Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[cat6man]

Cassettes, reel-reel, Usenet mp3s, liberated boots, near professional audience tapes and now matrix mixes (soundboards and audience tapes mixed to enhance the you are there feel).

One personal note: about 40 years ago this memorial day weekend (in the u.s.), WHRB-FM in Cambridge, Massachusetts broadcast a 72 hour marathon of dead shows.
After putting an antenna in my attic, hooking up my magnum elite fm tuner to my teac 4010sl reel-reel deck and collecting enough Scotch and BASF tapes, I was left with a dilemma. SQ (7 1/2) or sleep (3 3/4). Since the 3 3/4 recording speed sucked compared to 7 1/2, I got about 7 hours of sleep that 3 day weekend.

 

[joet]

So I received my switch on Monday. What an incredibly beautiful component. And the flight case is over the top. I've really come to respect and admire what Emile and the company are doing from both a sonic and service perspective and look forward to the router, distributor, and beyond.

Up until now, I've been using a pair of SOtM switches, powered by a Mojo Illuminati 3 (with distinct rails) and a $40K Merging Clock -U. At first listen of the Taiko switch (powered by the Illuminati 3) the sound was certainly different, a little leaner perhaps, and in many ways better; better imaging, for sure. However, most notably, I hear sibilance and an edge to the vocals that weren't there previously. Any thoughts? Is there a break-in period? Also, I'm using a 2.1 -> 2.5 female-to-male adapter for the DC cable until I purchase a cable with a 5.5/2.5 connector.

 

[Kingsrule]

I have no sibilance at all with the switch and network card. No discernible break-in except possibly the switch and LPS coming up to temp (a day or two) Mine is powered by a KECES LPS @ 12v....

 

[jbrrp1]

I'm really surprised by the report of sibilance, too. Not experiencing that at all with the Switch + Card + DAC cable.

 

[simorag]

Same here. The switch / NIC combo has actually improved vocal purity and organic-ness since day zero.

No sibilance issues, unless of course the recording is inherently hot.

 

[joet]

Im using the switch, card, DAC cable, RJ45, and ran the installation script.

 

[nonesup]

There are SOtMs between the Router and the Taiko Switch or you have removed them

 

[joet]

There are SOtMs between the Router and the Taiko Switch or you have removed them

I completely took the SOtMs out of the chain. When I tested them in-between the router and the Taiko switch the sibilance improves, although I haven’t done extended listening regardimg overall SQ.

 

[oldmustang]

Im using the switch, card, DAC cable, RJ45, and ran the installation script.

Interesting. I'm another who has not heard any increase in sibilance after adding the same equipment.

Looking at the equipment in your signature don't see anything that would sound that way, although I've read that complaint about the SoTM equipment if equipped with the silver wiring option.

Have you tried removing the SoTM switches, just to hear if this improves the sound for you?

Edit: I should have read farther down the thread. Please disregard.

Steve Z

 

[joet]

Interesting. I'm another who has not heard any increase in sibilance after adding the same equipment.

Looking at the equipment in your signature don't see anything that would sound that way, although I've read that complaint about the SoTM equipment if equipped with the silver wiring option.

Have you tried removing the SoTM switches, just to hear if this improves the sound for you?

Steve Z

Thanks. The sibilance occurs when I take the SOtMs out of the chain and replace them with the Taiko. When I put them between the Taiko and the router, the sibilance improved. I didn’t have this issue when just using the SOtMs, they sounded quite good. The Merging clock made a big difference.

 

[Di-fi]

So I received my switch on Monday. What an incredibly beautiful component. And the flight case is over the top. I've really come to respect and admire what Emile and the company are doing from both a sonic and service perspective and look forward to the router, distributor, and beyond.

Up until now, I've been using a pair of SOtM switches, powered by a Mojo Illuminati 3 (with distinct rails) and a $40K Merging Clock -U. At first listen of the Taiko switch (powered by the Illuminati 3) the sound was certainly different, a little leaner perhaps, and in many ways better; better imaging, for sure. However, most notably, I hear sibilance and an edge to the vocals that weren't there previously. Any thoughts? Is there a break-in period? Also, I'm using a 2.1 -> 2.5 female-to-male adapter for the DC cable until I purchase a cable with a 5.5/2.5 connector.

Since the switch is the most important device in order of magnitude for improvement of SQ, what else is connected to the switch besides DC power (DC seems ok for now)?

You could compare input and output options depending what cables you choose to connect to router and server. Preferred DAC cables (to network card) vs. RJ45 Ethernet cables (to router less important but still )? What SFP modules? If you use Ethernet cable, try with cat5/6 unshielded vs. a cable with shields connected at both ends.

At a second thought, what control device are you using (wifi) and what access point is connected to the router?

It could be that you hear more of what always has been there?

The Q&A section in the switch manual might give some answers.There is not really a switch manual but a 24 p. document called Extreme network card and switch product summary and faq. P 21 cue for optimal Merging connection. I do not have a remedy, but just a few things you might want to check. Hope it helps.

 

[marty]

Red copper is copper without alloys, yellow copper is an alloy with zinc (brass), white copper is an alloy with zinc and nickel.

So red copper = copper, the purer it is, the softer and more malleable it is.

What are Red Metals?​

Though the red metals are all quite different in composition, quality, and application, they all have one unifying component: copper.

As one of the first metals mined by our ancestors, copper has been integral to the development of societies and serves as the base metal for the other two red metals: brass and bronze.

I just received a reply from Leo Leng, the CEO of Viborg who said:

"Red Copper means pure copper , the purity will be 99.998%.
What we use it is T1 copper, means the highest purity copper"

Well, there you have it!

Frankly I was surprised because while I've seen pure copper prongs (Furutech offers them as well), I didn't think pure copper was preferred on female receptacles or spring connectors because pure copper is quite soft and too easily deformed (not to mention that it will corrode rather easily). As far as I know most IEC chassis connectors (by Furutech and others) are generally phosphor bronze or beryllium copper for that reason. Viborg's IEC chassis connectors appear to made from red copper or (optionally) gold plated red copper but at least we know what they mean now by "Red Copper". Red Copper is T1 copper.

 

[joet]

Since the switch is the most important device in order of magnitude for improvement of SQ, what else is connected to the switch besides DC power (DC seems ok for now)?

You could compare input and output options depending what cables you choose to connect to router and server. Preferred DAC cables (to network card) vs. RJ45 Ethernet cables (to router less important but still )? What SFP modules? If you use Ethernet cable, try with cat5/6 unshielded vs. a cable with shields connected at both ends.

At a second thought, what control device are you using (wifi) and what access point is connected to the router?

It could be that you hear more of what always has been there?

The Q&A section in the switch manual might give some answers.There is not really a switch manual but a 24 p. document called Extreme network card and switch product summary and faq. P 21 cue for optimal Merging connection. I do not have a remedy, but just a few things you might want to check. Hope it helps.

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to offer advice and a thoughtful reply. I agree that everything matters, and am familiar with the switch FAQs. As for the latest, the sibilance is much reduced from where it was before. Regarding why, I can only think of three things, 1) I think warm-up was somewhat needed. The switch hadn’t had power to it for an extended period when I first listened. Now it’s been a good 8 or 9 hours. 2) I’m using an Eero mesh network, and each node is basically an access point with its own traffic. (I haven’t created a dedicated audio network yet.) The app indicated there were 7 Wi-Fi devices connected to the node the switch was cabled to. I rebooted the node in order to kick off all the other devices except the directly connected switch. 3) Maybe the plug adapter isn’t helping. I just ordered a DC cable with a 2.5mm connector so I don’t need to use an adaptor. I should get it Friday.

All in all, the switch sounds great. It’s got a different sound profile than the SOtM switches, the SOtM is smoother, where the Taiko is more dynamic. Speaking objectively, the Taiko images much better than the SOtM and is also probably more tonally accurate. I know Emile wasn’t a fan of the SOtM switches in his review, but he didn’t have them connected to a clock (and maybe a good PSU for that matter) when he did his evaluation. I think the reason the SOtM switches are even in the conversation is they’re being driven by a $40K clock.

 

[MarcelNL]

I just received a reply from Leo Leng, the CEO of Viborg who said:

"Red Copper means pure copper , the purity will be 99.998%.
What we use it is T1 copper, means the highest purity copper"

Well, there you have it!

Frankly I was surprised because while I've seen pure copper prongs (Furutech offers them as well), I didn't think pure copper was preferred on female receptacles or spring connectors because pure copper is quite soft and too easily deformed (not to mention that it will corrode rather easily). As far as I know most IEC chassis connectors (by Furutech and others) are generally phosphor bronze or beryllium copper for that reason. Viborg's IEC chassis connectors appear to made from red copper or gold plated red copper but at least we know what they mean now by "Red Copper". Red Copper is T1 copper.

thanks for reaching out! We did check loads of stuff in the process to find these.

 

[Taiko Audio]

General update on stocks / Router:

As of today all chrome finish switches from the first 2 batches are sold out, with the exception of 10 black finish switches. Most of these have shipped, we had a dozen or so with imperfect surface finishes which have been refinished and are now on their way back to us, we can ship those next week.

The next batch of switches are estimated to start shipping from the 3rd of July.

There are still 30 Routers / DC distributors left in the first batch.

We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance, and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier then the switch/networkcard bundle.

The downside is the increased BOM (Bill Of Materials), and we already forgot to include a few items in that, meaning we will have to increase the Router price, likely to at least EURO 6600 and possibly a bit more, but of course we will honour the EURO 6000 presale price and those who placed presale orders will get the wi-fi update for free.

 

[Taiko Audio]

So I received my switch on Monday. What an incredibly beautiful component. And the flight case is over the top. I've really come to respect and admire what Emile and the company are doing from both a sonic and service perspective and look forward to the router, distributor, and beyond.

Up until now, I've been using a pair of SOtM switches, powered by a Mojo Illuminati 3 (with distinct rails) and a $40K Merging Clock -U. At first listen of the Taiko switch (powered by the Illuminati 3) the sound was certainly different, a little leaner perhaps, and in many ways better; better imaging, for sure. However, most notably, I hear sibilance and an edge to the vocals that weren't there previously. Any thoughts? Is there a break-in period? Also, I'm using a 2.1 -> 2.5 female-to-male adapter for the DC cable until I purchase a cable with a 5.5/2.5 connector.

Hi @joet ,

Very interesting, thank you for reporting this.

Indeed sibilance and "leanness", especially relative to SotM switches, 40K USD clock or not, is opposite to what you should get. With almost 200 switches shipped it's also the first report which makes it all the more interesting to spend some effort on investigating.

First of all do I assume correctly you are using a Merging DAC and hence stream over Ethernet?

How is this connected? Are both the Merging DAC and Extreme Server connected to the Sotm stack and do you insert the Extreme Switch between Sotm stack and Extreme Server? Or do you connect the Merging DAC to a secondary network port of the Extreme Server?

Did you try a different power supply? Even if just the supplied wall-wart SMPS? Obviously the wall-wart should be inferior but not in the areas of sibilance, more in the area of flatter imaging and a "greyer" more smeared midrange. The reason I'm asking is that the power supply "noise" will dominate the total noise spectrum of the switch. I have no experience with the Mojo and it looks very good on paper, but these: "High-frequency MLCC bypass capacitors to filter beyond 3GHz" tend to be piezoelectric which means they can generate noise when for example vibration is applied, so it might be worthwhile to investigate damping the power supply chassis, for example place it on rubber footers, weight load the top etc. It's not a knock as MLCC capacitors are the most efficient capacitors for high frequency filtering and you'll find them in just about any modern electronic device, but something worthy of investigating nonetheless.

Lastly I see you have Daizas, did you place your Extreme Switch on one? If so please try reverting as as strange as it may sound they don't combine well.

 

[John T]

Hi @joet ,

Very interesting, thank you for reporting this.

Indeed sibilance and "leanness", especially relative to SotM switches, 40K USD clock or not, is opposite to what you should get. With almost 200 switches shipped it's also the first report which makes it all the more interesting to spend some effort on investigating.

First of all do I assume correctly you are using a Merging DAC and hence stream over Ethernet?

How is this connected? Are both the Merging DAC and Extreme Server connected to the Sotm stack and do you insert the Extreme Switch between Sotm stack and Extreme Server? Or do you connect the Merging DAC to a secondary network port of the Extreme Server?

Did you try a different power supply? Even if just the supplied wall-wart SMPS? Obviously the wall-wart should be inferior but not in the areas of sibilance, more in the area of flatter imaging and a "greyer" more smeared midrange. The reason I'm asking is that the power supply "noise" will dominate the total noise spectrum of the switch. I have no experience with the Mojo and it looks very good on paper, but these: "High-frequency MLCC bypass capacitors to filter beyond 3GHz" tend to be piezoelectric which means they can generate noise when for example vibration is applied, so it might be worthwhile to investigate damping the power supply chassis, for example place it on rubber footers, weight load the top etc. It's not a knock as MLCC capacitors are the most efficient capacitors for high frequency filtering and you'll find them in just about any modern electronic device, but something worthy of investigating nonetheless.

Lastly I see you have Daizas, did you place your Extreme Switch on one? If so please try reverting as as strange as it may sound they don't combine well.

Would Ravenna have anything to to do with this?

 

[wil]

Hi @joet ,

Very interesting, thank you for reporting this.

Indeed sibilance and "leanness", especially relative to SotM switches, 40K USD clock or not, is opposite to what you should get. With almost 200 switches shipped it's also the first report which makes it all the more interesting to spend some effort on investigating.

First of all do I assume correctly you are using a Merging DAC and hence stream over Ethernet?

How is this connected? Are both the Merging DAC and Extreme Server connected to the Sotm stack and do you insert the Extreme Switch between Sotm stack and Extreme Server? Or do you connect the Merging DAC to a secondary network port of the Extreme Server?

Did you try a different power supply? Even if just the supplied wall-wart SMPS? Obviously the wall-wart should be inferior but not in the areas of sibilance, more in the area of flatter imaging and a "greyer" more smeared midrange. The reason I'm asking is that the power supply "noise" will dominate the total noise spectrum of the switch. I have no experience with the Mojo and it looks very good on paper, but these: "High-frequency MLCC bypass capacitors to filter beyond 3GHz" tend to be piezoelectric which means they can generate noise when for example vibration is applied, so it might be worthwhile to investigate damping the power supply chassis, for example place it on rubber footers, weight load the top etc. It's not a knock as MLCC capacitors are the most efficient capacitors for high frequency filtering and you'll find them in just about any modern electronic device, but something worthy of investigating nonetheless.

Lastly I see you have Daizas, did you place your Extreme Switch on one? If so please try reverting as as strange as it may sound they don't combine well.

I have two small Daizas I was planning to use under the switch and router. Any idea why the Switch (and Router) aren’t a good combination with Daiza?

 

[John T]

I have two small Daizas I was planning to use under the switch and router. Any idea why the Switch (and Router) aren’t a good combination with Daiza?

I had some 3/4" walnut laying around. I adhered 5/8" cork underneath, works like charm. Some Red or White Oak would also work well...I kept the cork approx. 1/4" off the edges of the walnut...

 

[Taiko Audio]

I have two small Daizas I was planning to use under the switch and router. Any idea why the Switch (and Router) aren’t a good combination with Daiza?

We originally planned on using panzerholz footers and machined a bunch:



But they turned out to have a negative effect.

It’s not entirely surprising as over the years we figured out the Daizas / Panzerholz is an excellent cure for addressing Aluminum resonance, we developed them specifically for the Extreme, they’re virtually always positive for anything made out of Aluminum, but a less good fit for other materials, like the solid copper switch chassis where the pairing creates an unfavourable thin / harsh spectrum.