Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[MusicFellow]

As I’ve stated before, the “wall” with digital is on the recording side. Thanks to Taiko, the D to A side has largely been solved.

And is that limitation applying mostly to old (50-60s recordings) or are today‘s digital recordings as well permanently „handicapped“ by poor recording processes? Secondly, does that „poor recording“ wall not apply to analog because it is always analog and thus - although often old - never underwent this recording „castration“?

 

[Armsan]

Sorry, what is a “Taiko D700 DAC”?!

TAD D700 DAC

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Christiaan Punter is maintaining a collection of information on our website in the downloads section.

Here’s a direct link for information concerning the DC distributor:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Extreme-DC-Power-Distributor_v002.pdf

And here for the router:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Taiko-Audio-Router-guide-V06.pdf

 

[Taiko Audio]

Up to now I have the firm believe that a decent lps for the router does help.
Will a second (clean Taiko) router obviate this need?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[Kris]

To put a high end switch like telegärtner m12 between (dirty) router and wifi access point seems a bit …. advanced?
This switch would only deal things wifi - so a less advanced switch might do?
Of course it should not introduce dirt by itself.
Would a passive device like Delock or Emosafe galvanic isolators in this place be of any help to fight wifi access point gremlins?

It should , but as far as I am aware m12 will be so much better
as the isolation transformers used there and a clock used there is on a totally different level.
you have it so just try it.

 

[Kris]

i have to respectfully disagree. i only play local WAV files and the switch made a HUGE difference here. overkill? not here, it is a necessity.

as for your first point, of course the RF signal from a wifi router can add noise to a system, i'm just suggesting that the ingress is likely not coming from the extreme but from some other part of your system.
and of course, YMMV

I have same observations . The bigest differences were always dreaming in network .
It works fantastic for both streaming and local files.

 

[Armsan]

Don’t think so.

My point is that a Wifi router in the room adds noise through the wireless sound waves, not only through the AC lines. For the best sound quality, we really should have no wifi in the room, period.
It would be great, for those of us who never stream, to have a solution that is hard-wired to the Extreme. The Switch/Router/DC Distribution is kind of overkill If the only reason you need a network is to control playback!

Among the DIY music server community, non streamers, that approach is used. A DHCP server software is installed, which provides an IP address to LAN ports where the control device is wired connected.

 

[nenon]

My point is that a Wifi router in the room adds noise through the wireless sound waves, not only through the AC lines. For the best sound quality, we really should have no wifi in the room, period.

What makes you think so? Have you experimented with a dedicated Wifi access point in the music room and outside the music room with everything else being equal (connected the exact same way, to the same router/port, powered by exact same way, to the same power outlet, etc.)?

 

[pleroma]

Yes! Definitely. Huge improvement!

Thank you all for confirming this. I probably should've added "... with a USB-connected DAC" but I'll assume this was the case for most.

The NIC and switch are on my list.

 

[tpsully99]

Based on my past 5 year history of experimenting with and optimising my network I believe there are 3 elements to optimising sound quality in music streaming.

The better the quality of your audio network’s Physical Layer, the better the sound‘s ‘presentation’ ie. Your brain can construct a more realistic, live sounding soundscape of musicians spontaneously making music in a venue, recorded or engineered

For ALL network components, Better in = Better out. The better the stream quality going into a component, the better its output. Better = less noise, less jitter, less vibration, less cable loss, better power supplies, lower traffic, etc.

The less traffic on the ENTIRE audio network, the better the sound quality. The SOONER you can separate the audio related stream from the rest of the household demand, the better.

If you do the separation WITH the Taiko router, it will not sound as good as doing it before the router, simply on a better in = better out basis. In 5 years of experimenting and reading others’ experiences, I have never seen this Axiom disproven. Improve the input measurably and the output will improve.

So what that tells me is:

Ideally, your Taiko router and switch should be vibration isolated, have the finest power supplies and DC cables attached and have all non-audio related traffic separated off before either device.

In the end, the biggest influence on what you hear will be the power supplies employed, because they generate the bit stream and its the bit stream‘s physical quality that has the most impact on the output of your DAC. Assuming a bit-perfect stream of bits, its how the bits are structured and how much ’extraneous’ voltage and timing deviations are built-in to their structure that matters most.

In my network I had 6 streams of Sean Jacob’s ARC6DC4 power and extensive anti-vibration measures and the resulting sound was utterly gorgeous. That stream was upgraded from DC3 to DC4 to ARC6 and each upgrade brought huge improvements. Upgrading DC cables from really good Neotech to Mundorf silver/gold also brought jaw-dropping changes, mainly to purity, holographic imaging and a sense of reality and being present in the actual venue as the music was being created. Throughout those upgrades my perception gradually changed from listening to really good quality recorded music, to being at a live performance of the music. All the increased information I heard was the result of my brain being able to clearly resolve more information from the resulting soundwaves. The information was already there, but the accompanying ‘noise’ of varying sorts meant that my brain couldn’t resolve it from other parts of the music. Drop the noise and that impacts the brain’s ability to resolve more.

The BIG deal architecturally for a network built for sound quality is that as the stream progresses from incoming wall to final client, it should encounter constantly improving physical layer specs. For example, there no point having a low noise stage, low vibration stage or low jitter stage if the next stage or any downstream stages are worse. In audio, the network is a Stream Conditioning process, which should constantly improve the physical layer until what reaches your DAC or Server is as close to perfect as it can be.

Unfortunately I can no longer hear any of this due to complete hearing loss in one ear 6 weeks ago. I just wanted to pass on some of what I’d learned. And yes, my entire system is now for sale as I need to morph it into something more suitable and fun for a person with single sided deafness.

I'm so sorry to hear about your hearing issue! This is one of my nightmares. Good luck.
Tom

 

[John T]

I wish we could all magically listen to each others systems. Beam me up Scotty! A Ken Kesey audio road trip. "are you on the bus or off the bus" So much sonic interpretation is shared. Bottom line, that's all it is, individual interpretation. We all have good systems, just attempting to pull as much out as possible...

 

[Zeotrope]

And is that limitation applying mostly to old (50-60s recordings) or are today‘s digital recordings as well permanently „handicapped“ by poor recording processes? Secondly, does that „poor recording“ wall not apply to analog because it is always analog and thus - although often old - never underwent this recording „castration“?

Exactly right! I had this discussion with a well regarded recording engineer and “hi-end” component manufacturer and that was the consensus.

 

[dminches]

To me, the wall is on the mastering side. There is nothing wrong with 50s-60s recordings. I have hundreds of recordings from that era on LP and reel. Many sound amazing. The issue is with the process of converting those analog recordings into a digital format. Often it is done without the same attention to detail as is applied to analog media.

 

[Zeotrope]

To me, the wall is on the mastering side. There is nothing wrong with 50s-60s recordings. I have hundreds of recordings from that era on LP and reel. Many sound amazing. The issue is with the process of converting those analog recordings into a digital format. Often it is done without the same attention to detail as is applied to analog media.

Exactly.

 

[dminches]

Exactly.

I was confused by the use of the term “recording” since it should be “mastering” given that there is already a recording.

 

[Zeotrope]

Thank you all for confirming this. I probably should've added "... with a USB-connected DAC" but I'll assume this was the case for most.

The NIC and switch are on my list.

Yes, I use a USB connection to the DAC.

 

[Zeotrope]

What makes you think so? Have you experimented with a dedicated Wifi access point in the music room and outside the music room with everything else being equal (connected the exact same way, to the same router/port, powered by exact same way, to the same power outlet, etc.)?

What makes me think so is easy: putting the Wifi access point in a wood enclosure reduces the background noise floor. Taking it out increases it.
Now, I have high-efficiency horns, so they are very revealing. But there’s No doubt that the Wifi access point is adding noise, and it’s not through the AC line. Once I enclose the AP the noise floor does not change whether the AP is plugged in or not.

 

[oldmustang]

What makes me think so is easy: putting the Wifi access point in a wood enclosure reduces the background noise floor. Taking it out increases it.
Now, I have high-efficiency horns, so they are very revealing. But there’s No doubt that the Wifi access point is adding noise, and it’s not through the AC line. Once I enclose the AP the noise floor does not change whether the AP is plugged in or not.

You are not shielding the access point by putting it in a wooden box, you are attenuating the signal strength of the RF transmission from the access point. If doing so lowers the noise you hear through your horns then perhaps you would be interested in trying an access point that allows you to control your wifi transmission strength. Or, since this is a concern for you, comparing wifi to wired connection for your control device.

Steve Z

 

[Zeotrope]

You are not shielding the access point by putting it in a wooden box, you are attenuating the signal strength of the RF transmission from the access point. If doing so lowers the noise you hear through your horns then perhaps you would be interested in trying an access point that allows you to control your wifi transmission strength. Or, since this is a concern for you, comparing wifi to wired connection for your control device.

Steve Z

The point remains the same: wifi adds noise, and not just through AC, but through the RF transmission.
if you don’t stream, all this stuff (Wifi AP/DC Dist./Router/Switch/Network Card) is a waste, really, as it all adds noise.

 

[Taiko Audio]

What makes me think so is easy: putting the Wifi access point in a wood enclosure reduces the background noise floor. Taking it out increases it.
Now, I have high-efficiency horns, so they are very revealing. But there’s No doubt that the Wifi access point is adding noise, and it’s not through the AC line. Once I enclose the AP the noise floor does not change whether the AP is plugged in or not.

That could indeed attenuate transmission strength by 2-3dB, so similar to a single glass window, for reference a brick or concrete wall typically attenuates 20-25dB, which will still work fine, perhaps interesting to build a concrete / brick box? I cannot hear any difference here btw.