Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[MarcelNL]

Better Access Points attenuate WIFI strength based on need (tri-band AP such as the Fritz box 6000) , I doubt that attenuating the signal by 2-3 dB does a lot for sound quality....the ultimate test is switching the thing off in the middle of a track or wrapping it in shielding material.
(not saying the effect of a wooden enclosure is not real, planning to build one)

 

[Zeotrope]

That could indeed attenuate transmission strength by 2-3dB, so similar to a single glass window, for reference a brick or concrete wall typically attenuates 20-25dB, which will still work fine, perhaps interesting to build a concrete / brick box? I cannot hear any difference here btw.

That is interesting. I’m not sure why there’s an audible difference here; perhaps because they are >105dB efficient horns coupled with a strong signal in a small (~130sq.ft.) room. I don’t think the Eero’s signal strength can be reduced, so an enclosure may be the only option… although unplugging the Eero doesn’t perceptibly reduce background noise, so the wood box must be sufficient.
I definitely don’t want to add another Wifi AP in the same room though.

 

[MarcelNL]

That in interesting. I’m not sure why there’s an audible difference here; perhaps because they are >105dB efficient horns coupled with a strong signal in a small (~130sq.ft.) room. I don’t think the Eero’s signal strength can be reduced, so an enclosure may be the only option… although unplugging the Eero doesn’t perceptibly reduce background noise, so the wood box must be sufficient.
I definitely don’t want to add another Wifi AP in the same room though.

it would surprise me if Eero does not scale transmission power based on the needs driven by the connected device and its location relative to the AP.

 

[John T]

So please help the simple minded here. Access point strength in a basic network: Are we suggesting higher access strength emits more noise/pollution????

 

[oldmustang]

… although unplugging the Eero doesn’t perceptibly reduce background noise, so the wood box must be sufficient.

Wait -- putting the access point in a box lowers your perceived background noise, but unplugging it (which would take signal strength to zero) doesn't. Something isn't adding up.

Steve Z

 

[oldmustang]

So please help the simple minded here. Access point strength in a basic network: Are we suggesting higher access strength emits more noise/pollution????

It's very possible that putting the AP in a wooden box causes the power to the wifi transmitter to go up to compensate for loss of signal strength. Most wifi devices, even cheap ones, are capable of this.

Steve Z

 

[Taiko Audio]

It's very possible that putting the AP in a wooden box causes the power to the wifi transmitter to go up to compensate for loss of signal strength. Most wifi devices, even cheap ones, are capable of this.

Steve Z

There’s most likely something else going on, is the powersupply located in the same wooden box? I can definitely hear any change made to the powersupply feeding the access point.

 

[MarcelNL]

There’s most likely something else going on, is the powersupply located in the same wooden box? I can definitely hear any change made to the powersupply feeding the access point.

power supplies definitely need shielding

 

[pleroma]

It would be great, for those of us who never stream, to have a solution that is hard-wired to the Extreme. The Switch/Router/DC Distribution is kind of overkill If the only reason you need a network is to control playback!

I had similar thoughts a few years ago, thinking then that the early fiber NIC in the Extreme mitigated the noise. The only other thing I could think of was having the control UI on the server too, but then we're back to needing peripherals in the listening room (a setup I had years ago with a very long HDMI cable), with likely noise issues there.

So I assume, in the absence of at least a switch, the NIC on the Extreme is interrogating all the TCP/IP packets on the LAN, and hence the noise?

 

[kennyb123]

The point remains the same: wifi adds noise, and not just through AC, but through the RF transmission.
if you don’t stream, all this stuff (Wifi AP/DC Dist./Router/Switch/Network Card) is a waste, really, as it all adds noise.

I don’t know how close your home is to the homes of your neighbors, but a scan reveals that a number of the wifi from a number of homes around mine are broadcasting with enough juice to be detectable in ever room in my house. Unless one lives out in the sticks, their listening room is getting bathed in all kinds of RF. As such, there may be little to gain from eliminating a wifi router from one’s listening room.

 

[MarcelNL]

RF radiation decreases by a fourfold of double the distance, it's possible that decreasing nearby RF has more impact than using tin foil as wall paper (which in fact works to keep your neighbours RF out).

 

[Di-fi]

That in interesting. I’m not sure why there’s an audible difference here; perhaps because they are >105dB efficient horns coupled with a strong signal in a small (~130sq.ft.) room. I don’t think the Eero’s signal strength can be reduced, so an enclosure may be the only option… although unplugging the Eero doesn’t perceptibly reduce background noise, so the wood box must be sufficient.
I definitely don’t want to add another Wifi AP in the same room though.e

I am not sure this has been mentioned before, this thread is too massive. But if you are using an iPad why not hardwire it and get rid of all WiFi in your audio room? I suppose controlling playing music is the only reason to have WiFi in your room?



If you have a small audio room it's unlikely you will trip over the cable? I have to admit for 2023 execution is a little prehistoric, but it could solve the WiFi interference problems as discussed here?

www.amazon.com/s?k=RJ45+Ethernet+LAN+Network+Adapter&crid=2MVGH9IQXDQLX&sprefix=rj45+ethernet+lan+network+adapter%2Caps%2C219&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

 

[MusicFellow]

To me, the wall is on the mastering side. There is nothing wrong with 50s-60s recordings. I have hundreds of recordings from that era on LP and reel. Many sound amazing. The issue is with the process of converting those analog recordings into a digital format. Often it is done without the same attention to detail as is applied to analog media.

Alright, that makes total sense to me. …and yes, what I meant now that you’ve pointed it out was the mastering part.
My conclusion (and looking for the positive twist in this): The recordings themselves - if done properly - even in the 50s/60s are NOT the bottleneck AND that is true for digital as well BUT here the mastering needs to be on a high level as to not lose a crucial part of sound quality (compared to analog which doesn’t need this extra conversion step) that can‘t be regained on the playback side.
Soooo, if great mastering engineers remaster these gems with modern „Extreme-like“ analog to digital conversion processes this bottleneck would be resolved and we would be able to experience the full benefit of a digital playback chain.

 

[Zeotrope]

Wait -- putting the access point in a box lowers your perceived background noise, but unplugging it (which would take signal strength to zero) doesn't. Something isn't adding up.

Steve Z

It does add up: when the strength of the RF signal is low enough, there is no (perceptible) noise from the RF signal.

 

[Zeotrope]

Soooo, if great mastering engineers remaster these gems with modern „Extreme-like“ analog to digital conversion processes this bottleneck would be resolved and we would be able to experience the full benefit of a digital playback chain.

Exactly. The problem is that these devices no not exist.

 

[Zeotrope]

I don’t know how close your home is to the homes of your neighbors, but a scan reveals that a number of the wifi from a number of homes around mine are broadcasting with enough juice to be detectable in ever room in my house. Unless one lives out in the sticks, their listening room is getting bathed in all kinds of RF. As such, there may be little to gain from eliminating a wifi router from one’s listening room.

Yes, but the signal strength is a lot weaker from nearby homes. If the signal strength is low enough, the impact on noise is not perceptible.. and/or it’s not audible through your system regardless.

 

[Zeotrope]

There’s most likely something else going on, is the powersupply located in the same wooden box? I can definitely hear any change made to the powersupply feeding the access point.

No, the power supply is not in the wooden box. The power supply is connected to a Shunyata Denali.

 

[Kris]

I am not sure this has been mentioned before, this thread is too massive. But if you are using an iPad why not hardwire it and get rid of all WiFi in your audio room? I suppose controlling playing music is the only reason to have WiFi in your room?

View attachment 109056

If you have a small audio room it's unlikely you will trip over the cable? I have to admit for 2023 execution is a little prehistoric, but it could solve the WiFi interference problems as discussed here?

www.amazon.com/s?k=RJ45+Ethernet+LAN+Network+Adapter&crid=2MVGH9IQXDQLX&sprefix=rj45+ethernet+lan+network+adapter%2Caps%2C219&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

I did that for last 2 years as I could not listen with wifi access point in any place in my system.
This works excellent.
but
I was able to bring down the noise to the hardwire connection level with use of 2 and recently 3 isolating switches And powering the AP with a battery.

 

[Kris]

I did that for last 2 years as I could not listen with wifi access point in any place in my system.
This works excellent.
but
I was able to bring down the noise to the hardwire connection level with use of 2 and recently 3 isolating switches And powering the AP with a battery.

But I still hope for Taiko Access Point.
Not sure why Emile is not experiencing that „ wifi polution” effect but my gues is that he has a busy network And than it dosnt mater anymore.
also longer cable runs do attenuate this noise, so that might be part of the not existing effect.

 

[Kris]

Yes, but the signal strength is a lot weaker from nearby homes. If the signal strength is low enough, the impact on noise is not perceptible.. and/or it’s not audible through your system regardless.

Could you try to connect 20 m long ethernet cable to your wifi ?
you should have much better effect than a wooden box.
report if you see a difference.
Additionally you can add 1 or 2 switches powered by Lps to isolate it.
Let us know if that works in your place