Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Nils]

certainly true, but discord is mainly for discussing how the sausage is made. when the sausage is ready for the grill, i'm sure a lot of activity will return here............and the wait will have been worth it, trust me!

Definitely true - before Discord several of us remarked that this thread became hard to follow mixing in tons of individual setup issues, bugs (as always in Alpha and Beta there are bugs to iron out).

As all of these discussions are now kept and managed (well) in Discord -> there are fewer posts here - to be expected.

XDMS brings spectacular SQ improvements over TAS (and Roon) - it is quickly moving toward a more user-friendly state so that all Extreme-users comfortably can enjoy it without having to delve deep into low-level techy bits.

There is still some way to go though - both XDMS Server and Player (residing on Extreme) and the XDMS Control-app need to be click-and-install before all Extreme-users can enjoy them.

XDMS Control-app is already distributed via Apple's Testflight-app or easily downloaded from Discord so almost done.

XDMS Server & Player are downloadable from Discord but with manual installation on Extreme requiring some technical ability (I managed my first self-install two days ago).

It is the installation of XDMS Server & Player that the heroic @EuroDriver has been doing countless times via TeamViewer so far - that does not scale -> need standard and automated way of doing install before releasing XDMS to all Extreme-owners.

 

[wil]

I'd better get hip on Discord, because I have had quite a few problems with XDMS hanging up on me for extended periods (no music!!!), and then mysteriously working again. I'm starting to develop superstitious "chicken dance" imaginings for what agency I have to influence these events. Maybe folks on Discord have this all sorted already.....

Chicken dance not needed! My connection to Qobuz via xdms dropped out several times last week. I went to Dischord after the first time and saw it was the result of the streaming aggregator which Taiko uses crashing. It was usually back up within an hour or so I think. For me, it was immensely helpful just to know what was going on and not have to resort to my own futile chicken dance.

Also, now that I know the elementary navigation into the VNC TaskManager, I don’t need to bother Edward as often. For example, it’s easy and fast to switch between Xdms and Roon.

 

[Steve Williams]

Well here we go...this wonderful thread is heating up again

 

[cat6man]

Chicken dance not needed! My connection to Qobuz via xdms dropped out several times last week. I went to Dischord after the first time and saw it was the result of the streaming aggregator which Taiko uses crashing. It was usually back up within an hour or so I think. For me, it was immensely helpful just to know what was going on and not have to resort to my own futile chicken dance.

Also, now that I know the elementary navigation into the VNC TaskManager, I don’t need to bother Edward as often. For example, it’s easy and fast to switch between Xdms and Roon.

was this also seen by TAS users as well? if so, it is not an xdms issue.
if it is only xdms, let's please try to keep the sausage making discussions in one place (i.e. discord).
there are supposed to be bugs in alpha releases

perhaps @Taiko could give a periodic alpha update to folks here on this thread, so that non-alpha users can feel more involved in the SQ (r)evolution underway?

 

[dminches]

was this also seen by TAS users as well? if so, it is not an xdms issue.
if it is only xdms, let's please try to keep the sausage making discussions in one place (i.e. discord).
there are supposed to be bugs in alpha releases

perhaps @Taiko could give a periodic alpha update to folks here on this thread, so that non-alpha users can feel more involved in the SQ (r)evolution underway?

I would prefer people who are interested in the advancement of the alpha version join Discord so Ed and Co. aren't spending even more time trying to keep people informed. Everything one needs to know about alpha can just read the blog, control-apps and backend threads.

I think there are a number of Extreme users who are fine just sitting on the sidelines until the beta version is released (just my guess).

 

[cat6man]

I would prefer people who are interested in the advancement of the alpha version join Discord so Ed and Co. aren't spending even more time trying to keep people informed. Everything one needs to know about alpha can just read the blog, control-apps and backend threads.

I think there are a number of Extreme users who are fine just sitting on the sidelines until the beta version is released (just my guess).

i understand what you're saying, but imho, having non-alpha users in the alpha discussions would not be productive either.
perhaps a monthly update for this thread? (unless no one here wants it)

 

[dminches]

i understand what you're saying, but imho, having non-alpha users in the alpha discussions would not be productive either.
perhaps a monthly update for this thread? (unless no one here wants it)

Oh, I agree they shouldn't be part of the discussion unless they are running alpha. I was merely suggesting that they READ it to keep up to date.

Monthly updates would be great as well.

 

[tubes59]

Chicken dance not needed! My connection to Qobuz via xdms dropped out several times last week. I went to Dischord after the first time and saw it was the result of the streaming aggregator which Taiko uses crashing. It was usually back up within an hour or so I think. For me, it was immensely helpful just to know what was going on and not have to resort to my own futile chicken dance.

Also, now that I know the elementary navigation into the VNC TaskManager, I don’t need to bother Edward as often. For example, it’s easy and fast to switch between Xdms and Roon.

So, about easily switching from XDMS and Roon... Is it as simple as going into Task Manager and switching off both xdms-server and xdms-player and switching on TaikoRoon and then restarting from the XDMS app? Are there any other steps needed to get Roon up and playing again? I'm a Mac guy and have been worried I would foul something up so have not yet tried the switch between the two but would like to...and also be able to get back to XDMS when I want to.

 

[Steve Williams]

The easiest way IMO is to just stop using Roon. Most of these issues will then disappear. All of us unanimously agree that the SQ of XDMS trumps Roon. So why use Roon

 

[tubes59]

The easiest way IMO is to just stop using Roon. Most of these issues will then disappear. All of us unanimously agree that the SQ of XDMS trumps Roon. So why use Roon

Well two reasons for me. I have not heard Roon since I installed XDMS. I would like to A/B between the two for the enjoyment of that and to cement my opinion about them. The second reason is that there are sometimes I want to listen and just let it play. If there is a way to do this in XDMS right now, I have not found it. That's not a criticism as I don't expect the alpha to be able to do that yet but I still like listening that way sometimes.

 

[wil]

So, about easily switching from XDMS and Roon... Is it as simple as going into Task Manager and switching off both xdms-server and xdms-player and switching on TaikoRoon and then restarting from the XDMS app? Are there any other steps needed to get Roon up and playing again? I'm a Mac guy and have been worried I would foul something up so have not yet tried the switch between the two but would like to...and also be able to get back to XDMS when

Yes, exactly as you described. Fast and simple.

 

[wil]

The easiest way IMO is to just stop using Roon. Most of these issues will then disappear. All of us unanimously agree that the SQ of XDMS trumps Roon. So why use Roon

I’m always thankful to have a backup. When the Qobuz stream was unavailable several times last week due to the Aggregator crashes, I was happy to retreat to Roon.

And while I prefer XDMS, and expect it will keep getting better and better, Roon also provides excellent sound quality in my system.

 

[Steve Williams]

I think I’ve been on Roon 3 times since TAS was in alpha

I truly do not miss it. As for the bugs, in XDMS I love being a part of it and seeing it develop around us. I use Discord to read the issues people are finding but rarely comment as it is way above my pay grade Yet it helps me to understand what others are finding. To date I’ve not had my system crash as others have experienced.

 

[ctydwn]

I too enjoy the developments in real time on Discord. Very fun and collegial. Seems like it has unleashed the depth of technical skills and savvy of a number of forum members all with the sole goal of improving SQ and its accessibility. Cool to see more of folks' personalities as well.

Fwiw, I have been streaming Qobuz through XDMS (alpha v1) for the past 8 days around the clock breaking in my amps with no dropouts. Looking forward to the updated versions!

 

[godofwealth]

Chicken dance not needed! My connection to Qobuz via xdms dropped out several times last week. I went to Dischord after the first time and saw it was the result of the streaming aggregator which Taiko uses crashing. It was usually back up within an hour or so I think. For me, it was immensely helpful just to know what was going on and not have to resort to my own futile chicken dance.

Also, now that I know the elementary navigation into the VNC TaskManager, I don’t need to bother Edward as often. For example, it’s easy and fast to switch between Xdms and Roon.

Why am I not getting the point of this Taiko frenzy? You pay 30 grand fur a server that is unable to stream Qobuz properly (something that a $1k Mac mini would probably do effortlessly). Does this bother anyone on this rather incredibly long thread? Or is the mere fact of ownership transcend such pedestrian concerns that the said product should actually work?

Incidentally, as someone who has spent his entire life in high end computer science, Taiko’s software glitches don’t surprise me at all. You can gilt edge the hardware all you like. It’s the software reliability that’s the tough nut to crack. Roon went through many iterations to get a measure of stability. As a sixty something who first used a web browser 30+ years ago called Netscape (anyone remember that?), it would crash every 5 minutes. I wish Taiko the best of luck, but much larger companies have been unable to crack this problem (I own a Sony media server, and its software is simply awful). Taiko is a really small company. Producing reliable streaming software will take an enormous amount of resources, as Roon has discovered.

 

[ctydwn]

Hm. Have not noticed your participation once on this thread in the last 639 pages. You may want to read up a bit before throwing out such speculative comments/criticisms. In a nutshell, Taiko Extreme + Roon already delivers incredible SQ. Taiko software now in its second formal iteration has taken SQ to a new level and the interface continues to improve. And to be clear based on my experience, as I posted a few hours ago, I have had zero streaming issues. Taiko is not alone in having created dedicated music software like Aurender and Innuous. So to your question, from one person's point of view, fwiw, no, it does not bother me at all.

 

[godofwealth]

Sure, Roon with any well designed hardware platform will work well, I expect. I use the Lampizator server, but the first thing I did was install the Roon Rock Linux server on it (I was not surprised at all that Lampi’s own software was non-functional when I tried to use it). The world runs on Linux. It’s the most stable OS that’s also free (the two are not an accidental coincidence).

To reiterate my point. It’s not the hardware I’m talking about. It’s the software. Clearly, Taiko has gilt edged the hardware. Great. But what about the software? I take it they are trying to roll their own. I wish them the best of luck. All the gilt-edged hardware in the world at the end of the day means little to produce solid reliable software. Clearly, folks on this thread are finding that out. That’s what I was commenting on.

Let me put It another way. The pioneer in the audio streaming world, long before Roon, was Squuezebox. They put out an amazing lineup of forward thinking products (e.g., the Transporter) that was miles ahead of others. Their secret to success was making it open and based on Linux. A huge community sprung up to find bugs and fix them. A huge number of third party apps came out of Squeeze software. Enter Sony. They made hugely better hardware, e.g., HAP-Z1ES media server. Their software was proprietary and a joke. If you tried to upload your library of albums, what would take Squeeze an hour or so could take several days on the Sony (I know because I went through that experience). Their hardware was great. Their software was awful.

So, I’m only referring to Taiko’s recent efforts at software streaming, not their hardware and Roon integration. It’s very very hard to get reliable streaming done right. It takes enormous resources. It’s much harder than building gilt edged hardware.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

So, about easily switching from XDMS and Roon... Is it as simple as going into Task Manager and switching off both xdms-server and xdms-player and switching on TaikoRoon and then restarting from the XDMS app? Are there any other steps needed to get Roon up and playing again? I'm a Mac guy and have been worried I would foul something up so have not yet tried the switch between the two but would like to...and also be able to get back to XDMS when I want to.

There are exceptions, but in most cases, it is indeed as simple as that. And we are working on simplifying this by making it possible to switch from the XDMS app.

 

[Lojay]

Sure, Roon with any well designed hardware platform will work well, I expect. I use the Lampizator server, but the first thing I did was install the Roon Rock Linux server on it (I was not surprised at all that Lampi’s own software was non-functional when I tried to use it). The world runs on Linux. It’s the most stable OS that’s also free (the two are not an accidental coincidence).

To reiterate my point. It’s not the hardware I’m talking about. It’s the software. Clearly, Taiko has gilt edged the hardware. Great. But what about the software? I take it they are trying to roll their own. I wish them the best of luck. All the gilt-edged hardware in the world at the end of the day means little to produce solid reliable software. Clearly, folks on this thread are finding that out. That’s what I was commenting on.

Let me put It another way. The pioneer in the audio streaming world, long before Roon, was Squuezebox. They put out an amazing lineup of forward thinking products (e.g., the Transporter) that was miles ahead of others. Their secret to success was making it open and based on Linux. A huge community sprung up to find bugs and fix them. A huge number of third party apps came out of Squeeze software. Enter Sony. They made hugely better hardware, e.g., HAP-Z1ES media server. Their software was proprietary and a joke. If you tried to upload your library of albums, what would take Squeeze an hour or so could take several days on the Sony (I know because I went through that experience). Their hardware was great. Their software was awful.

So, I’m only referring to Taiko’s recent efforts at software streaming, not their hardware and Roon integration. It’s very very hard to get reliable streaming done right. It takes enormous resources. It’s much harder than building gilt edged hardware.

Speaking for myself, the current iteration of XDMS is already leaps and bounds ahead of Roon when playing music files on the Extreme server. Not just in terms of sound quality but also in terms of navigation of one’s music files (the lack of folder view on Roon makes it pretty much unusable for me from a practical standpoint). In terms of stability and lack of bugs it is far ahead of TAS, the proprietary software it replaced. And it’s still in Alpha state. I think it’s quite remarkable if you ask me.

I think Taiko is fully aware of how difficult software development is, but nevertheless went down this path so that they could achieve the absolute best sound quality, in my book that is extremely commendable and ought to be encouraged.

 

[Blue58]

I’m feeling ‘left out’, not encouraged to join discourse and sat on the sidelines.
Roon self imploded, now uninstalled.
TAS is my friend, but never buys a drink at the bar.