van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru

[PeterA]

Dear friend: that 0.75mv cartridge output means " mediocre/average " quality level performance no matters what. I already posted in other threads that the best LOMC cartridges are the ones with lower output levels because the signal " sees " less coild wire that inside the cartridge is extremely important issue: more wire means losted signal information, signal quality degradation.

The best Colibri cartridges are the ones at 0.22mv and you can ask VDH that make one for you and difference for the better is like nigth and day. You have the phono stage gain to handle it.

Sorry but 0.75mv has no sense for that kind of price I suppose you paid for.

I read this in the Best Phono Stage thread, but it is really a post about the vdH Colibri Grand Cru. I have no idea why it was posted there and not here in this dedicated thread to this cartridge.

To refer to an extremely well respected cartridge builder’s supreme achievement as “mediocre/average"..."no matter what" is really quite incredible. Mr. van den Hul wrote me expressing his opinion that he is still learning his art, after so many years, and that he feels this new flagship cartridge is his best effort to date. He specifically referred to the increased level of information that it extracts from the grooves. He is a true inspiration for all of us.

The "no matter what" qualifier is also interesting because that would imply that lower output cartridges would always sound better regardless of other factors, conditions, and contexts. I have a lower output vdH cartridge, the Colibri XPP at 0.4 MV, as well as two other cartridges with 0.45 mV and 0.5 mV outputs, none of which sound better in general or retrieve more information from the grooves as my two Grand Crus with 0.75 mV outputs. So, rather than "no matter what", there must be "something else" at play here.

One can agree or disagree about the performance and sonic characteristics o fvdH cartridges, but as Raúl continues to find faults with both the SME 3012R tonearm and the vdH Grand Cru cartridges and post them now in two different threads on the forum, I will continue to enjoy listening to this wonderful combination in my system hearing things I've never heard before from my vinyl collection.

 

[bazelio]

I read this in the Best Phono Stage thread ...
The "no matter what" qualifier is also interesting because that would imply that lower output cartridges would always sound better regardless of other factors, conditions, and contexts.

Peter, not so. Raul's statement doesn't imply that the converse is also true. The statement is simply that more windings are always deleterious to what would otherwise be possible, all things being equal. It's obviously easy to make a crappy LOMC when things are unequal.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, not so. Raul's statement doesn't imply that the converse is also true. The statement is simply that more windings are always deleterious to what would otherwise be possible, all things being equal. It's obviously easy to make a crappy LOMC when things are unequal.

Thanks Brian. The question remains why Mr. vdH would then not simply give his flagship an output of 0.22 mV as Raul suggests. Perhaps he will do that next year.

 

[bazelio]

Parts availability would be my guess #1. Only he knows, though. Interestingly though, as memory serves, David's #1 preferred VDH cart is in fact the older low output version.

 

[silviajulieta]

is really quite incredible

Dear friend: I'm the first admirer of Dr. AJ vandenHul. I already posted here I owned and own several of his cartridges. So your statement is not exactly the way you are thinking of my posts.

Sorry, that I gave you that impression that's way far away from there.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.

 

[silviajulieta]

The statement is simply that more windings are always deleterious to what would otherwise be possible,

Dear friend: rigth, that's the correct interpretation to my bad englisk. Thank's for that.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.

 

[Lagonda]

Dear friend: I'm the first admirer of Dr. AJ vandenHul. I already posted here I owned and own several of his cartridges. So your statement is not exactly the way you are thinking of my posts.

Sorry, that I gave you that impression that's way far away from there.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.

Dear honorable exceptional friend, i am not as knowledgeable when it comes to cartridges as you or many of the gentlemen on this forum are, so please excuse me if i talk nonsense. My understanding is that the low output cartridges primarily exel because of the low mass (few coil windings) attached to the cantilever, not so much that there is a loss of information inside the higher amount of coil windings on higher output (more coil windings) version. Van Den Hull is on his latest series of cartridges ( Master Signature and grand Cru) using a powerful magnet setup that is able to get a higher signal out of a low amount of coil windings, you are getting high output without the cost of heavy mass. Of course you will get even lower mass with fewer coil winding, but apparently there is little difference in the sound of the 1,1mv and the 0,75 or 0,5 mv versions. How do you like the sound of the Ortofon MC 2000 cartridge ? I owned the MC 3000 wich is 0,1 mv and found it very precise but also a little boring, almost like digital. My BenzMicro TR with the same low output is much more exiting.

 

[silviajulieta]

because of the low mass (few coil windings) attached to the cantilever, not so much that there is a loss of information inside the higher amount of coil windings on higher output (more coil windings) version

Dear friend: less coil wire windings means too what you stated: lower cartridge moving system mass that helps a lot for the cartridge improves is tracking levels and this means lower possibilities to lost recorded information in those grooves and this means better quality level performance. A better tracking abilities in any cartridge means that even at the inner grooves the quality level performance can be almost the same as in the middle LP surface grooves, so really nice to have it.

But, number of coil windings always means that lower wire winding in the coil better overall quality sound reproduction levels.

The Strad use " The improved generator mechanism circuit in the Colibri Stradivarius consists of Samarium-Cobalt magnets "" and the 0.38mv version comes with 23 ohms internal resistance.

Even that the Cru can use neodynium magnets ( the more powerfull. ) in combination with samarium cobalt 0.75mv can't be achieved with the winding coils need it for the Colibri 0.22mv .

Could be ? Let me tell you that I want it that the Master him self can tell us or at least in his site because this must be in a patent and could be the greattest achievement in the cartridge history, nothing less.

Btw, the MC2000 is a champ and if you have the rigth SS phono stage then you need to listen it. Totally different design to the 3000 that I owned and that's is really boring as you stated. The 3000MK2 is an improvement about.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

 

[Lagonda]

Dear friend: less coil wire windings means too what you stated: lower cartridge moving system mass that helps a lot for the cartridge improves is tracking levels and this means lower possibilities to lost recorded information in those grooves and this means better quality level performance. A better tracking abilities in any cartridge means that even at the inner grooves the quality level performance can be almost the same as in the middle LP surface grooves, so really nice to have it.

But, number of coil windings always means that lower wire winding in the coil better overall quality sound reproduction levels.

The Strad use " The improved generator mechanism circuit in the Colibri Stradivarius consists of Samarium-Cobalt magnets "" and the 0.38mv version comes with 23 ohms internal resistance.

Even that the Cru can use neodynium magnets ( the more powerfull. ) in combination with samarium cobalt 0.75mv can't be achieved with the winding coils need it for the Colibri 0.22mv .

Could be ? Let me tell you that I want it that the Master him self can tell us or at least in his site.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

The Master Signature and Grand Cru are not even on his product list. We got the first indication of these new powerful magnet when some members where having problems with Master Sigs being attracted to Low Iron turntable platters that normally did not have magnetic issue, one member here had a problem with unstable movement of the cartridge. The Master Signature was being attracted to the 2 metal bolts holding down the copper top platter on his turntable

 

[silviajulieta]

The Master Signature and Grand Cru are not even on his product list. We got the first indication of these new powerful magnet when some members where having problems with Master Sigs being attracted to Low Iron turntable platters that normally did not have magnetic issue, one member here had a problem with unstable movement of the cartridge. The Master Signature was being attracted to the 2 metal bolts holding down the copper top platter on his turntable

Dear friend: that MC2000 atracted everything around 0.1mm ( low iron metal. ), so what you said is no surprise for me, I ruined my first MC2000 because of that. I remember that I owned and still own ( the rigth one. ) 3-4 different Shure tracking for ce metal gauge and many of them worked just fine but with the lower output cartridges.

Ortofon in the MC2000 not only gives you an aluminum/non-magnetic scredriver but non-magnetic screws and bolts too.

Btw, the MC2000 is not only way demanding about a very high gain and very low noise phono stage but way demanding on the tonearm where you will mount it because the MC2000 measured compliance is over 30cu and the cartridge weigths 11g., not a healthy combination for any tonearm specially if the tonearm is not very well damped.

Do you need a true laboratory test for your system or any system? yes? then the MC2000 is that true laboratory.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

 

[PeterA]

Parts availability would be my guess #1. Only he knows, though. Interestingly though, as memory serves, David's #1 preferred VDH cart is in fact the older low output version.

Brian what parts would be involved in simply winding less gold wire around the coil’s? If one less winding is better that would seem to be a pretty easy thing to do when one is building the cartridge.

Davids preference for a lower output might well have to do with the phono stage and preamplifier gain and volume adjustability. I’m not sure about this but it that may well be one factor in his preference.

 

[bazelio]

Peter, I'll refrain from making assumptions about the factors involved in achieving a desired sound at lower output other than to say I'd suspect there is more to it than what you suggest.

 

[brencho]

We should ask David but my memory is he loves the 1.1mV cart and started requesting lower output given his system (efficient horns with lamm pre and amps). Just throwing that out there. I don’t judge a cart by its output.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, I'll refrain from making assumptions about the factors involved in achieving a desired sound at lower output other than to say I'd suspect there is more to it than what you suggest.

Brian, I suspect the same which is why I did not refer to “all things being equal”. You did that. I presume there is much more to it than what Raul suggests. People describe Mr. van den Hul as both artist and scientist.

 

[howiebrou]

For what it's worth, my GC is 0.38mV and my MSS is 0.40mV.

 

[bazelio]

Brian, I suspect the same which is why I did not refer to “all things being equal”. You did that. I presume there is much more to it than what Raul suggests. People describe Mr. van den Hul as both artist and scientist.

Oh that's physical phenomenon and Raul's point is valid. But the topic you raised of why AJ doesn't produce low output carts anymore is a different subject with likely numerous variables.

 

[bazelio]

For what it's worth, my GC is 0.38mV and my MSS is 0.40mV.

Special request?

 

[howiebrou]

Special request?

no, just how they came.

 

[bazelio]

Could you post picture of the 0.38mV GC? I'm curious to see the magnet size and other details.

 

[howiebrou]

Could you post picture of the 0.38mV GC? I'm curious to see the magnet size and other details.