Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[Muser]

Marc:

I've participated over 20+ years on a number of fora and reviewed gear during that time. I am interested, or was interested in the audio journey to satisfaction or satiation. I have a closet full of tweaks that made a difference but which I no longer deploy. My list of bought and sold gear is fairly long and catholic. I have heard Zu speakers on a number of occasions, and like Sean Casey and some of his taste in music. I can appreciate a number of different things, even if I prefer some more than others. No, my list is not as long as some others here, but long enough and expensive enough that I sometimes think I've been a fool. A fitfully happy one, too!

My system is "worse" than a number of members here, but I pay for it, accommodate its location and cost in my life, not theirs. Though I am aware of the gap between "bliss," what I have and what I know is available, I've paused my pursuit. I may undertake the pursuit further or commence a new and different one. I'm not suggesting you should or need to pause yours.

I had a system for six years that was musical but not the last word on an attribute a friend liked/needed. I enjoyed it very much without a thought of upgrading, until I heard the criticism. I could hear what he was hearing, but to which I had previously been oblivious. I "upgraded" and chased "perfection" and excellence. If I'm fair, I'll also say I chased what my friend found valuable, but which had been invisible to me. My current system is unquestionably better than the one I had for six years, but both provided enjoyment. I suppose the purpose of my post here was to remind you that you are the arbiter. And, to share the experience and "realization" I've had that change is never "better on all fronts" but a mix of some better, maybe even MUCH BETTER, but it also includes some unwelcome changes. It's not always upward and onward.

I hope you find a place to stand or to continue your journey with your different bedfellows.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Muser, wise words.
I found it fascinating that even the revered Mike Lavigne had to endure comment after comment, and suggestion after suggestion, when he acquired his Lamms. Additionally many views on active isolation under his proposed AS2000 tt.
Despite varying levels of irritation from him, he deflected these all w good grace, and they had no bearing on his decisions.
Indeed Mike truly know his own mind and his own gear, and advice for him is not really needed.

Me? I'm nowhere at his level, but I might be not far away in terms of actual satisfaction.
However, I'm obviously a character who is pretty honest and upfront online, and the results are people's two cents.

 

[cjfrbw]

Summary execution of bitchy listeners during and after the audiophile tea ceremonies would go a long way towards curing audiophilia nervosa.

"I'm just going to have to shoot you, now!"

 

[spiritofmusic]

That would be TOO merciful, CJ.

 

[bonzo75]

That would be TOO merciful, CJ.

Yeah, make them sit for a few more hours because the system will start sounding better

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, my tubes do have to warm up.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, re that think to the PSI AVAA active bass trap, I did use a variation of this unit in my old room, the Spatial Audio Anti-Wave machine, and it was pretty useful.

I suspect I'd need 4-6 of these AVAA units to properly deal w bass nodes and standing waves in my room here, and there are a few places I could get audition units.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'll do the measuring first.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Well, my tubes do have to warm up.

You sound like my missus

 

[Lagonda]

Yeah, make them sit for a few more hours because the system will start sounding better

LOL, Ked you are truly terrible today !

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked terrible today? Only today? Don't you mean always?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I swear this hobby is totally crazy.

I've been struggling a little to dial in my cdp, after 6 months of 100% immersion into vinyl.

Now, the cdp 6 months earlier had been on a trial Stacore, and was really singing, so an immediate deficit w the cdp now being sans Stacore.

And going w my final set of Sablon Reserva Elites pwr cords to the Zu subs to complete the Sablon loom seemed to tip the tonal balance twds being much too full and warm.

However chatting w Mark of Sablon, he was confident that these Elites were highlighting or revealing issues elsewhere impeding my sound being fully satisfying.

However, as I continued to fine tune my analog, I've also made these other recent changes I'll chat about below, that finally have locked in my digital, and now my analog and cdp are equally convincing in their own way.

In summary, the more textured and dense sound these final Sablon Elites pwr cords have brought, have allowed me to really take my Zu subs involvement down as subtly as you can get (any more subtle would involve me switching them off LOL). I'm truly (for the first time in a decade) listening to the Zu main drivers, w the subs in v subtle supporting role only. And this means that the effects of the whole Sablon cables loom are fully realised, tonal and timbral accuracy, natural warmth and air, being Sablon strong points.

Allied to this, running the Townshend supertweeters has been a revelation, maxxing air and shimmer in the 7-12kHz region, and obv beyond 20Hz. That 7-12k region is esp interesting for me because the Zu main full range drivers run uninterrupted all the way to 12kHz, and if there is a Zu weakness it's slight terseness in the 7-12k region where most other spkrs cross from mid drivers to tweeters. I think the supertweeters are adding a little bit of air, clarity and sweetness in this region, with no audible compromise in the exemplary Zu tonal density and shove.

Last, but not least, are the bespoke Lead footers that I'm using in place of the Zu stock steel spikes.
Instead of insubstantial pieces of metal, I've now got chunky 1" diameter x 0.75" high Lead cylinders continuous w the threads that screw into the Zu heavy base plates.

These chunky footers seem to be better in isolating both main spkrs and subs, maybe the Lead used has a superior vibration isolation quality, maybe bigger mass and surface area/volume/weight are all advantages. Whatever, there is greater weight of sound, w no compromise of all the other impvts I've highlighted earlier in this post.

And as of today, I've hit a level of sound where for the first time ever in over two decades evolving, my digital and analog are both performing optimally, no apparent weakness in either sound, both totally immersive in their own individual ways.

This is a watershed moment for me, I've always either had my digital having the (marginal) overall upper hand over my analog (in the past when my analog was poorly set up), or vice versa (the last 6 months where my cdp was frustratingly loose and wooly).

To have both sources ticking over nicely is rewarding me for sticking to my guns and sweating the small (and not so small) details.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Marc, are you sure those super-tweeters are doing anything at 7 kHz to 12 kHz? I thought the whole point of super-tweeters is that they start playing at about 18 kHz.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Barry has informed me there is a graph showing output from 6k.

Whatever, they're totally invaluable now, and are not leaving. Ron, I have you to thank for highlighting Phil's use of them on his Druids.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am delighted to have been been of service!

 

[Blue58]

I swear this hobby is totally crazy.

I've been struggling a little to dial in my cdp, after 6 months of 100% immersion into vinyl.

Now, the cdp 6 months earlier had been on a trial Stacore, and was really singing, so an immediate deficit w the cdp now being sans Stacore.

And going w my final set of Sablon Reserva Elites pwr cords to the Zu subs to complete the Sablon loom seemed to tip the tonal balance twds being much too full and warm.

However chatting w Mark of Sablon, he was confident that these Elites were highlighting or revealing issues elsewhere impeding my sound being fully satisfying.

However, as I continued to fine tune my analog, I've also made these other recent changes I'll chat about below, that finally have locked in my digital, and now my analog and cdp are equally convincing in their own way.

In summary, the more textured and dense sound these final Sablon Elites pwr cords have brought, have allowed me to really take my Zu subs involvement down as subtly as you can get (any more subtle would involve me switching them off LOL). I'm truly (for the first time in a decade) listening to the Zu main drivers, w the subs in v subtle supporting role only. And this means that the effects of the whole Sablon cables loom are fully realised, tonal and timbral accuracy, natural warmth and air, being Sablon strong points.

Allied to this, running the Townshend supertweeters has been a revelation, maxxing air and shimmer in the 7-12kHz region, and obv beyond 20Hz. That 7-12k region is esp interesting for me because the Zu main full range drivers run uninterrupted all the way to 12kHz, and if there is a Zu weakness it's slight terseness in the 7-12k region where most other spkrs cross from mid drivers to tweeters. I think the supertweeters are adding a little bit of air, clarity and sweetness in this region, with no audible compromise in the exemplary Zu tonal density and shove.

Last, but not least, are the bespoke Lead footers that I'm using in place of the Zu stock steel spikes.
Instead of insubstantial pieces of metal, I've now got chunky 1" diameter x 0.75" high Lead cylinders continuous w the threads that screw into the Zu heavy base plates.

These chunky footers seem to be better in isolating both main spkrs and subs, maybe the Lead used has a superior vibration isolation quality, maybe bigger mass and surface area/volume/weight are all advantages. Whatever, there is greater weight of sound, w no compromise of all the other impvts I've highlighted earlier in this post.

And as of today, I've hit a level of sound where for the first time ever in over two decades evolving, my digital and analog are both performing optimally, no apparent weakness in either sound, both totally immersive in their own individual ways.

This is a watershed moment for me, I've always either had my digital having the (marginal) overall upper hand over my analog (in the past when my analog was poorly set up), or vice versa (the last 6 months where my cdp was frustratingly loose and wooly).

To have both sources ticking over nicely is rewarding me for sticking to my guns and sweating the small (and not so small) details.

Honesty time coming up, you have been warned.

Turning the subs down to almost nothing robs most of your music of 'foundation'. From experience, solving the bass quality, not quantity as you are doing, improves all frequencies above, most noticeable on vocal performance.

I strongly suspect that the super tweeters are just adding higher frequencies (noise?), remember you're using those 211 tubes which are not the most clear sounding power tubes. A similar effect could be produced using a graphic equaliser. Your CD player has nothing over 20K in any case.

The use of lead for isolation feet is imo a very strange concept. Do they absorb vibration due to their loosely held crystal structure or do they reflect vibration back into the speakers? Isn't the increase in weight of sound just compensating for the decrease in volume you applied to the subs?

You are now talking of AVAA acoustic devices for your perfect room.

How many more sticking plasters can you add to your system to elevate it still further. It would be very interesting to contemplate the system you could have if funds were diverted into simply components and not accessories.

OK, harsh words perhaps but I've not been able to get through to you during our listening sessions.

Still friends?

 

[bonzo75]

Honesty time coming up, you have been warned.

Turning the subs down to almost nothing robs most of your music of 'foundation'. From experience, solving the bass quality, not quantity as you are doing, improves all frequencies above, most noticeable on vocal performance.

I strongly suspect that the super tweeters are just adding higher frequencies (noise?), remember you're using those 211 tubes which are not the most clear sounding power tubes. A similar effect could be produced using a graphic equaliser. Your CD player has nothing over 20K in any case.

The use of lead for isolation feet is imo a very strange concept. Do they absorb vibration due to their loosely held crystal structure or do they reflect vibration back into the speakers? Isn't the increase in weight of sound just compensating for the decrease in volume you applied to the subs?

You are now talking of AVAA acoustic devices for your perfect room.

How many more sticking plasters can you add to your system to elevate it still further. It would be very interesting to contemplate the system you could have if funds were diverted into simply components and not accessories.

OK, harsh words perhaps but I've not been able to get through to you during our listening sessions.

Still friends?

+1000. the last three paras I communicated to him privately a few years ago, should have done so on the forum. The answer then might have changed to yes

 

[spiritofmusic]

Barry, friends of course. I always ask for frank opinions, so I'm happy to take those. Ked, same here.

There is always the danger that tweaking out further can lead to more and more interconnecting Möbius Loops, I'm fully aware of that. And I do ask myself many times if I'm not guilty of adding sticking plasters to cover up issues.

What doesn't help here is the very nature of social media, by definition I have to slightly exaggerate or highlight positives and negatives to enhance a point.

By no means am I in thrall to any more major changes. This includes acoustic panels, AVAA units etc, new components. My room is good out of the box, indeed many things about it that could have been a negative seem to have worked out, ie size, descending eaves, break up steels/crossmembers, vast 150 years old suspended timber floor.

Expense spent on acoustically treating the eaves and floor during construction have worked out just fine. Any thoughts on Acustica Applicata, GIK, AVAA etc are just that, thoughts. And likely to stay that way.

I see that both Steve Williams and Tang have taken their subs out, surely that's the equivalent to what I'm doing by taking my subs output into more subtle territory. My Zus in effect spec full range down to 40Hz before the subs kick in, surely if I get my subs to kick in at 35Hz, and only to augment kick drum, bass drone and deep organ tones, Im actually doing the right thing, surely.

Now I'm fully open to criticism that this may mean I've lost deep bass capability, I'm sure Barry you'll let me know when we play a few bass torture tracks. I don't think I have, and indeed feel that my upper bass and mids have never been more textured, dense and expressive. I'm happy to compromise a bit on deepest bass (if indeed I have) to achieve greater organicness and continuousness from 30-35Hz and up.

Re analysis on the supertweeters and Lead footers, maybe you're right. The jury is out on them, but initial findings are positive.

Now, as to whether Zu is a good choice full stop, and whether the £60k I've spent on cables, supports, balanced power, grounding, plus some misfires on components spends, could have gone on "better" speakers, yes one can make a strong argument on that.

I'm sure Ked would have patted me on the back had I bought AG Duos Mezzos, and you would have done the same had I bought Maggies or Magicos LOL.

I'm gonna stop here, otherwise I'll sound too defensive and protective of my thought process. I actually do feel I've achieved a commendable result in the high end, but if it's only to my taste, so be it. However I'm open minded enough, and sufficiently chilled, to see that there are different routes to have gone down, esp re spkrs and the budget I could have had.

And for all those who hate the Zu sound ie Ked, or just don't quite get them ie Barry, my journey will just make no sense.

 

[bonzo75]

Marc, it's not about getting Zu sound or not getting it. Like I said, I might get modded tannoys. If I do so, I will be clear in my mind they are a compromise to a higher quality horn. Similarly, if I get a schopper 124, it is a compromise to certain higher quality TTs. I am clearly doing it to save money. No point then adding further add ons to the 124 to such an extent that the spend starts approaching a Vyger or something. Which is what you are doing.

Your money spent on the Zus vs accessories is not balanced, except of course unless you think the Zu Nat is the perfect system and can hardly be bettered, then by all means go out and keep spending the rest on accessories, like Mike does

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, in one critical parameter, I really do feel Zu/Nat does something really exemplary, but you remain sceptical when I've bored you on the subject.

Indeed Ron, who's heard plenty of top performing systems, gets what I like.

Full range high eff crossoverless w powered subs, off SETs, in a large room, enables me to get mids/upper bass tone density, immersiveness and dynamic shove, that for me at least is highly communicative and addictive.

And that's why I've stuck w Zu, and spent big on maxxing the sound, not going futher on the gear upgrade merry-go-round.

But I realise there are more arguments against this direction than there are for it.