steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
The only scripts I know are those I write for my patients. All else is Greek to me
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
I am more scared about the manual work to move the Extreme out of the rack, and get my clumsy hands inside its gutsThe only scripts I know are those I write for my patients. All else is Greek to me
You'll be fine Simone, Taiko has a fine way of show/explaining. Also the WBF brethren will be very helpful....I am more scared about the manual work to move the Extreme out of the rack, and get my clumsy hands inside its guts
The only scripts I know are those I write for my patients. All else is Greek to me
We are both same industry then,
I was numer of times in your area ( mainly Lake Forest and Irvine ) visiting medical company I did the
clinical trials for.
Have close friend in Laguna Hills and in Newport.
Asked Chatgpt how to install..I am more scared about the manual work to move the Extreme out of the rack, and get my clumsy hands inside its guts
Not helpful..
Mn
Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
Here are some nice additional pictures of the Kroma/The Gryphon/MSB/Taiko Audio system at the “Ultimate Sessions Extreme” in Porto, organized last weekend by Ultimate Audio Elite Portugal.
The all-new Kroma Audio Mercedes loudspeakers were actually a world premiere at this show.
All equipment sits on Gryphon StandArt racks.
MSB Technology Europe Select Dac and Digital Director Reference.
Gryphon Commander preamp
MSB Digital Director Power Supply and Taiko Audio Extreme Music Server
Gryphon Audio Designs Apex Mono
The all-new Kroma Audio Mercedes loudspeakers were actually a world premiere at this show.
All equipment sits on Gryphon StandArt racks.
MSB Technology Europe Select Dac and Digital Director Reference.
Gryphon Commander preamp
MSB Digital Director Power Supply and Taiko Audio Extreme Music Server
Gryphon Audio Designs Apex Mono
Attachments
I keep toying with upgrading from Mephisto/Pandora to Apex/Commander. Impressive!!
Hello and good morning
I am not an Taiko Extreme user, not because I don’t think it’s a great product, but because I’m having a lot of fun tramping my own path to audio Nirvana, which involves a very different approach, so my reply is not biased by any pride of ownership or loyalty.
Thanks for your take on this, I really appreciate an answer like this. May I ask which different approach you are going for? You can message me privately if you don’t want to write it here.
But I do pay careful attention to developments at Taiko for the simple reason that there are very few companies doing true R&D into digital audio streaming. As a company Taiko has a fairly simple approach, which is to engineer the very best sound quality they can, without compromise. This involves identifying sonic shortcomings with the current state of the art, doing the research to discover the causes of those shortcomings, doing the development and experimentation to resolve those shortcomings then doing the engineering to build commercial solutions. When you look at a Taiko Extreme, what you see is a ‘fancy‘ computer.
So “engineer” meaning mix and try components back and forth etc.
Yeah, this I understand, but it´s the “best sound” in their ears so to speak, I´m guessing that they are measuring as well.
What you are actually looking at is an instrument designed from the ground up to produce the finest sonics possible within the realms of current technology. This search for perfection is what drives Taiko. Every component in an Extreme has been carefully evaluated against multiple alternatives in order to discover which produces the finest sonics.
“multiple alternatives”, that would be different configuration with computer parts and/or other streaming solutons/products that are on the market?
When you work at this level of perfection, the first thing you find is that everything truly does matter. Nothing in a Taiko Extreme is there because it reduces cost, is a standard engineering solution or because its cosmetically appealing. A decent engineer could probably reduce the build cost of a Taiko by 50%, likely more, but at the same time they’d also reduce the sound quality by a very significant degree. There are several current owners of Taiko Extremes who formerly belonged to the DIY ‘lunatic fringe’.
This is interesting, so hardcore fanatics that used to build their own systems are jumping on the Taikowagon? This is a good sign, I would love to talk 2-3people that chose Taiko instead of their own builds.
These are guys who have tremendous depth of knowledge in IT engineering AND hi-fi, who have access to pretty much every commercial product required to build a state of the art server and are far from ‘fund limited‘ but despite several heroic efforts, they all ended up buying an Extreme because they simply could not reproduce the same level of obsessive care, knowledge, dedication and engineering that goes into an Extreme.
So what‘s in an Extreme that’s so special? Well actually everything. And what does ‘special‘ mean….well if you listed the parts in an Extreme, the chances are you‘d be unable to obtain the vast majority, being either ’built in house’ or built by third party specialist suppliers. Obviously there are some ’standard’ components but then you are typically talking about the finest components from highly specialized manufacturers .
So this is what I wanted to know, so are you saying that the parts that is in the Taiko, is NOT standard RAM, CPU etc.? Are the modfied? What is actually standard and what is not? That is what I want to know. If all Is standard then I still say that it´s overpriced, but if mods are being done of parts are custombuilt, then it´s another thing. That would mean that I cant get the parts myself.
So in my opinion, compared to other highly respected hi-fi components, is the Taiko Extreme worth its asking price? My background is in science and high tech manufacturing and I would answer, without hesitation definitely. But there’s more. Since people bought their Extreme there have been a string of developments in both hardware and software domains that have continued to refine sound quality, some were free and some productised, so what Taiko customers are listening to today is quite superior to what they actually bought, so the value of their purchase in terms of its most important deliverable, sound quality, has actually Increased.
Finally, you listed a couple of references, Roon Labs and Audio Sciences Forums. I am not a Roon user because their goals (commercial success) and mine (best sound quality) are not congruent.
What is mine? I have no experience from Roon, but I know what it is. I know HQplayer is very popular with its different oversampling possibilities.
Audio Sciences positions itself as a more scientific, measurements based website. Unfortunately the science is in name alone and nothing I read would pass even rudimentary scrutiny by scientific journals. Of the 3 articles I read, all contained uncontrolled for confounding variables that better explained the conclusions presented. For example, measuring the noise output from a DAC in order to compare its output with and without a network switch. The noise remain unchanged leading them to conclude that the switch had no effect, without controlling to see if the unaltered noise was actually coming from the DAC.
Could Halo May Audio be a great match for Taiko?
I would conclude by saying that compared to an Extreme, there are several somewhat lower cost alternatives known to provide excellent sound quality and offering various engineering ways of ‘skinning the cat’, but I would judge all to represent similar value for money, relative to each other and to other hi-fi components
Thanks for all your feedback.
Another thing; regarding the disks SSD; how easy is it to change them yourself? This must be a possibility, otherwise it´s a dealbreaker.
I am not an Taiko Extreme user, not because I don’t think it’s a great product, but because I’m having a lot of fun tramping my own path to audio Nirvana, which involves a very different approach, so my reply is not biased by any pride of ownership or loyalty.
Thanks for your take on this, I really appreciate an answer like this. May I ask which different approach you are going for? You can message me privately if you don’t want to write it here.
But I do pay careful attention to developments at Taiko for the simple reason that there are very few companies doing true R&D into digital audio streaming. As a company Taiko has a fairly simple approach, which is to engineer the very best sound quality they can, without compromise. This involves identifying sonic shortcomings with the current state of the art, doing the research to discover the causes of those shortcomings, doing the development and experimentation to resolve those shortcomings then doing the engineering to build commercial solutions. When you look at a Taiko Extreme, what you see is a ‘fancy‘ computer.
So “engineer” meaning mix and try components back and forth etc.
Yeah, this I understand, but it´s the “best sound” in their ears so to speak, I´m guessing that they are measuring as well.
What you are actually looking at is an instrument designed from the ground up to produce the finest sonics possible within the realms of current technology. This search for perfection is what drives Taiko. Every component in an Extreme has been carefully evaluated against multiple alternatives in order to discover which produces the finest sonics.
“multiple alternatives”, that would be different configuration with computer parts and/or other streaming solutons/products that are on the market?
When you work at this level of perfection, the first thing you find is that everything truly does matter. Nothing in a Taiko Extreme is there because it reduces cost, is a standard engineering solution or because its cosmetically appealing. A decent engineer could probably reduce the build cost of a Taiko by 50%, likely more, but at the same time they’d also reduce the sound quality by a very significant degree. There are several current owners of Taiko Extremes who formerly belonged to the DIY ‘lunatic fringe’.
This is interesting, so hardcore fanatics that used to build their own systems are jumping on the Taikowagon? This is a good sign, I would love to talk 2-3people that chose Taiko instead of their own builds.
These are guys who have tremendous depth of knowledge in IT engineering AND hi-fi, who have access to pretty much every commercial product required to build a state of the art server and are far from ‘fund limited‘ but despite several heroic efforts, they all ended up buying an Extreme because they simply could not reproduce the same level of obsessive care, knowledge, dedication and engineering that goes into an Extreme.
So what‘s in an Extreme that’s so special? Well actually everything. And what does ‘special‘ mean….well if you listed the parts in an Extreme, the chances are you‘d be unable to obtain the vast majority, being either ’built in house’ or built by third party specialist suppliers. Obviously there are some ’standard’ components but then you are typically talking about the finest components from highly specialized manufacturers .
So this is what I wanted to know, so are you saying that the parts that is in the Taiko, is NOT standard RAM, CPU etc.? Are the modfied? What is actually standard and what is not? That is what I want to know. If all Is standard then I still say that it´s overpriced, but if mods are being done of parts are custombuilt, then it´s another thing. That would mean that I cant get the parts myself.
So in my opinion, compared to other highly respected hi-fi components, is the Taiko Extreme worth its asking price? My background is in science and high tech manufacturing and I would answer, without hesitation definitely. But there’s more. Since people bought their Extreme there have been a string of developments in both hardware and software domains that have continued to refine sound quality, some were free and some productised, so what Taiko customers are listening to today is quite superior to what they actually bought, so the value of their purchase in terms of its most important deliverable, sound quality, has actually Increased.
Finally, you listed a couple of references, Roon Labs and Audio Sciences Forums. I am not a Roon user because their goals (commercial success) and mine (best sound quality) are not congruent.
What is mine? I have no experience from Roon, but I know what it is. I know HQplayer is very popular with its different oversampling possibilities.
Audio Sciences positions itself as a more scientific, measurements based website. Unfortunately the science is in name alone and nothing I read would pass even rudimentary scrutiny by scientific journals. Of the 3 articles I read, all contained uncontrolled for confounding variables that better explained the conclusions presented. For example, measuring the noise output from a DAC in order to compare its output with and without a network switch. The noise remain unchanged leading them to conclude that the switch had no effect, without controlling to see if the unaltered noise was actually coming from the DAC.
Could Halo May Audio be a great match for Taiko?
I would conclude by saying that compared to an Extreme, there are several somewhat lower cost alternatives known to provide excellent sound quality and offering various engineering ways of ‘skinning the cat’, but I would judge all to represent similar value for money, relative to each other and to other hi-fi components
Thanks for all your feedback.
Another thing; regarding the disks SSD; how easy is it to change them yourself? This must be a possibility, otherwise it´s a dealbreaker.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
@grandsoir Have you even once listened rather than speculating which seems quite easy for you. Bottom line is "hearing is believing"
@grandsoir It seems you didn't read the first few pages of this very lengthy thread? There is quite a bit of information there that would fill in a lot of the blanks that you seem to enjoy speculating upon. It wasn't a good look on your part to jump on a thread and appear to demand that this group educate you and justify the Extreme's existence. I think it would go better if you spent time doing your homework first, and then ask questions seeking to learn.
I endorse this upgrade, John. Unfortunately, at this time I am unable to provide any monetary support
Since there is 753 pages of info; I can´t ask questions without reading all pages? Thats a bit of bully in a way. I´m reading as well, but come on with the sect-like crap! "jump on and demand"...I never demanded anything. I´m geniunly interested in Taiko, I would never asked otherwise so people do not need to easily offended...especially if you own the machine.
I am going to hear it as well. Asking questions from others and listening goes hand in hand.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
It's your apparent attitude and know it all comments the seem to stir the pot. Why don'y you arrange an audition and comment when you have some meaningful comments
Not even a few sheckles? Perhaps a Go Fund Me? LOL!! Been rolling it around for awhile now, lot easier rolling it around than pulling the string! My intention is to die poor, so I have certainly found the right enablers and the right passion!I endorse this upgrade, John. Unfortunately, at this time I am unable to provide any monetary support
I don't think @grandsoir asked inappropriate questions. I think it would be nice if we don't respond like they do on the Roon forum when someone dares to criticize the sound quality.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I have no problem with criticism but only when it is substantiated by an actual listening session. As I said speculation is cheap and easy to do. It allows readers to understand why the listener feels why he does.
But he has not dared to criticize sound quality. He hasn't heard it yet. And, OK, maybe it's just me. But re-read his first two posts and see if it doesn't sound like he thinks he's the little boy showing up to inform us all that the Emperor has no clothes, and asking us to explain why we think he does. I'm just pointing out that he could have done his own homework without too much effort before seemingly "calling BS" on this product (or any product).
The world of digital audio servers / streamers / is vast and rapidly evolving. Hopping into a thread and asking for a lot of info / answers is a bit lazy IMHO. There is a ton of info in this very long thread, some of which is irrelevant and would be nice for sure to skim over, but there are nuggets of valuable info here that can be learned taking the time to read, rather than ask others to regurgitate what has already been written. I was very reluctant to read it all before I invested in an Extreme, but having done so my decision was much easier I was confident in the approach of Team Taiko.
While it is a long thread, consider it a condensed read into leading edge R&D. Taiko exposes insider info most companies would never do.
While it is a long thread, consider it a condensed read into leading edge R&D. Taiko exposes insider info most companies would never do.
This is a topic that has been discussed at length several years ago, so there is a natural reluctance here to rehash old topics. Like it or not, you are treading ground that has already been covered, so it behooves you to catch up first. I do understand that finding things in a long thread can be a challenge — although you may find the search function above on the top right to be surprisingly helpful.
In the spirit of helpfulness, I am posting a couple of links to get you started in your research. Please use them in the spirit intended — as a shortcut to help you catch up. Most of the other questions you asked have also been covered extensively already, which some searching and reading will reveal.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...treme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-615725
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...-music-server/?do=findComment&comment=1200106
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