What he said.
Reading this thread recently is like watching soldiers in an army fight among themselves, often forgetting we're all on the same side. In fact you are buying a product (and a damned good one) as well as a journey. I have no desire to torture myself presently with the struggles of XDMS development yet as I am perfectly content with Roon because it's better suited to my listening style, not to mention I think it sounds very good. My view is that if you can't be happy to listening to music using Roon, you're not a music lover as much as you might be a gear head. I have no doubt XDMS SQ is better as confirmed by many and I anticipate that it will not be long until XDMS becomes a staple for me as it has for others. In the meantime, I'll be a patient cheerleader for Taiko while the clock is ticking. If you've had any interaction at all with Emile or his team, you should understand why only a fool would bet against them.
...usually, your posts are cogent and insightful. This is not one I would place in either of those categories, but as you noted: it's your "view." Funny, as I am certainly not a "gear head." I just don't care for Roon. I find it fascinating when folks push back against not liking Roon. Funny that...
What specifically don't you like about Roon? "I don't care for Roon" Can you elaborate? Could perhaps Roon be system dependent? Lacking Articulation? Homogenized? My amplification in the Mephisto is as neutral and transparent a amp there is. If the same amplification had a heavier presentation Maybe Roon wouldn't present itself in the same fashion. I'm attempting to understand why Roon is so frowned upon yet so excepted in the same realm. I use Roon and I have had moments where it wasn't quite right, maybe as Emile suggested going between TAS and ROON changes perception. I find this very interesting. Furthermore to tell Marty who has vast Knowledge that this post was not cogent or insightful is Bull Shit...One more thought your posts are typically insightful, humorous, and most enjoyable, this wasn't one of them.
So still using TAS for the most past … and occasionally browsing via Roon. So the big question is: In what category does that put me? A some Christmas romantic with a hint of audiophile procrastination?!
Fair enough and edited accordingly. For me, it is not the SQ of Roon that is essential. Rather, it's a teaching tool I can't live without. It allows me to learn about the music I'm listening to in a way that isn't possible elsewhere or as easily. On the quality side, its both very good and good enough. If the goal of great SQ is to convey musical enjoyment, I'm good with what Roon provides, for me. In that sense, I don't feel compelled to trade convenience and music education for better software (or gear) that would provide superior SQ to that of Roon/Taiko. At least not yet. For ultimate SQ, I have a very capable analog rig, and vinyl still holds the upper hand in my system. But man, let's face it, pushing a button is a heck of a lot easier. With Roon, I don't mind pushing that button. A lot.
It's fascinating to hear descriptions of the Roon sound compared to the TAS and XDMS sound. The difference in my system to Christian's (and others I've talked to) are polar opposites. Here, Roon sounds more incisive, spritely, with more perceived space between instruments. TAS/XDMS has more body, reverberation and perhaps more dimension. No doubt, XDMS will just keep getting better in all fronts.
Hi Wil, this is interesting... In matters audio, things are often relative. But I would certainly not describe Roon on any server or DAC that I heard as being more incisive or spritely than XDMS or TAS. At least, not with 1.8, and even less so with 2.0. Could it be that we use different words to describe similar sonic aspects? Or maybe it is a matter of interpretation. What I mean by incisive and spritely is that the sound is more direct, crisper, and more articulate. Mainly, this relates to how I perceive transient sharpness (sharper with TAS and XDMS, smoother with Roon). Roon could be said to be airier, and when you mention more dimensionality, more reverberation, and more perceived space between instruments with Roon, these are aspects that I can follow. In any case, no matter which you prefer, both are catered to with the Extreme
Clearly everyone is different.
For me, I feel just the opposite. I can remember vividly about 3-4 years ago when Roon went south after another update, it was Emile who asked the question if any other of us listeners felt the same.A huge discussion ensued that went on for quite a while as to al of the theories . I remember Romaz explanation made the most sense as to Roon being top heavy with code from every new iteration. Then Emile announced he had a plan and that his goal was to control the signal path from the time it leaves the Router to the Extreme and to the time the signal path exits the Extreme. He had a plan and very shortly TAS was born and I was smitten. I have gone back to Roon. perhaps 3 short times in that interval as to me the SQ has always been better than Roon. And now we have XDMS in its alpha 2 version and the excitement I get listening to my music is simply mesmerizing. Plus the alpha 2 participants are heavy involved in discussing the way the platform should evolve.This is exciting to watch the evolution BUT in all honesty has Emile ever reneged on any of his promises as the platform evolves. The USB board was a game changer as was the new OS along with many changes along the way. Sometimes they found that the path they were on wasn't correct and quickly recognized the fact and threw out 6 weeks of coding to start over. This, along with Covid and the supply chain issues has slowed every manufacturer's desire to bring new product to market Taiko has been no exception. Yet, not once IMHO has Emile and the Taiko team failed to deliver on a promise. I have complete confidence that when Emile makes a promise, he always follows through. XDMS is a work in progress but will ultimately be released. I also believe that there will always be changes made to the platform as it evolves and more users are involved But I also believe that unlike Roon which has it's issues, Emile has found the way to update which has no negative impact on SQ. As a result it is very easy for me to be eternally optimistic as to the outcome. This plus several hardware updates soon to be available will only serve to reinforce my belief
FWIW I have no idea what Taiko has spent to date on software development but I would be willing to bet the amount is huge. And let me recap by saying that this software project will be made available to all Extreme users at NO COST. Certainly that is better than paying every year for Roon. There will be upcoming hardware additions which Emile seems very proud of and will also be in the signal path. Bottom line for me is that I have never seen a company with customer service that involves customer participation as does Taiko. I have never owned a switch in my system as I never felt the need to use such. Yet when Emile promises that the switch and new Ethernet card will add even more to the SQ, one surely must take note. Whether XDMS will always remain free can only be a Taiko decision but for now the huge sums of money Emile has paid for this project speaks volumes as to his commitment to this project.
While I have made note of the requests for enhanced library possibilities/utilities, this is not on the roadmap. We may look into this further down the road and you can be sure that we will keep adding refinements until we are 100% happy, but for now, the focus is on releasing XDMS with its current set of functionalities.
The cost of XDMS is paid when you purchase the Extreme. Nothing is free, as Taiko and others have to make money to stay in business.
