacturer that IMO is second to none in its class and also for the users that have reached their Valhalla as a result of this thread and sharing them here .I consider Emile a once in a while gift that this hobby gets
 

sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
938
84
85
Round Rock, TX
SGM Extreme - 2 week experience: Part II

The fastest SSDs have the lowest latencies but also generate a high frequency noise that I find fatiguing with long term listening and cannot be completely ameliorated with SATA filters or by cleanly powering the SSD. Just because you power an SSD with a high quality linear power supply doesn't prevent that SSD from generating high frequency noise. This is apparently not noticeable by all given how commonly SSDs are used in music servers today but I have purposely avoided using an SSD as an OS drive (which is incessantly being accessed by the OS even during music playback) in any of my builds since late 2018. I have even gone so far as to use a compact flash as an OS drive but as these are very high latency storage devices, they create as many problems as they fix and proved to be a less than ideal solution. In late 2018, through the reporting of others, I began using Optane drives for the operating system and these drives have proven to be the ideal solution. Optane drives have very low "RAM like" latencies but also have a noise spectrum that is more like RAM than an SSD which is to say they do not cause the same fatiguing HF noise. It was quite refreshing to find that the Extreme uses an Optane drive for its OS.
Can you please explain how you verified the high frequency noise you reported from SSDs? Was it audible and / or measurable?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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Would a pure USB-DAC (powered by the USB Vbus) take advantage of the superb power supply in the Extreme?
How much mA can the Extreme deliver to an USB-DAC?
Hi Matt,

It can supply 3A continuous but powering a whole DAC from it, not so sure that would lead to optimal results. A lot of DACS have their USB receiver powered by the server but the I2S side by DAC power supplies.
 
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Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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taikoaudio.com
To me this thread is the best thread on WBF and that is not because of me or WBF bur rather due to a product and manufacturer that IMO is second to none in its class and also for the users that have reached their Valhalla as a result of this thread and sharing them here. I consider Emile a once in a while gift that this hobby gets
Thank you Steve, that is a big compliment!
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2015
367
192
73
Monaco
Can you please explain how you verified the high frequency noise you reported from SSDs? Was it audible and / or measurable?
The audible noise in a playback system coming from RF emissions transmitted by operating SSD's is a well known phenomena. Multi Level Cell are worse sounding than Single Level Cell.

I would be possible to measure the RF coming off Optane storage, and compare that to the RF emissions coming from MLC and SLC SSD's. It also explains why better shielded SATA cables result in better sounding systems. The emissions coming off a SSD are in the Gigahertz band and very difficult to attenuate effectively
 
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vhs

Member
Dec 12, 2019
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The audible noise in a playback system coming from RF emissions transmitted by operating SSD's is a well known phenomena. Multi Level Cell are worse sounding than Single Level Cell.

I would be possible to measure the RF coming off Optane storage, and compare that to the RF emissions coming from MLC and SLC SSD's. It also explains why better shielded SATA cables result in better sounding systems. The emissions coming off a SSD are in the Gigahertz band and very difficult to attenuate effectively
But EXTREME use mlc Samsung ssd for Storage disk
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2015
367
192
73
Monaco
But EXTREME use mlc Samsung ssd for Storage disk
The key place to avoid using MLC SSD is for the OS and software drive which is unceasingly active

Music storage access is time limited and happens very quickly when it is PCIe connected and the noise signature is less than when connected over SATA.

It took a lot of testing and experimenting to get an onboard storage system to sound better than everything else
 

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