The Path to Paradise . . . or the Road to Ruin?

[Audiophile Bill]

Once he hears them, he knows what is SOTA. SOTA is that which has no alternative. Mooks, and in digital Lampi, have no alternative. For speakers and amps there always is an alternative, at the same price, higher price, and even at a lower price. That is why search for SOTA always goes on.

ADYC bought mook resonators after reading my posts for his Lampi and now has ordered another pair for preamp - mooked. You should have seen how fast Bill got hooked and mooked

Alas it is true. Best voodoo you can buy - I recently acquired the power tube resonators...

Anyway Ron - back on topic. I think the Neolith makes considerable sense for you based on previous happy experience with Logan and the fact you have a decent size room. Me - I will take the Tidal La Assoluta, thanks

 

[spiritofmusic]

My loft is going to be FULL of the little f*****s !!!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, Bill. The Neoliths remain an obvious choice. But almost no one, including me, has been able to audition them in quiet, leisurely, controlled circumstances yet. I know I will like them very much, but the question is how will they rank in the SOTA league?

Thank you, Marc, for saving me from the Mook Squad!

 

[PeterA]

Ron, I envy your quest. At the very least, it seems as though you are learning a great deal and having a heck of a time. As you hear more systems, identify the common traits in the systems you like most. I have found that only after I have prioritized what is important TO ME, can I move forward toward greater enjoyment. Having a goal and knowing how to get there makes the process much easier.

I would also go and listen to David's system in Utah. Even though you could probably not get those speakers, they, along with other speakers, may introduce you to qualities to put on a short list. As others have written, there is no perfect anything. It will help if you know which compromises you are willing to live with and which qualities must be present in your next speakers.

And just as a plug and an aside, you will do yourself a favor by hearing MadFloyd's Magico M Projects and a pair of Q7 IIs at Goodwins during your visit to Boston. I am about to audition a pair of S7s, and from everything I have read so far, they are near SOTA at a fraction of the cost.

Also, please entertain us with a write up comparing the various SOTA speakers that you have heard, without hyperbole and plenty of introspection.

 

[esldude]

What is most important about speakers even SOTA designs?

Room.

And by that I don't mean the room, but room, space, acreage. It has been my experience the bigger the room you place your speakers the better the sound possible. Some of the speakers you would be looking at cost enough you could still buy some darn fine speakers and spend money enlarging a room or building an isolated listening shack. You still might then search for the one SOTA design to make you content within that room. But at some point lesser though still great speakers and an enlarged space pay more dividends than just spending it all on speakers. How to divide that up is the issue.

Oh, and I definitely think it is a road to ruin.

 

[audioguy]

Initially I would look at the acoustics of your listening room, you may discover that you already own your 'statement' loudspeakers.
Keith.

EXCELLENT point!

 

[thedudeabides]

Muraudio PX 1?

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Ron and good evening to you sir. Purite Audio and esldude have hit on something that I think you need to pay close attention too. The room, the acoustics, the space play an extremely large part of the system. I will go one step further and mention incoming power, power cords and most definitely, interconnects and speaker cables.

I will chime in a tad bit later on this thread, as I have more I'd like to chime in on with you on this but alas...."life" gets in the way. For now, really think about the aspects presented to you from these two and how they would affect the end result as to what hits your ears. Trust your experience and trust your ears when you think about this please. With that said, have a good evening.

Tom

 

[Rodney Gold]

I can attest to the room and DRC .. small outlay on Dirac and a treated room elevated my system beyond belief ..
You need not go crazy on the room , barring some 1st reflection points and maybe a few bass traps, but you can go crazy re the DRC as to getting the whole spectrum right for your taste and expectations
There is a free trial of dirac.. try it...
At the worst , room , dirac etc will cost you $2000 and you will get $200 000 sound...

 

[Ron Resnick]

I would also go and listen to David's system in Utah. Even though you could probably not get those speakers, they, along with other speakers, may introduce you to qualities to put on a short list. As others have written, there is no perfect anything. It will help if you know which compromises you are willing to live with and which qualities must be present in your next speakers.

And just as a plug and an aside, you will do yourself a favor by hearing MadFloyd's Magico M Projects and a pair of Q7 IIs at Goodwins during your visit to Boston. I am about to audition a pair of S7s, and from everything I have read so far, they are near SOTA at a fraction of the cost.

Also, please entertain us with a write up comparing the various SOTA speakers that you have heard, without hyperbole and plenty of introspection.

Thank you for the suggestions, Peter! Yes, I would like very much to visit David. I absolutely will be visiting you and MadFloyd in Boston.

I will do my best to follow my own guidelines in my reviews!

 

[Ron Resnick]

On the importance of the room, I agree completely. I have come to believe the room is the most important component.

Pursuant to that belief I have launched into a whole new electrical infrastructure for the listening room (90A Torus balanced power transformer, dedicated AC lines with JPS in-wall wire, Furutech outlets with ground-isolated boxes, chemically-encased ground rod system (actually, thanks to DDK, TWO separate chemical ground rod systems!) and dedicated 120VAC and dedicated 240VAC lines outside of the Torus (Marty's suggestion) just in case I do not want to run amplifiers through the Torus.

On top of that I am seriously considering blowing out and extending the rear wall of the listening room -- which is an exterior wall of my house on my deck -- by 4' to 5' to increase the length of the listening room from 24.5' to about 29'.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I can attest to the room and DRC .. small outlay on Dirac and a treated room elevated my system beyond belief ..
You need not go crazy on the room , barring some 1st reflection points and maybe a few bass traps, but you can go crazy re the DRC as to getting the whole spectrum right for your taste and expectations
There is a free trial of dirac.. try it...
At the worst , room , dirac etc will cost you $2000 and you will get $200 000 sound...

Rodney, I can attest to the powers of DRC. Previously listened to the Cessaro Liszts horns, which overenergised bass nodes in the room they were playing in. Recently revisited the same room that had some Modex acoustics panels, but more critically an Illusonic dsp unit, that even the tt was being played thru.
Bass MUCH better controlled, energy intact but the room almost totally taken out of the equation.
However I did detect a sort of dryness or truncation of harmonic development, which could have been the Class D Hypex Mola Mola amps (not sure they're for me), or the lp's going thru an AD-DA process.
So, functionally a complete success, but I'm not totally sold. I may have to take my Nat SETs to Purite to eliminate the amps as a source of this truncation.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hello, Ron and good evening to you sir. Purite Audio and esldude have hit on something that I think you need to pay close attention too. The room, the acoustics, the space play an extremely large part of the system. I will go one step further and mention incoming power, power cords and most definitely, interconnects and speaker cables.

Dear Tom, Thank you for your advice! On my Ron's Listening Room Renovations thread I go into detail about the electrical improvements. See http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...om-Treatment-and-Power-and-Turntable-Upgrades

For cables I either will stay with Transparent or switch to Basis Audio cables. I find the pricing of cables absurd and offensive, but cables certainly do affect the sound.

 

[spiritofmusic]

The really large improvements IMO are not to be found in power or cabling but in the acoustic of the room, specifically the interaction between loudspeaker and room.
Keith.

I'm getting this more now, Keith. Any objections to me bringing over my Nat SETs to sift out whether the slight "ultraprecision" sound in yr room was the Mola Molas or the Illusonic?

 

[Blue58]

The pursuit of perfection appears opposed to the pursuit of happiness. The further we travel down the road to perfection the more we become neurotic always chasing the ultimate speaker, amp or source and the closer we get the further away perfection stands, forever wanting more.

What's best forum is too rich for my blood.

Happiness is achievable once we understand what is important. Emotional connection with the artist. It's a state of mind.

The system is not as important as the room someone said. I'd prefer to say the audience (1-n) is the crucial factor.

Blue58

 

[Ron Resnick]

The really large improvements IMO are not to be found in power or cabling but in the acoustic of the room, specifically the interaction between loudspeaker and room.
Keith.

Yes, Keith, I completely agree. I have presently a pretty good forest of ASC Tube Traps and Tower Slims. Also I have engaged an acoustician to analyse the room and to recommend additional treatment.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I appreciate the efficacy of DRC. I can stomach DRC for subwoofer integration but I am not going to run a full-range, pure analog signal -- with not a single transistor in the signal path -- through DRC.

 

[bonzo75]

I appreciate the efficacy of DRC. I can stomach that for subwoofer integration but I am not going to run a full-range, pure analog signal -- with not a single transistor in the signal path -- through DRC.

Then you may never have a sound as good as Marty's even with components 10 times much more expensive. Quite possibly his 2k used Goldmund Studio through a DRC might outdo your SOTA Basis. I am not saying that's what for certain, but worth investigatimg

 

[Rodney Gold]

Its actually the listening position thats real important , you are taking measurements at that point , shift the mic a ft and all will change.
albeit we all talk about correcting the room , we are really only correcting sonics at the listening position .. the sound elsewhere in the room may be significantly worse.

I agree fully with the audience thing , its the sound the owner wants...and in fact any room correction porogram will have a tastes based user formulated target curve

I bought G1's cos they can do just about everything I want , magical imagery , seriously deep bass , easy to drive , they look stunning (debatable) , go seriously loud without artefacts , have immense scale etc etc. If I was limited to how loud i can play (lifelike levels) I would have bought something different

the limitations of your setup is the analog side of things , it has to require an AD/DA at some stage if you want to use digital room correction.. and the thought of that horrifies dyed in the wool analog guys... but you should try it before dismissing it out of hand.. the overall results might just be so good that the small losses are ignored...
im not too sure all that construction work you are planning to make your room 30ft will be effective , the bigger the room , the lower the nodes and low bass nodes are difficult to treat..like a +10db node at 25hz.. wont be tamed by bass traps
,

 

[spiritofmusic]

Its actually the listening position thats real important , you are taking measurements at that point , shift the mic a ft and all will change.
albeit we all talk about correcting the room , we are really only correcting sonics at the listening position .. the sound elsewhere in the room may be significantly worse.

I agree fully with the audience thing , its the sound the owner wants...and in fact any room correction porogram will have a tastes based user formulated target curve

I bought G1's cos they can do just about everything I want , magical imagery , seriously deep bass , easy to drive , they look stunning (debatable) , go seriously loud without artefacts , have immense scale etc etc. If I was limited to how loud i can play (lifelike levels) I would have bought something different

the limitations of your setup is the analog side of things , it has to require an AD/DA at some stage if you want to use digital room correction.. and the thought of that horrifies dyed in the wool analog guys... but you should try it before dismissing it out of hand.. the overall results might just be so good that the small losses are ignored...
im not too sure all that construction work you are planning to make your room 30ft will be effective , the bigger the room , the lower the nodes and low bass nodes are difficult to treat..like a +10db node at 25hz.. wont be tamed by bass traps
,

Rodney, as a died in the wool analog man, I've just had a VERY interesting experience w/DRC, which involved the tt going thru AD/DA. Mainly positive, w/some caveats. The q is, are those caveats critical?