TriodeFet vs. SET? What are the Sonic Differences?

[caesar]

What are the Sonic Differences between TriodeFet vs. SET?

And what are the technical differences?

Aries Cerat is by far the most impressive brand I've heard come onto the market in the last 10 years or so. Seems like they are moving away from SET and going with TriodeFet.

Thanks in advance

 

[Atmasphere]

The TriodeFET appears to be a proprietary device. There's very little information about it on their website. So no way to know what the technical differences might be.

There is a transistor called a Static Induction Transistor (SIT; also known as VFET) which could be convinced to produce linearity curves as seen on their website. SITs have even have a soft clipping characteristic. They may have someone producing it locally; Nelson Pass did the same thing a few years back.

They may be getting tired of really high distortion, unavoidable with SETs unless you have really efficient speakers, but that's obviously speculation on my part.

 

[Synaxis]

What are the Sonic Differences between TriodeFet vs. SET?

And what are the technical differences?

Aries Cerat is by far the most impressive brand I've heard come onto the market in the last 10 years or so. Seems like they are moving away from SET and going with TriodeFet.

Thanks in advance

I can't speak to the technical differences.

Having heard them both back to back there is a sound difference with neither being right or wrong. It's personal preference.

I am personally a big fan of SET's.

Edited to add: I have Manley mono blocks here that allow me to switch between SE and PP. I prefer the SE.

 

[Verdier]

I can't speak to the technical differences.

Having heard them both back to back there is a sound difference with neither being right or wrong. It's personal preference.

Although I own an Ianus Essentia, I have not yet had the opportunity to listen to an SE Triode in a comparable environment. Hence my request:

Please describe the sonic differences. Please also state which speakers and which preamp you used to listen to both devices. Thank you very much!

 

[morricab]

The details of the technical aspects are not disclosed and so what I know is what has been told to me by Stavros from Aries Cerat.

It is a small signal triode connected with a MOSFET to operate as a hybrid single element. I do not know what this circuit looks like and how they are connected together.

The result is a single amplification element that is a compound element with triode and FET and therefore the name TriodeFet. It is pure class A without feedback and is a single ended and single stage amplifier, meaning it has sufficient gain to operate as an integrated amp without preamp. That said, I drive my Protos with an Incito preamp, which allows better matching with my sources.

I have owned both the Aries Cerat Genus and now the Aries Cerat Protos. The Genus is a SET and the Protos a TriodeFET. Both sound amazing. The TriodeFet is perhaps bit less of that DHT thing, which some people might miss. Otherwise, they sound quite similar in terms of weight, tonality, transparency etc. Bass is tighter, and honestly a bit more SS than the Genus.

 

[Verdier]

TriodeFet is perhaps bit less of that DHT thing

What exactly do you mean by that? How does it affect the sound?

 

[Ramsta]

I would also like to know what the biggest difference between GENUS vs PROTOS
thank

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

The details of the technical aspects are not disclosed and so what I know is what has been told to me by Stavros from Aries Cerat.

It is a small signal triode connected with a MOSFET to operate as a hybrid single element. I do not know what this circuit looks like and how they are connected together.

The result is a single amplification element that is a compound element with triode and FET and therefore the name TriodeFet. It is pure class A without feedback and is a single ended and single stage amplifier, meaning it has sufficient gain to operate as an integrated amp without preamp. That said, I drive my Protos with an Incito preamp, which allows better matching with my sources.

I have owned both the Aries Cerat Genus and now the Aries Cerat Protos. The Genus is a SET and the Protos a TriodeFET. Both sound amazing. The TriodeFet is perhaps bit less of that DHT thing, which some people might miss. Otherwise, they sound quite similar in terms of weight, tonality, transparency etc. Bass is tighter, and honestly a bit more SS than the Genus.

sounds like about the same difference I experienced when I bought a pair of First Watt SIT-1 monos to compare to my 300B SETs.....
SIT-1 were the closest to 300B so far, but lacked the harmonic finesse...otherwise silent, clean, fast and musical

 

[Ramsta]

I expect from PROTOS the sophistication of the 300B and solid bass of a transistor solution
Will it be so or is it just a dream???))
It will not be closer to it with GENUS?

 

[morricab]

sounds like about the same difference I experienced when I bought a pair of First Watt SIT-1 monos to compare to my 300B SETs.....
SIT-1 were the closest to 300B so far, but lacked the harmonic finesse...otherwise silent, clean, fast and musical

No, it still sounds more like a tube amp than a single ended transistor amp. It is closer to 90% SET and 10% SIT...

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

then I might be able to live with it......

 

[Aries Cerat]

If i might pitch in, though i am a bit biased (pun indented).
The TriodeFet amps ,in my ears , have more harmonics than their SET counterparts , and if compared at least to their respecting counterparts(ex Protos to Genus, Essentia to Concero, Quint to higher Concero models), i find the TF to have more of the strengths that the SET are famous for, flow, presence, timbre and sense of "space".

YMMV but judging by the number of users switching from classic tube to TF, i think many would agree.

This project started back in 2013 and resumed years later, by initially trying to have close to SET sound without the hassle of big bottles. I was surprised and pleased to see the tech actually surpassing the classic tube circuits in performance, so we had our cake, and eat it too in a sense.

Cheers
S

 

[Ramsta]

As I understand the Protos is the winner ...sweetspot..

 

[morricab]

then I might be able to live with it......

You should at least give one a try...

 

[tedwoods]

Although I realise the term triode-fet points to Aries-Cerat (and directly related Aries-Cerat technology), other "similar" technologies, a.k.a. not "distinctly hybrid", as in where some sort of preamp tube/-s is used to drive a transistor or fet based output stage (although this is a difficult, in its own right, distinction to make) do exist under different terminology. For example:
1. EHT (E/intakt H/ybrid T/riode) by THÖRESS : http://www.thoeress.com/en/eht-integrated-amplifier/ and http://www.thoeress.com/en/eht-power-amplifier/
2. NeoHybrid by Silvercore: https://silvercore.de/amps-template/
3. NeoHyb by Silbatone : http://www.silbatoneacoustics.com/btstrap/products.html .
If I recall correctly Silbatone was the first design I've seen, where an "output" triode was used in conjunction with transistors.
Essentially, all or most of these designs seem to claim that the voltage part of the amplification stages is delegated to tubes while the current one to transistors.
I personally have auditioned only the THÖRESS integrated, which I thought sounded more like a superb -albeit "typical"- tube amp, rather than a hybrid one.
The Silbatone I have heard only at shows: the systems there all sounded great, but were so wildly different from mine that no valid comparison could possibly be made.

 

[morricab]

Although I realise the term triode-fet points to Aries-Cerat (and directly related Aries-Cerat technology), other "similar" technologies, a.k.a. not "distinctly hybrid", as in where some sort of preamp tube/-s is used to drive a transistor or fet based output stage (although this is a difficult, in its own right, distinction to make) do exist under different terminology. For example:
1. EHT (E/intakt H/ybrid T/riode) by THÖRESS : http://www.thoeress.com/en/eht-integrated-amplifier/ and http://www.thoeress.com/en/eht-power-amplifier/
2. NeoHybrid by Silvercore: https://silvercore.de/amps-template/
3. NeoHyb by Silbatone : http://www.silbatoneacoustics.com/btstrap/products.html .
If I recall correctly Silbatone was the first design I've seen, where an "output" triode was used in conjunction with transistors.
Essentially, all or most of these designs seem to claim that the voltage part of the amplification stages is delegated to tubes while the current one to transistors.
I personally have auditioned only the THÖRESS integrated, which I thought sounded more like a superb albeit "typical" tube amp rather than a hybrid one.
The Silbatone I have heard only at shows: the systems there all sounded great, but where so wildly different from mine that no valid comparison could possibly be made.

The Thoress is a two stage single ended hybrid with a tube preamp/driver and a single ended MOSFET output. This is different than the AC tech. It is similar to what NAT was doing with its Symbiosis SE integrated amp. There is a current NAT amp that claims to be a single compound element single stage amp, not sure how that differs from the AC tech but it sounds more similar than the Thoress.

The Neohybrid from Silbatone and silvercore are essentially the same and not sure, again, how that differs except that I think there is still a preamp stage ahead of the "hybrid" element.

 

[Atmasphere]

Regardless of how the tube and MOSFET are implemented, this is a good example of a hybrid technology. Since their website claims

Our technology is neither a hybrid topology (in the usual sense of a tube-driving-solid state stage type), nor a solid state-driving-tube kind of stage.

it was reasonable to think that a proprietary device was used. But apparently its a hybrid.

This project started back in 2013 and resumed years later, by initially trying to have close to SET sound without the hassle of big bottles. I was surprised and pleased to see the tech actually surpassing the classic tube circuits in performance,

I totally get that! I'm of the opinion the days of big bottle amps are numbered at this point. Why deal with the heat and hassle if you can get the same or better sound without it?

 

[Audiohertz2]

The Thoress is a two stage single ended hybrid with a tube preamp/driver and a single ended MOSFET output. This is different than the AC tech. It is similar to what NAT was doing with its Symbiosis SE integrated amp. There is a current NAT amp that claims to be a single compound element single stage amp, not sure how that differs from the AC tech but it sounds more similar than the Thoress.

The Neohybrid from Silbatone and silvercore are essentially the same and not sure, again, how that differs except that I think there is still a preamp stage ahead of the "hybrid" element.

A low distortion SS amp not clipping will take on the sound of it’s signal fed pre-amp.

SET sound in , SET sound out .....

 

[Atmasphere]

A low distortion SS amp not clipping will take on the sound of it’s signal fed pre-amp.

SET sound in , SET sound out .....

Actually preamp sound in, SET sound out...

 

[morricab]

A low distortion SS amp not clipping will take on the sound of it’s signal fed pre-amp.

SET sound in , SET sound out .....

And yet, there are plenty of examples of low distortion (at least with typical measurements) amps out there that all sound different from each other…and mostly pretty crap.

I think you are now the Julian Hirsch of the WBF.