What is a reviewer?

[Mike Lavigne]

I sat in a.stereo store with a nice 7 channel stereo and a Fleetwood Mac concert on the projector screen. Sort of a Wow experiencs. The visual aid helps take you there. Darn enjoyable.

absolutely darn enjoyable. agree.

musically what multi-channel and dsp does best. carry us away with scale and sweep + visuals. triggers all the senses....and deep memories.

and although different YouTube even on a laptop goes down the same road. visuals add so much and take us places. we tend to not be so picky on the sound and sonic realism. we just cave to where we are going experientially.

 

[Elliot G.]

absolutely darn enjoyable. agree.

musically what multi-channel and dsp does best. carry us away with scale and sweep + visuals. triggers all the senses....and deep memories.

and although different YouTube even on a laptop goes down the same road. visuals add so much and take us places. we tend to not be so picky on the sound and sonic realism. we just cave to where we are going experientially.

A very different experience and sadly not one that I want to repeat daily or even often, I have done some major combination system for people and it amazes me that after a short period of time they go back to listening to music and very rarely do that with video except to watch TV or a movie. Music videos and concert videos don't get watched oiver and over yet listening to the album does, things that make you go hmmmm!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

A very different experience and sadly not one that I want to repeat daily or even often, I have done some major combination system for people and it amazes me that after a short period of time they go back to listening to music and very rarely do that with video except to watch TV or a movie. Music videos and concert videos don't get watched oiver and over yet litening to the album does, things that make you go hmmmm!

not a 'steady diet' thing. been months since i did it. but can be fun. i'm doing 2 channel 5+ hours a day and don't plan on that changing.

i never suggested compromising 2 channel with add-on multi-channel at all. my multi-channel is in my dedicated Home Theater and also my football watching spot with the small Dolby Atmos upstairs in my barn.

my only point was adding video to multi-channel does do some special things, but it's not the musical connection of 2 channel, it's something else.

 

[Rt66indierock]

I assume you mean you were taught audio measurements.

Sorry Ron, they taught me how to listen and evaluate sound. Well enough that I was part of a team that repaired and upgraded radio stations from age 19 to 34.

Her is something I posted on Audiophile Style on August 3,2022.

I took a trip down my audio life recently. Began with Rick Roskopf of Tektronix introducing me to engineers who taught me audio as a teenager. Discovering Reed College and people it produced like James Russell and Bill Low. Fun to reread what Walt Jung, Matti Otala and Neville Theile wrote back then.

 

[Another Johnson]

Sorry Ron, they taught me how to listen and evaluate sound. Well enough that I was part of a team that repaired and upgraded radio stations from age 19 to 34.

I’m sorry. I can’t resist. This is such low hanging fruit.

Here goes:

And that is why listening to over the air radio is such a big part of the audiophile experience today.

Sigh. I apologize in advance.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sorry Ron, they taught me how to listen and evaluate sound. Well enough that I was part of a team that repaired and upgraded radio stations from age 19 to 34.

Thank you for explaining.

But what does that have to do with the subjective appraisal of the sound of high-end audio components and stereo systems?

 

[tima]

Music videos and concert videos don't get watched oiver and over yet listening to the album does, things that make you go hmmmm!

It's the difference between reading and watching tv. One actively engages your mind, the other is passive receptivity.

 

[Elliot G.]

It's the difference between reading and watching tv. One actively engages your mind, the other is passive receptivity.

exactly we agree on something

 

[Robh3606]

It's the difference between reading and watching tv. One actively engages your mind, the other is passive receptivity.

So why the visual aspect? If that's so why not the same for live music?

Rob

 

[Joe Whip]

Exactly Rob. I love watching great concert videos in my HT, especially with Atmos tracks.

 

[Elliot G.]

Think more along 20% to 30% on everything but cables. Cables might be 40% for a few manufacturers.

So put this in perspective. A reviewer now has $70,000 to $80,000 plus sales tax out of their pocket instead of $100,000 plus tax.

this is entirely wrong !

 

[JiminGa]

Elliot since no one else will say, what is a typical reviewer accommodation on a pair of speakers?

 

[Lee]

Elliot since no one else will say, what is a typical reviewer accommodation on a pair of speakers?

Varies but usually 50-55%

 

[JiminGa]

Thank you Lee. Seems reasonable

 

[Lee]

Maybe the best path is to learn critical listening skills and learn to trust them.

 

[Lee]

Thank you Lee. Seems reasonable

There can be other conditions like no sale for two years, a right of the company to buy back the product, etc.

 

[tima]

So why the visual aspect? If that's so why not the same for live music?

Rob

It is an interesting topic. I have no clear answer but my mind seems to work differently when watching a movie or a music video with performers than it does when listening to my stereo. When I want to listen to music, visuals can be a distraction.

From my perspective today, a soundtrack and movie sounds are an important part of the watching experience as accompaniments to the visual -- I am focused on the visual, sucked-in by the visual, not so much watching for the sound though it adds to the experience.

In the case of live music I can see where a jazz ensemble can draw my eye to the musicians/entertainers playing their instruments and emoting, so the visual element has a role. In the case of an orchestra, at least for me, I will listen half the time with my eyes closed. The musicians are fun to watch but the sweep of a large group does not lead my mind to focus on the musicians. I'm there for the live music.

In both cases the visual elements lead to a different type of experience than does music alone. Imo the psycho-acoustic aspects of listening to a stereo, come more to the forefront as my mind engages in the absence of visuals. Contra a movie or music video, my mind is not led to combine music and visual and is left free to roam. Just as while reading fiction my mind is free to create the scenes and characters without being led beyond the words on the page.

This is not to say that concert videos on home theater cannot be greatly entertaining -- of course they can. But the experience, imo, is different.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It is an interesting topic. I have no clear answer but my mind seems to work differently when watching a movie or a music video with performers than it does when listening to my stereo. When I want to listen to music, visuals can be a distraction.

From my perspective today, a soundtrack and movie sounds are an important part of the watching experience as accompaniments to the visual -- I am focused on the visual, sucked-in by the visual, not so much watching for the sound though it adds to the experience.

In the case of live music I can see where a jazz ensemble can draw my eye to the musicians/entertainers playing their instruments and emoting, so the visual element has a role. In the case of an orchestra, at least for me, I will listen half the time with my eyes closed. The musicians are fun to watch but the sweep of a large group does not lead my mind to focus on the musicians. I'm there for the live music.

In both cases the visual elements lead to a different type of experience than does music alone. Imo the psycho-acoustic aspects of listening to a stereo, come more to the forefront as my mind engages in the absence of visuals. Contra a movie or music video, my mind is not led to combine music and visual and is left free to roam. Just as while reading fiction my mind is free to create the scenes and characters without being led beyond the words on the page.

This is not to say that concert videos on home theater cannot be greatly entertaining -- of course they can. But the experience, imo, is different.

you almost cannot compare the two experiences. at all.

i listen to 2 channel with the lights dim and my mind in a bit of 'zen' state. even when pushing the SPL's. an out-of-body type experience. and i can do it for extended periods, then do it again, and again. it's very comfortable.

multi-channel music with video is more like watching a movie. it's full tilt boggie and my brain is in a different place. same with live music to a degree if slightly different. with live music i'm more aware of the performer's persona, the place, other people in the audience, and vibe. a collective feeling. i'm looking around to a degree. and never sure exactly what might happen next.

i can't do multi-channel music or live as much as 2 channel.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It is an interesting topic. I have no clear answer but my mind seems to work differently when watching a movie or a music video with performers than it does when listening to my stereo.

+1

I know you don't like the expression, but for me it gets back to the suspension of disbelief thing. If I am conscious that I am watching a TV screen then I know that I cannot possibly be in a concert hall.

 

[tima]

+1

I know you don't like the expression, but for me it gets back to the suspension of disbelief thing. If I am conscious that I am watching a TV screen then I know that I cannot possibly be in a concert hall.

From my understanding of your usage of that phrase, it does not apply in a concert hall or other live venue. But agree that if I am watching tv I know I am not in one.