Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

Stereophonic

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Stereophonic,

I think you are polluting this thread with no useful information whatsoever. Hope it makes you feel good. Very distracting to me. I would ask either you or the moderators to remove this pic/post as it is inappropriate in general and has nothing to do with this thread.

Yesterday I’ve posted useful information but it seems you hasn’t see it and i’m still waiting a serious technical answer.
I’m not a designer so this thread is useful to make questions to the professionals.
Anyway i’ll write a serious post when i have time but you have to have more open mind. Otherwise that seem like a SGM sect where any discrepancy is rejected without argument.
 

Rhapsody

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Yesterday I’ve posted useful information but it seems you hasn’t see it and i’m still waiting a serious technical answer.
I’m not a designer so this thread is useful to make questions to the professionals.
Anyway i’ll write a serious post when i have time but you have to have more open mind. Otherwise that seem like a SGM sect where any discrepancy is rejected without argument.

I am referring to your posts in this thread today. They were totally distracting and definitely not informative imho.

Regarding your useful information from yesterday, all I saw and I saw it yesterday was your pic of the Wadax server. I've seen that pic in more appropriate threads here and other places over the last week. Great pic. It wasn't useful to me in the Extreme thread, but I'm not a moderator and I just ignored it. Normally I would have ignored your posts/pics of today, but enough is enough.

Have a good day or night depending on where you are.

Bob
 
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Taiko Audio

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i’m still waiting a serious technical answer.

If that was the cpu power question, it has been asked and replied to several times in this thread, I have responded with a link to where you can find that information. If it’s something else I must have missed it, feel free to ask again.
 
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Stereophonic

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I am referring to your posts in this thread today. They were totally distracting and definitely not informative imho.

A little sense of humor is very sane. I recommend you to relax and enjoy.

Regarding your useful information from yesterday, all I saw and I saw it yesterday was your pic of the Wadax server. I've seen that pic in more appropriate threads here and other places over the last week. Great pic. It wasn't useful to me in the Extreme thread, but I'm not a moderator and I just ignored it. Normally I would have ignored your posts/pics of today, but enough is enough.

It seems you see what you want to see.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...treme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-614852

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...treme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-614888

Have a good day or night depending on where you are.

Bob

I wish you too...
 

Taiko Audio

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adyc

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It is so strange. Some designers are open to their designs. But they got attacked all the time on their design choices. It is not just this case here. It also happens to Chord DAC in Headfi forum or UpTone products in AS forum. One common theme is that the designers are actively participating the discussions. But some people are just not happy if the answers do not fit in their thinking. They even do not bother to listen to the products.

No wonder most companies do not bother to participate any discussions. There is nothing to gain but everything to lose.
 
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Rhapsody

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Your recommendation of how I should be is noted, but of no interest to me.

All I saw from your referenced posts above was you questioning the Extreme and why it was designed the way that it was. Although they were legitimate questions and Taiko has shown you where those same questions have been addressed several times preciously in this thread.
 
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Stereophonic

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Your recommendation of how I should be is noted, but of no interest to me.

All I saw from your referenced posts above was you questioning the Extreme and why it was designed the way that it was. Although they were legitimate questions and Taiko has shown you where those same questions have been addressed several times preciously in this thread.

Thank you for legitimating my questions but as you will understand i don’t need your permission to do them.
Until where i know, this is a free forum to expose different points of view to grow everybody in this mad high end audio world.
Maybe you are satisfied with the answers. I’m sorry, i don’t.
As Adyc said, i valore the Taiko participative actitud very positive. I try to explain my point of view as clearly as i can and Taiko do the same.
I always talk with great designers to learn and understand better his designs. Being both on forums or privately.
I doesn’t doubt the Extreme is a great server but it isn’t perfect as anything isn’t.
There isn't anything wrong in that.
 
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Stereophonic

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Replied to in posts #1846, #1847, #1850, #1851

If anything is still unclear please restate and/or rephrase your questions as we may not understand what you are asking.

Thank you.
I’ll try it when i have more time.
English isn’t my first language so excuse me if i can’t explain it clearer.
 

Rhapsody

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Thank you for legitimating my questions but as you will understand i don’t need your permission to do them.
Until where i know, this is a free forum to expose different points of view to grow everybody in this mad high end audio world.
Maybe you are satisfied with the answers. I’m sorry, i don’t.
As Adyc said, i valore the Taiko participative actitud very positive. I try to explain my point of view as clearly as i can and Taiko do the same.
I always talk with great designers to learn and understand better his designs. Being both on forums or privately.
I doesn’t doubt the Extreme is a great server but it isn’t perfect as anything isn’t.
There isn't any wrong in that.

Your English is fine. Just wasn't a fan of the Bey pics. Oh well. Peace.
 

the sound of Tao

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I assess design for a living, different context (landscape and built form) however I regularly have industrial designers, architects, graphic and interior designers as well as other landscape architects in my classes. Design uses fundamental concepts that are multidisciplinary.

I’ve always completely admired the designs Emile develops. They are strongly rigorous in concept and in implementation (stand back there is very much a complete perfectionist at work) and just very, very whole.

Extreme is to me completely that. The overall concept seems to be to take everything out to the current known extreme of what is possible in our understanding of digital platforms. The aesthetics and specifications are equally strong here. The case is elegant and the insides are just achingly and gobsmackingly beautiful and completely true to the true beauty of form follows function.

Every designer has their own process and this comes out in the concept and it strikes me that Emile seems 110% true to his.

Instead of just grilling him because his process might not agree with your idea of what good design process is I just think we should be celebrating his work, it’s spirit and it’s accomplishment. The people who own his Extreme seem universal in their extreme happiness. I’d suggest that there is probably no better proof than that.
 

Kris

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I understood that there is quite long burn in process with extreme.
Two questions:
What was the time in your case you think was needed to get all of its SQ?
Did you keep it 24/7 running OR you prefer periodic turn on and off ?
 

Taiko Audio

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I understood that there is quite long burn in process with extreme.
Two questions:
What was the time in your case you think was needed to get all of its SQ?
Did you keep it 24/7 running OR you prefer periodic turn on and off ?

Hi Kris,

Leave it running 24/7 and in your case playing music as the Intona Ultimate needs around 10 days to loosen up. Generally 1200 hours is regarded as complete burn in for the Extreme, powercycling is not going to speed it up.
 

Audiophile Bill

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Hilarious question = hilarious answer

There is no need to compare two different servers to discredit the innuos only from internal pictures.

PD. Beyonce’s picture doesn’t hurt anybody....if it does you are taking this too seriously.

Hello - I just had a look at the thread after not looking at it for a few weeks.

The hilarity is the Innuos definition of a “Statement” server if we are talking specifically about build. I haven’t heard the Statement so will not comment on sound but the build is very poor when juxtaposed alongside either SGM or Extreme. It is just a plain and concrete fact nothing more.

Audio forums are places where people often compare gear side by side with respect to many criteria - build quality is one of them. It is what it is.
 

asiufy

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Hello - I just had a look at the thread after not looking at it for a few weeks.

The hilarity is the Innuos definition of a “Statement” server if we are talking specifically about build. I haven’t heard the Statement so will not comment on sound but the build is very poor when juxtaposed alongside either SGM or Extreme. It is just a plain and concrete fact nothing more.

Audio forums are places where people often compare gear side by side with respect to many criteria - build quality is one of them. It is what it is.

I don't think the Statement is "very poor". The build quality is in line with their design goals, simplicity above all. If their design goal was to use a super-duper CPU, they would certainly have to beef up the parts count and the built quality to accommodate the extra cooling etc. required for that.
And it costs almost a third of the price of the SGM product. Which, again, makes sense. You pay your money, you get your fancy casework. But you do get an off-the-shelf computer board with SGM, and a custom made one on the Innuos. Which, again, is part of each manufacturer's design concepts. With Innuos you also get two chassis, further isolating the noisy parts from the clean ones. For almost a third of the price.
I thought people bought gear to listen to, not gawk at. Guess I'm wrong... :)
 
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microstrip

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Hello - I just had a look at the thread after not looking at it for a few weeks.

The hilarity is the Innuos definition of a “Statement” server if we are talking specifically about build. I haven’t heard the Statement so will not comment on sound but the build is very poor when juxtaposed alongside either SGM or Extreme. It is just a plain and concrete fact nothing more.

Audio forums are places where people often comp are gear side by side with respect to many criteria - build quality is one of them. It is what it is.

We should remember that the Statement price is less than half of that of the Extreme and Innuos goes through a classic distributor/dealer retail scheme. Besides they are not directly comparable - the Statement includes a CD ripper.

IMHO the Extreme sounds excellent and represents extremely good value for money - no need to bash the competition. I had the Statement in my system and is was a jump in sound quality compared to everything else I had listened. Probably if I could not afford the Extreme I would have got the Innuos Statement.

BTW I have found that the high-end built quality becomes subjective - audiophiles forgive everything to products they love and are extremely exigent with those they do not admire.

Edit - I wrote this message before Alex posted the previous one, but according to my rule of the ten minutes wait it was only posted after his post.
 

Rhapsody

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I don't even want to post in this thread at this point, but let's get real. This thread was moving along nicely as usual. Then non-Extreme users and specifically Innuos user(s) posted in the thread questioning the engineering, design and build quality of the Extreme. You can go back and look at the thread from say mid last week.

The only reason a member posted the pics comparing the Innuos and the Extreme was to clarify the design and the build quality by a simple side by side comparison. These pics would never have been posted in this thread if a Innuos user via many posts had not been questioning the design intent, engineering and build quality of the Extreme.

My suggestion is that this thread should continue with the focus on the Extreme, which is where it was at prior to a few days ago. Let's just move on.

No one that has been posting about the Extreme here for six months wanted to bring Innuos into this thread at this time, but it did happen and then it was almost a knee-jerk reaction to defend the Extreme with clear evidence regarding engineering and hw layout.

I think any of the Extreme users would compliment the Innous products as well as the other top servers. No need to really compare them. What is great is having Emile here to help both Extreme users and Extreme potential users optimize their use of the Extreme.

Cheers and everyone have a great week in preparation for the holiday season!
 

Blackmorec

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These pictures, are VERY appropriate in this discussion. Why? Because Blackmorec, who on the Innuos thread is noted as completely happy with his Innuos server and selected it because he believed in the design and engineering of the product, comes over to the Taiko Audio Extreme thread and pretty much in long, intelligent posts, questions the validity of the design and the design process which occurred in the development of the Extreme.

These pics illustrate, not the SQ or reliability of either product, but do allow one to judge for themselves with respect to build quality and the overall design architecture of both products.
Hi Rhapsody,
I think I need to maybe clarify what i meant by my comments. Firstly I’d just like to mention that before I retired I spent over 40 years in the high tech industry, so I’m extremely familiar with product life cycles and the like.
Somewhere back in this thread, someone posted something along the lines of; “if you can think of a better way to develop a product than trial and error......” and that’s what i reacted to. For me, trial-and-error is the same as hit-and-miss and in my experience has no place in professionally engineered high tech products. The problem with my point was, and I probably even realised this while I was writing in, judging by the number of caveats I inserted, as soon as i reflected on what I’d written I realised that the Extreme was not a product of trial and error, hit and miss engineering as I understand it. Quite the opposite. The Extreme is a thoroughly well thought out piece of kit. Does that mean that what i wrote was BS? No....but what it does mean is that what I think of as trial and error.....essentially shooting in the dark until I hit something, was not what was actually meant in the very first text. What was meant IMO was.....”if there’s a better way than testing and listening to all the components before they go into the final design”...If the question had been phrased thus; I would have simply agreed that in matters where audio uses computer components, which were never developed with audio in mind, all need to be listened to as their specs offer absolutely no guide to their effect on sound quality.
I hope that clears up any misconceptions. I think the Extreme is an awesome piece of kit and it was clearly developed with a clear plan in place....to sound the best it possibly could. But from my standpoint at least, the design and engineering that went into it need a better description than ‘trial and error’. Essentially what I wrote was a critique of trial and error, which I would say I erroneously linked to the Extreme. I hope that clears up any misunderstandings
 

Rhapsody

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I don't even want to post in this thread at this point, but let's get real. This thread was moving along nicely as usual. Then non-Extreme users and specifically Innuos user(s) posted in the thread questioning the engineering, design and build quality of the Extreme. You can go back and look at the thread from say mid last week.

The only reason a member posted the pics comparing the Innuos and the Extreme was to clarify the design and the build quality by a simple side by side comparison. These pics would never have been posted in this thread if a Innuos user via many posts had not been questioning the design intent, engineering and build quality of the Extreme.

My suggestion is that this thread should continue with the focus on the Extreme, which is where it was at prior to a few days ago. Let's just move on. No one that has been posting about the Extreme here for six months wanted to bring Innuos into this thread at this time, but it did happen and then it was almost a knee-jerk reaction to defend the Extreme with clear evidence regarding engineering and hw layout.

I think any of the Extreme users would compliment the Innous products as well as the other top servers. No need to really compare them. What is great is having Emile here to help both Extreme users and Extreme potential users optimize their use of the Extreme.
Hi Rhapsody,
I think I need to maybe clarify what i meant by my comments. Firstly I’d just like to mention that before I retired I spent over 40 years in the high tech industry, so I’m extremely familiar with product life cycles and the like.
Somewhere back in this thread, someone posted something along the lines of; “if you can think of a better way to develop a product than trial and error......” and that’s what i reacted to. For me, trial-and-error is the same as hit-and-miss and in my experience has no place in professionally engineered high tech products. The problem with my point was, and I probably even realised this while I was writing in, judging by the number of caveats I inserted, as soon as i reflected on what I’d written I realised that the Extreme was not a product of trial and error, hit and miss engineering as I understand it. Quite the opposite. The Extreme is a thoroughly well thought out piece of kit. Does that mean that what i wrote was BS? No....but what it does mean is that what I think of as trial and error.....essentially shooting in the dark until I hit something, was not what was actually meant in the very first text. What was meant IMO was.....”if there’s a better way than testing and listening to all the components before they go into the final design”...If the question had been phrased thus; I would have simply agreed that in matters where audio uses computer components, which were never developed with audio in mind, all need to be listened to as their specs offer absolutely no guide to their effect on sound quality.
I hope that clears up any misconceptions. I think the Extreme is an awesome piece of kit and it was clearly developed with a clear plan in place....to sound the best it possibly could. But from my standpoint at least, the design and engineering that went into it need a better description than ‘trial and error’. Essentially what I wrote was a critique of trial and error, which I would say I erroneously linked to the Extreme. I hope that clears up any misunderstandings
All good. We are definitely living in the Golden Age of servers, with probably much more to come in the future.

As I said I think it's just time to move on. All good.
 

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