Wall Outlets

[audioguy]

The drop in the noise floor is not subtle.

I know "measure" is a cuss word to many on this forum, but I'll ask again. If there is an audible drop in the noise floor ("not subtle" ) then the ambient room noise will be less with all equipment on (and no music) with the high-end receptacle than with the crappy one. You were very specific in the change that the new receptacle provides. Unlike some other audiophile subjective terms where maybe measurements have yet to be defined, noise floor is measurable with some pretty basic test equipment and a well calibrated microphone. How much of a drop do you believe the new receptacle provides?

 

[MylesBAstor]

I know "measure" is a cuss word to many on this forum, but I'll ask again. If there is an audible drop in the noise floor ("not subtle" ) then the ambient room noise will be less with all equipment on (and no music) with the high-end receptacle than with the crappy one. You were very specific in the change that the new receptacle provides. Unlike some other audiophile subjective terms where maybe measurements have yet to be defined, noise floor is measurable with some pretty basic test equipment and a well calibrated microphone. How much of a drop do you believe the new receptacle provides?

Maybe for the type of noise you're talking about measuring but that's not the only type of noise. Can you accept that there's noise that intermodulates with the actual signal? Or that there's noise such as harmonic multiples of the 60 Hz sine wave created (now that's measurable as has been demoed by PS Audio). Alterations in the power factor? Or that at the atomic level, there's not a smooth connection between the plug and receptacle that changes the game? There's a boat load of things going on other than straight hiss as basically you're suggesting.

 

[fas42]

if you don't want to spend the money to optimize your power grid then good on you. but as you go down the road of system optimization eventually it leads you to every damn thing. and every single item in the power grid has a sound......particularly any connection. connectivity, resonance, metalurgy will all be variables. optimize each one and distortion gets reduced.

stick your tongue out at this if you like. but that does not change cause and effect.

if we really are interested here in 'What's Best' then this is what it takes.

Mike's on exactly the right road here, except as stated elsewhere, that I went the final step and effectively hard wired the gear back to the fuse box. Still didn't fix the real problem, though!!

Of course, if you really go the whole hog on this tweaking thing you will be able to listen to, horror of horrors, new wave pop at max. volume!

Frank

 

[MylesBAstor]

Mike's on exactly the right road here, except as stated elsewhere, that I went the final step and effectively hard wired the gear back to the fuse box. Still didn't fix the real problem, though!!

Of course, if you really go the whole hog on this tweaking thing you will be able to listen to, horror of horrors, new wave pop at max. volume!

Frank

Or use something like the new Veloce preamp that is battery powered. No muss, no fuss.

 

[fas42]

I know "measure" is a cuss word to many on this forum, but I'll ask again. If there is an audible drop in the noise floor ("not subtle" ) then the ambient room noise will be less with all equipment on (and no music) with the high-end receptacle than with the crappy one. You were very specific in the change that the new receptacle provides. Unlike some other audiophile subjective terms where maybe measurements have yet to be defined, noise floor is measurable with some pretty basic test equipment and a well calibrated microphone. How much of a drop do you believe the new receptacle provides?

I believe the problem here is terminology: what's being lowered is not noise in the technical sense, but distortion. Noise is essentially random in nature, like hiss of a tape; distortion is signal related -- no music, no distortion. As far as the ear/brain is concerned they end up being similar things, they get in the way of enjoying the music. So you want to reduce both.

The big headache is that the typical way of measuring distortion drop or levels is very clumsy and crude: tells you almost nothing about what is really going on, which is why such measurements lost almost all credibility with audiophiles years ago ...

Frank

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Or use something like the new Veloce preamp that is battery powered. No muss, no fuss.

my darTZeel NHB-18NS is also battery powered; which when in battery mode still adds a tiny bit of nuance compared to my power grid. but it use to add considerably more than it does now. and everything else is not battery powered.

 

[MylesBAstor]

my darTZeel NHB-18NS is also battery powered; which when in battery mode still adds a tiny bit of nuance compared to my power grid. but it use to add considerably more than it does now. and everything else is not battery powered.

Yes the Dartzeel is The Veloce was the first one that came to mind.

 

[fas42]

my darTZeel NHB-18NS is also battery powered; which when in battery mode still adds a tiny bit of nuance compared to my power grid. but it use to add considerably more than it does now. and everything else is not battery powered.

Which, again, demonstrates the problem. There are no simple answers, there is not a series of checkboxes to tick off to get really good sound, ultimately it is only persistence, persistence and more persistence at working at every aspect that makes it happen.

At least, that's the case at the moment ...

Frank

 

[mep]

The knock I always here with regards to battery powered preamps and phono preamps is that they lack "punch." It seems that batteries just can't provide the dynamic swings that you get from AC power supplies.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I know "measure" is a cuss word to many on this forum, but I'll ask again. If there is an audible drop in the noise floor ("not subtle" ) then the ambient room noise will be less with all equipment on (and no music) with the high-end receptacle than with the crappy one. You were very specific in the change that the new receptacle provides. Unlike some other audiophile subjective terms where maybe measurements have yet to be defined, noise floor is measurable with some pretty basic test equipment and a well calibrated microphone. How much of a drop do you believe the new receptacle provides?

no one said you could not measure it. measure away. go ahead, buy the gear and measure it. oh, you want me to do that, do you? why would i care?

please read the 'sticky' thread at the top of this forum about measurements. haven't we totally killed that subject. why that monstrosity of a thread is sticking up there is beyond me.

 

[MylesBAstor]

The knock I always here with regards to battery powered preamps and phono preamps is that they lack "punch." It seems that batteries just can't provide the dynamic swings that you get from AC power supplies.

I agree in general with you Mark. Dark and lacking dynamics. But the new Veloce and Dartzeel should be heard. When you go to RMAF, ask Jonathan Tinn to play the Dartzeel in battery and AC mode. It'll be an interesting experience.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike's on exactly the right road here, except as stated elsewhere, that I went the final step and effectively hard wired the gear back to the fuse box. Still didn't fix the real problem, though!!

Of course, if you really go the whole hog on this tweaking thing you will be able to listen to, horror of horrors, new wave pop at max. volume!

Frank

i know they never have fires in OZ, ......but if your home catches on fire from the hard wired audio system your home insurance will not likely repair it. kinda important to consider. i do agree it is a likely source of performance improvement properly executed.

don't try this at home children.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I agree in general with you Mark. Dark and lacking dynamics. But the new Veloce and Dartzeel should be heard. When you go to RMAF, ask Jonathan Tinn to play the Dartzeel in battery and AC mode. It'll be an interesting experience.

batteries (properly executed and working within their performance envelop) have more dynamics than the power grid. they react quicker to a load. unfortunately, implementation is rarely up to the task.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I know "measure" is a cuss word to many on this forum, but I'll ask again. If there is an audible drop in the noise floor ("not subtle" ) then the ambient room noise will be less with all equipment on (and no music) with the high-end receptacle than with the crappy one. You were very specific in the change that the new receptacle provides. Unlike some other audiophile subjective terms where maybe measurements have yet to be defined, noise floor is measurable with some pretty basic test equipment and a well calibrated microphone. How much of a drop do you believe the new receptacle provides?

i did not remember saying that there was lower noise; i said it had less distortion. so i went back and read what i said about the difference from the Oyaide R-1 to the Furutech GTX-D Rhodium outlets.

i could not find anything i said that mentioned 'lower noise'. btw, that is not what i heard either. it had less distortion, i was able to turn the treble gain up because the high frequecy hash was gone. i said everything was 'cleaned up' and the bass was more linear.

but not lower noise.

i might have written that but i could not find it.

 

[audioguy]

i did not remember saying that there was lower noise; ...

i might have written that but i could not find it.

You didn't, Mike. Myles did in post #3 (sizable drop) and again in post #23 ("The drop in the noise floor is not subtle")

 

[fas42]

i know they never have fires in OZ, ......but if your home catches on fire from the hard wired audio system your home insurance will not likely repair it. kinda important to consider. i do agree it is a likely source of performance improvement properly executed.

don't try this at home children.

No, I gave this idea away long time ago. As mentioned elsewhere I assume that the power coming out of the wall is a mess, which, if you look at it on a 'scope, is true. The beloved pure sine wave mains power that the objectivists believe is there for the taking is nowhere in sight, so my technique is to get rid of all the crud from the plug onwards.

Frank

 

[mep]

If the power coming out of the wall is a mess, hardwiring in your gear to the wires in the wall isn't going to help one bit.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim-are you saying that we if we want a revealing system we should all have a stereo just like yours?

No, I'm saying exactly what I said in the statement you quoted, Mark - that if revealing the most details in the recordings, is the criteria for quality, as Myles said, then the obvious path to audio nirvana is the lowest possible noise and distortion and the flattest frequency response at the listener's ears, and that will be achieved by digital, solid state and headphones. Headphones remove room distortions and crossovers. Pretty simple. The data for the cleanliness and accuracy of digital is pretty hard to argue with. Any argument against it is going to be subjective, which leads us to your second question:

Are you saying that your revealing stereo really doesn’t sound very good?

No, actually, it sounds great within its limits, but my choice of headphones are not clinically accurate. The do deliver a lot of detail; it's hard for good headphones to avoid that. But they do it in a warm, smooth package that is very pleasant to listen to. I also own a pair of Etymotic IEMs -- pretty flat and accurate. Not as pleasant to listen to. I'm pretty dogmatic about clean, accurate media and electronics - no vinyl or tubes for me. But I'll take a little room gain with my speakers and a little engineered warmth in my headphones.

I'm a closet subjectivist.

Tim

 

[fas42]

If the power coming out of the wall is a mess, hardwiring in your gear to the wires in the wall isn't going to help one bit.

I agree. It helps a bit in certain areas, but doesn't do anything to clean away the distortion in the mains, due to to devices in your home and elsewhere sucking spikes of current at the peak of the voltage swing. This has to be fixed by inserting decent mains filtering, and this is a whole new can of worms ...

Frank