Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 86 67.7%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 22 17.3%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 13 10.2%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 12 9.4%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 3 2.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 6.3%

  • Total voters
    127

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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That sounds odd, can I take a look over teamviewer? I'd like to see that. The change of ip address is normal when you switch ethernet ports, with DHCP ip addresses are assigned to something called a MAC address, which is unique for every NIC. Changing the port will change your MAC address which changes your IP address.
 

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
358
591
435
That sounds odd, can I take a look over teamviewer? I'd like to see that. The change of ip address is normal when you switch ethernet ports, with DHCP ip addresses are assigned to something called a MAC address, which is unique for every NIC. Changing the port will change your MAC address which changes your IP address.
Please do, Emile. I will send you a code right now via e-mail.

Thank you.

Steve Z
 
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oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
358
591
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Please do, Emile. I will send you a code right now via e-mail.

Thank you.

Steve Z
More legendary customer support from Emile. Mystery resolved. Thank you!

Steve Z
 

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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Do I have it right that the current change in preference from Fiber to Copper is related somehow to the new USB card?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve

get rid of the fiber and go all copper. You’ll never regret it.
 
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oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
358
591
435
Steve

get rid of the fiber and go all copper. You’ll never regret it.

I think I just did, Steve. I'm definitely liking what I hear so far!

Steve Z
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,940
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The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Do I have it right that the current change in preference from Fiber to Copper is related somehow to the new USB card?

Not directly, and you may still prefer Fiber. What has changed is the discovery of the potential damaging effects of a cable shield connecting a switch to the server. This has been a plus for Fiber as that obviously lacks a cable shield connection. So if you compared Fiber to Copper in the past using a network cable with a connected shield and preferred Fiber, it may be worth it rerunning that comparison which can be done on the cheap by using a standard Cat5e cable.
 

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
358
591
435
Not directly, and you may still prefer Fiber. What has changed is the discovery of the potential damaging effects of a cable shield connecting a switch to the server. This has been a plus for Fiber as that obviously lacks a cable shield connection. So if you compared Fiber to Copper in the past using a network cable with a connected shield and preferred Fiber, it may be worth it rerunning that comparison which can be done on the cheap by using a standard Cat5e cable.

There must be more going on than just the elimination of the cable shield for wired ethernet, Emile. I say this because the cable I am using now is the same UTP cable I used briefly when I first got my Extreme. Then, I thought it somewhat fuzzy compared to the clarity of fiber.

Now, there have been a few changes to my LAN since that initial trial -- better LPS' for the cable/modem and the Sonore Optical Module I'm now using as an FMC for the fiber run directly from modem/router to Extreme, better sounding (to me) Finisar SFPs, better ethernet jumper connecting the Optical Module to the modem/router. But I would have thought most of those changes would favor fiber more than the original 20 meters of UTP copper, with the exception of the LPS for the modem/router (that would help everything).

Seriously interesting stuff, but even more importantly, serious great sounding.

Steve Z
 
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Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,940
3,244
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The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
There must be more going on than just the elimination of the cable shield for wired ethernet, Emile. I say this because the cable I am using now is the same UTP cable I used briefly when I first got my Extreme. Then, I thought it somewhat fuzzy compared to the clarity of fiber.

Yeah we've had 2 mayor general software updates, the USB driver, the USB card, TAS, so quite a few changes since then, all of which could impact your preference for copper or fiber.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve

i took Emile’s advice from the onset and have had zero desires to even try fiber. What I am hearing now plain and simple is the best digital I have ever heard on my system In fact today I promised myself that I am going to spend a few hours with vinyl. I just wait for any and all updates to TAS. I also want a “Keep It Simple Stupid “ network and I use no switches. If I were to venture in that direction it would only a switch designed by Emile as this preserves IMO the integrity of the TAS sound. I’m smitten
 

MadFloyd

Member Sponsor
May 31, 2010
2,827
414
580
Mass
Steve

i took Emile’s advice from the onset and have had zero desires to even try fiber. What I am hearing now plain and simple is the best digital I have ever heard on my system In fact today I promised myself that I am going to spend a few hours with vinyl. I just wait for any and all updates to TAS. I also want a “Keep It Simple Stupid “ network and I use no switches. If I were to venture in that direction it would only a switch designed by Emile as this preserves IMO the integrity of the TAS sound. I’m smitten
What was your previous digital setup, Steve?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
What was your previous digital setup, Steve?
Well first off I never streamed on a regular basis as I was listening to vinyl most of the time. When I did stream, the network I had then I still have now. So my digital was spinning discs with my Playback Designs MPS-5 and the Playback Designs USB X Box lll that allowed me to play up to DSD 256 It was half decent but dated as I was listening to mostly vinyl and it never rose to the surface for me. I rarely streamed as what I heard was easily bettered by same track on vinyl. But then as Emile brought TAS into the foray all bets were off as suddenly streaming was sounding damn good and getting better with every new iteration Emile brought out. After the Roon issue which prompted Emile to be in total control of the signal from the time it enters to the time it leaves the Extreme, made me a believer. I haven’t used Roon since TAS came out. Some say they won’t use TAS until it’s a finished product. I think they are losing out. The player and gapless have been big reasons people opt out but TAS is an open book and Emile is determined to bring we Extreme users the best sound and IMO he has been hitting walk off homers with everything he has done. The long silence tells me something great is in the works. Emile has also said he planned on having a TAS player. So the LMP is only temporary. Its shortcomings haven’t bothered me as they are mitigated by the sonic improvement from TAS. FWIW TAS also improves Roon so this pleases those who are waiting for a finished product.

what manufacturer do you know other than Taiko that has such dedication. What I see evolving is a well deserved successful business for Taiko and all of us here have all been beta users. So I say hold on and enjoy the ride. Streaming in TAS is darn close to the same digital files I have stored in my Library and that’s quite a feat. IMO
 

cat6man

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2013
344
198
385
west of NYC, east of SF
Yesterday was my wife's birthday but she let me, in her words, "play with the stereo" for an hour or so which was very nice of her. I did after all cook dinner and waited on her hand and foot all day!

Interesting experience switching back to copper ethernet after having listened to music for over a year via fiber. I need to listen more but so far I like what I heard last night. I was expecting something rather subtle but what I heard was quite easy to differentiate. I hear more body and weight and more 3-dimensionality with the copper connection. And with the body I think I also hear a bit more subtle detail and texture to instrumental sounds and voices. I haven't detected much if any loss of dynamics, leading edge or HF information relative to fiber.

Now, fiber didn't sound thin or lack weight before but it could sound a tad bit too energetic at times and less favored recorded material that have a tendency toward edginess with fiber sound more relaxed while not being slowed down or softened via copper ethernet.

These differences hold true whether listening to local content stored on the Extreme or streamed from Qobuz or Tidal, perhaps being a bit more pronounced when comparing streamed music.

I did run into one self-generated temporary frustration when doing the change to copper. It took me a few tries before realizing that I had to first click on the TAS player icon to discover all Extremes on my network after making the switch from fiber to copper ethernet. I thought I had reserved a static IP address for the Extreme in my modem/router but evidently I had not. So after the swap the address had changed and the TAS player needed to re-discover my Extreme before it would play.

I do note something interesting that I can't explain. I wrote in an earlier post that looking at ethernet settings in Windows with fiber connected, my three interfaces were:

"In this window on the right panel you will see a list of ethernet inputs. Mine are, from top to bottom -- Standard Ethernet (not connected), Tweaked Ethernet (not connected), and Network 3 (connected). Network 3 is my current fiber input to the Extreme. An SFP is active in the Extreme's SFP cage and my fiber goes directly to it."

Looking at ethernet settings now with a copper ethernet cable plugged into the port labeled "LAN 2" on the back of the Extreme, they show the same as before -- that is, Standard Ethernet and Tweaked Ethernet still show "not connected" and Network 3 continues to show "connected", but with the new IP address. I've restarted the Extreme since making the switch to copper ethernet, but Windows doesn't show anything other than my connection IP address changed.

Any ideas? Later today I'll pull the SFP and see if that makes a difference. I would like to verify that I actually have my copper cable plugged into the "Tweaked Ethernet" port, though it certainly sounds lovely at present.

I reserve the right to change my mind after more listening, but for now going back to copper ethernet is the favorite here at Rancho De Luxe.

Steve Z

The report that copper vs. fiber impacts the sound of locally stored music fascinates me, and I'll have to try it tomorrow.

[Start off topic digression]
I'm off to my first live concert (remember those?) in a year and a half! The fantastic guitarist/songwriter Richard Thompson is playing a free, outdoor, socially distanced concert in Woodbridge, NJ at 7:30 and I've got a prime piece of real estate by the sound board.
[End digression]
 

ctydwn

Active Member
Aug 23, 2019
70
167
38
Retest - Copper ethernet, USB card, TAS - with and without the M12 Gold switch
Just a quick share. It has been on my list to retest with and without the M12 Gold switch since the latest updates of TAS and USB card installation. I have always been running copper ethernet unshielded throughout.
(I use the Edgerouter plus the M12 Gold each plugged into their own LPS. Cable modem on its own LPS as well. When I first added these components, they had a major positive impact on the sound. For the comparison, I tried the 30-40 foot run of ethernet cat 6 cable, which is run in the wall, directly from the modem into the Extreme.)

The last time I tried this test in February the gap had considerably narrowed. I didn't think someone listening casually to my system for the first time would have necessarily noticed. I could have easily lived with the straight ethernet connection.

Conducting the test today, the gap is almost completely gone. I still prefer the sound ever so slightly with the networking components added in the chain. There is still a bit more added weight to the plucking of the guitar and suspension in the air. The rosin of the cello just sounds a touch more intoxicating with the switch. Just a tad less friction without. Talking like 0.5-1%. Potentially entering the realm of mental.

As Emile reported, the value proposition of the switch would be hard to justify today and imagine it just may be a matter of time to let it go where it could still do its magic in another system, as it previously had. I do also believe, a potential switch from Taiko would be my only future consideration.

The Taiko ecosystem gives such a sense of reassurance and calm for me to listen more and tweak less. Thank you to the team again.
 

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
557
343
273
Steve, have you tried Fiber?
Steve

get rid of the fiber and go all copper. You’ll never regret it.
There must be more going on than just the elimination of the cable shield for wired ethernet, Emile. I say this because the cable I am using now is the same UTP cable I used briefly when I first got my Extreme. Then, I thought it somewhat fuzzy compared to the clarity of fiber.

Now, there have been a few changes to my LAN since that initial trial -- better LPS' for the cable/modem and the Sonore Optical Module I'm now using as an FMC for the fiber run directly from modem/router to Extreme, better sounding (to me) Finisar SFPs, better ethernet jumper connecting the Optical Module to the modem/router. But I would have thought most of those changes would favor fiber more than the original 20 meters of UTP copper, with the exception of the LPS for the modem/router (that would help everything).

Seriously interesting stuff, but even more importantly, serious great sounding.

Steve Z
@oldmustang Steve, I'm not clear about your current configuration? Are you using Fiber from your Optical Module to a switch and then your Copper from switch to Extreme?

When I get a chance I'm going to compare my current setup of
OM>Fiber>Switch>Fiber>EXT to the following:

--a straight run of Cat 7 UTP copper to EXT. and...
--OM>Fiber>Switch>Cat 6 UTP copper to EXT
 

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
358
591
435
The report that copper vs. fiber impacts the sound of locally stored music fascinates me, and I'll have to try it tomorrow.

[Start off topic digression]
I'm off to my first live concert (remember those?) in a year and a half! The fantastic guitarist/songwriter Richard Thompson is playing a free, outdoor, socially distanced concert in Woodbridge, NJ at 7:30 and I've got a prime piece of real estate by the sound board.
[End digression]

Richard Thompson! Enjoy the concert — I don‘t know how you wouldn’t. He’s a great performer.

Steve Z
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

oldmustang

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
358
591
435
Steve, have you tried Fiber?


@oldmustang Steve, I'm not clear about your current configuration? Are you using Fiber from your Optical Module to a switch and then your Copper from switch to Extreme?

When I get a chance I'm going to compare my current setup of
OM>Fiber>Switch>Fiber>EXT to the following:

--a straight run of Cat 7 UTP copper to EXT. and...
--OM>Fiber>Switch>Cat 6 UTP copper to EXT

My current configuration, let’s call it copper, is:

CenturyLink (ISP) ActionTec 1900C DSL modem/router (powered by one rail of an Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS) > 20 meters UTP copper ethernet cable > Extreme LAN 1 (“Tweaked Ethernet”) input.

My previous configuration, I refer to as fiber, has been:

CenturyLink DSL modem/router (JS-2 LPS) > Sablon copper ethernet jumper > Sonore Optical Module (powered by a Sonore Signature LPS) with Finisar 1324 SFP > fiber optic cable > Finisar 1324 SFP in the Extreme SFP cage.

With either connection, the rest of my home LAN is electrically isolated as follows:

CenturyLink DSL modem > UTP copper ethernet jumper > StarTech FMC/Planet Tech SFP > fiber jumper > Planet Tech SFP/StarTech FMC > UTP copper jumper > Netgear GS105 switch (LPS) > the rest of my home computing and AV system loads via UTP copper ethernet or WiFi.

Hope this clarifies things.

Steve Z
 

heebrog

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2018
103
39
95
Perth, WA
More legendary customer support from Emile. Mystery resolved. Thank you!

Steve Z
What was the issue so if it happens we don't need to trouble Emile?
 

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