This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

[PeterA]

Perhaps Apple could "repurpose" casinos to make iPhones and HDTV's?

A good start would be to manufacture goods in the countries that consume them. This is being done in the auto industry to some extent. That way manufacturing remains in locations where populations consume. There are all sorts of benefits to this approach. I am learning all about casinos these days by watching Osark. Boston just learned a lesson from opening a casino here. Not a good one.

I'm glad I bought my new iPhone just before they shut down the stores. This was in early March and I had already provisioned my house for my family's return. I asked the salesman if he was noticing an uptick in sales. He had no idea what I was suggesting.

 

[PeterA]

Tinka, a Dutch citizen who grew up traveling across the EU, and who now lives in America having visited numerous states in the USA, would agree with this states of the USA and EU countries analogy.

My mother, an East German immigrant, often asks me why America does things one way when Germany, or some other small country in Europe does things a different way. I told her the answer became clear to me when my brother and I drove a van around the US and Mexico in 1982. We are a collection, a federation, of different states, with different cultures, populations, climates, customs, with each being governed independently.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I hope I don't take down this thread, as the NO POLITICS! function hovers under Steve's and Ron's watchful eye.

But Boris has just released his first video statement from seclusion at Chequers.

And he for the first time ever is talking from the heart. He had a very close escape from serious ongoing debilitation (see Mik's tragic case), or even death, and fully realised that 24/7 Nhs nursing care brought him back from the brink. And it was evident from his body language that he knows he v nearly cashed in his chips.

We have some massive challenges in the UK. The last nation to lockdown (other than Sweden who still choose not to), and now on track to be the worst affected nation in Europe, w likely 40% of deaths and maybe 10% of the global total.

We're desperately hoping we start to get it right, because those figures are appaling, several days of 900-950 new dead, and c.5000-5500 new cases. Otoh, we haven't spiked in that time, whereas spikes had been happening twice a week. If we're gonna flatten the Covid curve, this is our flight approach pattern.

Me personally? I've really done some soul searching. My belief in a lot of things shattered. But critically, my belief in what matters...family, friends, community, nation, stronger than ever. And I've been forced to really reappraise attitudes I took for granted.

 

[bonzo75]

OMG

This is not something I would have ever guessed and if true this could bode serious for times ahead. It was said a few weeks ago that medical personnel are uncertain if permanent immunity is achieved as a result of being infected

It says "Kim also said patients had likely “relapsed” rather than been re-infected.". So with 91 out of 7000 recovered, and not yet clear whether they have relapsed, too early to say anything yet

 

[howiebrou]

I hope I don't take down this thread, as the NO POLITICS! function hovers under Steve's and Ron's watchful eye.

But Boris has just released his first video statement from seclusion at Chequers.

And he for the first time ever is talking from the heart. He had a very close escape from serious ongoing debilitation (see Mik's tragic case), or even death, and fully realised that 24/7 Nhs nursing care brought him back from the brink. And it was evident from his body language that he knows he v nearly cashed in his chips.

We have some massive challenges in the UK. The last nation to lockdown (other than Sweden who still choose not to), and now on track to be the worst affected nation in Europe, w likely 40% of deaths and maybe 10% of the global total.

We're desperately hoping we start to get it right, because those figures are appaling, several days of 900-950 new dead, and c.5000-5500 new cases. Otoh, we haven't spiked in that time, whereas spikes had been happening twice a week. If we're gonna flatten the Covid curve, this is our flight approach pattern.

Me personally? I've really done some soul searching. My belief in a lot of things shattered. But critically, my belief in what matters...family, friends, community, nation, stronger than ever. And I've been forced to really reappraise attitudes I took for granted.

I watched it too. I thought he was going to lose it. I'm glad he has had an epiphany.

 

[bonzo75]

Read in NYT that the median age of those tested in Germany is 46, in Italy is 63, possibly reflecting the difference in the death rates

 

[spiritofmusic]

Epiphany not needed. Just a strategy, resultant organisation, and the message. Whether being at death's door will more likely lead to this, or at least increase the urgency, you'd hope. Boris needs recuperation now. Plenty of time to think.

 

[rbbert]

OMG

This is not something I would have ever guessed and if true this could bode serious for times ahead. It was said a few weeks ago that medical personnel are uncertain if permanent immunity is achieved as a result of being infected

Go ahead and read Dr. Frieden's interview; he alludes to this (one of the still unknowns) and of course this information is essential for a vaccine to be developed

 

[Steve williams]

Go ahead and read Dr. Frieden's interview; he alludes to this (one of the still unknowns) and of course this information is essential for a vaccine to be developed

Precisely what I was getting at

 

[Barry2013]

Jeff,
Xenophobia is not exclusively American. Even though Italians, like you demonstrated, where at the receiving end of such prejudice, they are also well known to have manifested such prejudices against others, when they come to Italy.
I just read the other day that produce is expected to rot in the italian fields, as most of the "guest workers" from Eastern Europe, in Italy, returned to their countries on the outset of the Corona pandemic. And of course, not enough italians won't/can't do their job.

We are facing exactly the same problem here in the Uk

 

[Barry2013]

Precisely what I was getting at

The team at the University of Oxford that has been working on a vaccine are now saying that they are 80% certain that it will work. Human trials in the next two weeks and hopes it can be used in September 2020.
Fingers crossed!

 

[Al M.]

A good start would be to manufacture goods in the countries that consume them. This is being done in the auto industry to some extent. That way manufacturing remains in locations where populations consume. There are all sorts of benefits to this approach.

That depends on the type of goods that are made. Our biotech company makes products for research. Making these specialist products all in the US makes the most sense, even though we export them all over the world. Also, even though China is a major market for us, it would actually be dangerous to shift some production there, because of intellectual property theft.

Sure, these are not "consumer goods", so the rules are not the same.

 

[PeterA]

Al, there are benefits to being self-reliant. And there are also benefits to exporting goods to other countries. I am mostly talking about larger consumer goods sold in large quantities. One benefit is for the environment, shipping costs, pollution, energy savings, import duties, and others.

There’s a lot of security knowing that we produce a lot of food here in our country. I would like to see the production of medicines shifted back to the US for national security reasons.

I think these are the kinds of things that will be re-examined after this crisis.

 

[bonzo75]

The team at the University of Oxford that has been working on a vaccine are now saying that they are 80% certain that it will work. Human trials in the next two weeks and hopes it can be used in September 2020.
Fingers crossed!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...-as-september-according-to-scientist-11971804

 

[andromedaaudio]

In russia they are also working on a vaccine , they also aim at sept.
In holland they aim at early 2021.
https://www.rt.com/russia/485578-russia-coronavirus-vaccine-human-testing/


Has a lot to do with different testing regulations

 

[PeterA]

In russia they are also working on a vaccine , they also aim at sept.
In holland they aim at early 2021.
https://www.rt.com/russia/485578-russia-coronavirus-vaccine-human-testing/


Has a lot to do with different testing regulations

If curves remain fairly flat and hospitals can handle the case load, we might stick to these schedules. If however, things get much worse, and we see a huge spike in global or national death rates, sustained over time, these schedules may be accelerated. That is just a guess. A global shut down is doing real damage which can be sustained for a period, but not forever. The medical community may vehemently disagree with me.

 

[Steve williams]

The medical community may vehemently disagree with me.

I see it as a very fine line between opening the country and kick starting the economy vs staying shut for a while longer as I believe that once the country is opened there will be another spike in cases, so much so that I am betting social distancing and self quarantine will be maintained by many if not most

"Darned if you do and darned if you don't"

 

[Al M.]

I see it as a very fine line between opening the country and kick starting the economy vs staying shut for a while longer as I believe that once the country is opened there will be another spike in cases, so much so that I am betting social distancing and self quarantine will be maintained by many if not most

"Darned if you do and darned if you don't"

Yes, you can't have a fully functioning economy as long as people are afraid of dying while participating in it.

Reopening the country on a fixed time table, and hoping that this is it, is wishful thinking.

 

[Folsom]

Why crazy, as long as the right of people to shoot each other is observed, it is all fine. 6 is quite a small number, if not for social distancing, US has been hitting a much higher number in group shootings almost every month

What you're saying is all bullshit. You don't seem to know the laws, or the statistics. Even worse do we need to bring this topic up? Too political.

People ask and want so much from the country but when they are asked to make the tiniest sacrifice sitting their asses at home for just one month it becomes the unbearable thing to do. Is this cultural or something else Peter?

Kind regards,
Tang

This isn't entirely correct. People in the United States are very willingly social distancing. But it's because they were asked. When you order them to do it they're going to tell you to fuck off. There are outliers who aren't doing it, but that will be true anywhere. We have more outliers than in some countries because we're way bigger. Also consider we have the military on planet earth and it's 100% volunteer to join. What you're missing is that people like to complain whether or not it means much - it is certainly a cultural thing that has gained traction since the social pressure for everything else positive has been put down. And the more senior someone is, the more entitled - self anointed - they become to complain. It's been that way for many generations.

But it's true that most people on this forum are positioned well enough that this isn't that big of a deal to them unless they get sick. That isn't necessarily true for everyone posting, as not everyone wants to be a cry baby.

Living in the Western world we have this notion of having rights and sense of entitlement that nobody can tell me what to do. BUT, in Asian people act differently and will listen to the recommendations of their governments. Wearing mask has been going on for years there.

As a traveler in Asian countries , you land at their airport, have an app installed on your phone so you can be tracked. Violate this and there are real consequences. Would love to have this here so I could avoid any potential contact.

Ok but Asia isn't some sort of automatic "everything is better". China is also the place where people will smoke cigarettes in elevators with your infant child in them - because they believe the government that tells them smoking is healthy.

My phone I paid money for, get your hands off it.

OMG

This is not something I would have ever guessed and if true this could bode serious for times ahead. It was said a few weeks ago that medical personnel are uncertain if permanent immunity is achieved as a result of being infected

I don't know that this is worth freaking out over just yet - or ever. They said themselves the test may not be correct. The body at that point has a lot of house cleaning to do. Also they mentioned relapse, which why not? There is nothing unusual about the body resting to fight again after exhaustion - there are plenty of diseases with ebb and flow that people already have.

 

[Al Stewart]

What seems to get lost in many discussions on "opening the economy" is that you can't force people into economic transactions. You can't force them to go the movies or to restaurants or demand they enter into contracts for major purchases. You can hang out a big "Open for Business" sign, that doesn't mean you are going to attract customers willing to spend the cash they have on hand or to incur debt to obtain a non-essential good or service.