Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[joet]

Hi @joet ,

Very interesting, thank you for reporting this.

Indeed sibilance and "leanness", especially relative to SotM switches, 40K USD clock or not, is opposite to what you should get. With almost 200 switches shipped it's also the first report which makes it all the more interesting to spend some effort on investigating.

First of all do I assume correctly you are using a Merging DAC and hence stream over Ethernet?

How is this connected? Are both the Merging DAC and Extreme Server connected to the Sotm stack and do you insert the Extreme Switch between Sotm stack and Extreme Server? Or do you connect the Merging DAC to a secondary network port of the Extreme Server?

Did you try a different power supply? Even if just the supplied wall-wart SMPS? Obviously the wall-wart should be inferior but not in the areas of sibilance, more in the area of flatter imaging and a "greyer" more smeared midrange. The reason I'm asking is that the power supply "noise" will dominate the total noise spectrum of the switch. I have no experience with the Mojo and it looks very good on paper, but these: "High-frequency MLCC bypass capacitors to filter beyond 3GHz" tend to be piezoelectric which means they can generate noise when for example vibration is applied, so it might be worthwhile to investigate damping the power supply chassis, for example place it on rubber footers, weight load the top etc. It's not a knock as MLCC capacitors are the most efficient capacitors for high frequency filtering and you'll find them in just about any modern electronic device, but something worthy of investigating nonetheless.

Lastly I see you have Daizas, did you place your Extreme Switch on one? If so please try reverting as as strange as it may sound they don't combine well.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and being so concerned about helping me with my system. This is part of why I love Taiko. To answer your questions:
Yes, I am using a Merging stack, connecting to the Extreme via Ethernet. I go from the Eeros node to the Taiko switch, DAC cable to the Extreme, Ethernet cable from the Extreme to the NADAC. Taiko switch is powered by a Mojo Illuminati. I removed the SOtM from the chain. Switching cables, I use the same configuration for the sotm switches, except I connect to the Extreme via copper Ethernet. I did also test using the Taiko and the SOtM serially. In that configuration, it took on the sonic character of both switches, however, at first impression I found the music somewhat "fuzzier". Although i didn't listen long.
I have not played with different PSUs and will do so. I will also try different platforms for the switch. Currently, it's sitting on a Butcher Block Acoustics Maple platform using 4 Gaia I feet. All in all, I will continue to listen and report back. So far, the sibilence issue has reduced for some reason, but the Taiko still sounds a bit leaner and edgier.

I'm a bit under the weather with a nasty cold that has knocked me out and clogged my ears a little. So i.might not be up to a lot of configuration changes or critical listening But will report back what I find when I can.

Finally, thank you for all of your help. I love the products and the company.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and being so concerned about helping me with my system. This is part of why I love Taiko. To answer your questions:
Yes, I am using a Merging stack, connecting to the Extreme via Ethernet. I go from the Eeros node to the Taiko switch, DAC cable to the Extreme, Ethernet cable from the Extreme to the NADAC. Taiko switch is powered by a Mojo Illuminati. I removed the SOtM from the chain. Switching cables, I use the same configuration for the sotm switches, except I connect to the Extreme via copper Ethernet. I did also test using the Taiko and the SOtM serially. In that configuration, it took on the sonic character of both switches, however, at first impression I found the music somewhat "fuzzier". Although i didn't listen long.
I have not played with different PSUs and will do so. I will also try different platforms for the switch. Currently, it's sitting on a Butcher Block Acoustics Maple platform using 4 Gaia I feet. All in all, I will continue to listen and report back. So far, the sibilence issue has reduced for some reason, but the Taiko still sounds a bit leaner and edgier.

I'm a bit under the weather with a nasty cold that has knocked me out and clogged my ears a little. So i.might not be up to a lot of configuration changes or critical listening But will report back what I find when I can.

Finally, thank you for all of your help. I love the products and the company.

It could also be helpful to connect your Merging directly to the Sotm switches as an additional datapoint.

I wish you a speedy recovery!

 

[Armsan]

General update on stocks / Router:

As of today all chrome finish switches from the first 2 batches are sold out, with the exception of 10 black finish switches. Most of these have shipped, we had a dozen or so with imperfect surface finishes which have been refinished and are now on their way back to us, we can ship those next week.

The next batch of switches are estimated to start shipping from the 3rd of July.

There are still 30 Routers / DC distributors left in the first batch.

We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance, and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier then the switch/networkcard bundle.

The downside is the increased BOM (Bill Of Materials), and we already forgot to include a few items in that, meaning we will have to increase the Router price, likely to at least EURO 6600 and possibly a bit more, but of course we will honour the EURO 6000 presale price and those who placed presale orders will get the wi-fi update for free.

Emile,
The wi-fi feature in the future router can be disabled, right? Completely turned off, I mean.
Thanks.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile,
The wi-fi feature in the future router can be disabled, right? Completely turned off, I mean.
Thanks.

It can be removed entirely.

 

[joet]

It could also be helpful to connect your Merging directly to the Sotm switches as an additional datapoint.

I wish you a speedy recovery!

Thank you. To help clarify, are you suggesting rather than go directly from the Extreme to the Merging, connect the Merging to the network? If so, with the Taiko in the chain or when I test the sotm switches alone?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you. To help clarify, are you suggesting rather than go directly from the Extreme to the Merging, connect the Merging to the network? If so, with the Taiko in the chain or when I test the sotm switches alone?

Would it be possible to connect it this way?
1) Router to Extreme Switch to Extreme Server
2) Router to Sotm stack to Merging

And subsequently:
1) Router to Sotm stack
2) Sotm stack to Merging
3) Sotm stack to Extreme switch to Extreme Server

And compare?

 

[joet]

Would it be possible to connect it this way?
1) Router to Extreme Switch to Extreme Server
2) Router to Sotm stack to Merging

And subsequently:
1) Router to Sotm stack
2) Sotm stack to Merging
3) Sotm stack to Extreme switch to Extreme Server

And compare?

Yes. Happy to do so. Might be a short while before I can, however. Thank you again.

 

[jelt2359]

General update on stocks / Router:

As of today all chrome finish switches from the first 2 batches are sold out, with the exception of 10 black finish switches. Most of these have shipped, we had a dozen or so with imperfect surface finishes which have been refinished and are now on their way back to us, we can ship those next week.

The next batch of switches are estimated to start shipping from the 3rd of July.

There are still 30 Routers / DC distributors left in the first batch.

We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance, and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier then the switch/networkcard bundle.

The downside is the increased BOM (Bill Of Materials), and we already forgot to include a few items in that, meaning we will have to increase the Router price, likely to at least EURO 6600 and possibly a bit more, but of course we will honour the EURO 6000 presale price and those who placed presale orders will get the wi-fi update for free.

Thanks for the update! Does this separate wifi network sound better than if I used port forwarding and stayed connected to my main network?

And any update on the ship date of the routers? I assumed it’s delayed due to the changes..

 

[Steve williams]

We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance, and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier then the switch/networkcard bundle.

It's been a while as Emile has been at Munich but it is refreshing to once again see his "pearl of the day". Also refreshing to read about the negative effect on SQ of the Panzerholz footers and how quickly they were excluded.

Sure am looking forward to getting my router and DCD

 

[oldmustang]

General update on stocks / Router:

As of today all chrome finish switches from the first 2 batches are sold out, with the exception of 10 black finish switches. Most of these have shipped, we had a dozen or so with imperfect surface finishes which have been refinished and are now on their way back to us, we can ship those next week.

The next batch of switches are estimated to start shipping from the 3rd of July.

There are still 30 Routers / DC distributors left in the first batch.

We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance, and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier then the switch/networkcard bundle.

The downside is the increased BOM (Bill Of Materials), and we already forgot to include a few items in that, meaning we will have to increase the Router price, likely to at least EURO 6600 and possibly a bit more, but of course we will honour the EURO 6000 presale price and those who placed presale orders will get the wi-fi update for free.

I'm more than happy to wait for the integrated solution. Very commendable to honor the original pre-sale pricing!

Steve Z

 

[wil]

We originally planned on using panzerholz footers and machined a bunch:

View attachment 110667

But they turned out to have a negative effect.

It’s not entirely surprising as over the years we figured out the Daizas / Panzerholz is an excellent cure for addressing Aluminum resonance, we developed them specifically for the Extreme, they’re virtually always positive for anything made out of Aluminum, but a less good fit for other materials, like the solid copper switch chassis where the pairing creates an unfavourable thin / harsh spectrum.

Has anyone used Revopods between the extreme and Daiza?

 

[SwissTom]

We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance, and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier then the switch/networkcard bundle.

The downside is the increased BOM (Bill Of Materials), and we already forgot to include a few items in that, meaning we will have to increase the Router price, likely to at least EURO 6600 and possibly a bit more, but of course we will honour the EURO 6000 presale price and those who placed presale orders will get the wi-fi update for free.

Hoi Emile!

We're going from one pleasant surprise to another!

It's a nice gesture to honour orders despite the extra cost associated with adding the AP.

It only adds to Taiko Audio's already solid reputation!

Ik hoop dat je veel Router verkoopt!!

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[nonesup]

Has anyone used Revopods between the extreme and Daiza?

Not under Extreme (I didn't have it then) but under my Kassandra. I sold them after two months, although it seems that Wadax's customers at Audio Exotics Hong Kong are very successful.
What I currently have between Extreme and Daiza is CenterStage2 and I'm happy.

 

[MarcelNL]

I initially read; we marinated a bunch....and I was thinking 'what did you use to marinate panzerholz'

with copper you need something more pliable IME

 

[Steve williams]

Not under Extreme (I didn't have it then) but under my Kassandra. I sold them after two months, although it seems that Wadax's customers at Audio Exotics Hong Kong are very successful.
What I currently have between Extreme and Daiza is CenterStage2 and I'm happy.

you don't need both...have you tried only the footers. I now use only the new Center Stage Ultra TT under all my electronics

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks for the update! Does this separate wifi network sound better than if I used port forwarding and stayed connected to my main network?

And any update on the ship date of the routers? I assumed it’s delayed due to the changes..

Yes it does.

No update on that, new PCBs would take around 4 weeks, It’s probably more up to when the Router cases surface finishing is applied.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I'm more than happy to wait for the integrated solution. Very commendable to honor the original pre-sale pricing!

Steve Z

The pre-sale pricing stays the same for the whole batch of 100 pcs of which now around 20 are left.

 

[RUIN*ish]

The pre-sale pricing stays the same for the whole batch of 100 pcs of which now around 20 are left.

Emile
What's the time-line for a black router?
Will the switch and router sit side by side on a 17.5 inch by 13.5 inch shelf?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile
What's the time-line for a black router?

Black takes longer then Chrome, but the process is under control now, I’d say those will ship around 2 weeks later then Chrome. BTW black is not very popular with only 15 switches ordered in black so far (still 10 left).

 

[RUIN*ish]

Black takes longer then Chrome, but the process is under control now, I’d say those will ship around 2 weeks later then Chrome. BTW black is not very popular with only 15 switches ordered in black so far (still 10 left).

Can black router ship last week of June?
Will both switch and router fit side by side on a 17.5 by 13.5 inch shelf?