Funny, I just read this after my reply. Great minds..
Wilson Alexx V vs Rockport Orion
- Thread starter Chpray
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It is not an exaggeration. Spend several hours watching an expert work. Listen/ hear for yourself. Some people don’t believe it because no matter how much they spend the “experts” probably aren’t experts. Yes it’s true that larger rooms are not as subject to low frequency issues so you can “ push the horses” but that’s only one aspect of it. Each and every millimeter counts. The goal is to remove the room asap from the equation. It starts with locking in one speaker. There is no set 25% this 38% that equilateral the other.
Hi Elliot,
Not sure what conspiracy theories you are talking about. But I do agree with you that transparency in this industry would be nice. Lack of information makes people speculate, as you are doing... Specifically, why is "Worthless to the Audio Fans and Malignant to the Hobby " Harley holding on the Wilsons for so long? Did it have anything to do - directly or indirectly - with a recent executive at the Analytical Sound who was a real wilson fan boy. Trying to please the boss? Sign a contract with Wilson? .... would be good to know the truth...
Also, why hasn't Malignant Harley compared the wilsons compared them to the alsyvoxes, rockports, and whatever else he reviewed? (will get too nauseated to look up his reviews)
Anyone who thinks they've removed their room is fooling themselves. You work within your room to launch the sound waves as constructively as possible while minimizing the negative ramifications.
Also, I've heard rooms before and after experts' efforts. Some were better, some worse, mostly different. If you have the patience you can do as good if not better because you have the advantage of time. And you can tweak as needed as you change equipment, especially speakers. All the information is out there (Get Better Sound, Sound Reproduction, videos, forums like this one, etc.). And if you are moderately technical, REW is free and is an invaluable tool to help guide you.
As always, Happy Listening!
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Get better sound doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface. Of course you can’t remove the room but you can do as much as possible and live with the rest. All the information is not out there. I agree most efforts are so so. You’re basically saying a lot of people out there aren’t very good at it which actually makes my point. Measurements are necessary but insufficient . When you say “ different” that is an important point in the discussion. Because we both agree we can and do make things different in a meaningful way it’s impossible to fully account for this when reviewing or listening to different speakers under different conditions. The sound will be different but is it the speakers? That question was the basis of my original post.
It’s not just the dimensions or materials in the room. It’s proper speaker placement and that affects highs, mids, and bass.
That’s not true. It takes setting up hundreds and even thousands of systems to have the knowledge that a Jim Smith or Stirling Trayle have. REW and a bit of time are no substitute for experience. And REW doesn’t measure musical engagement. There are subjective elements to optimal setup.
He already said "The Magico M9 is the best-sounding loudspeaker I’ve heard"
Magico Swings for the Fences: The M9 Loudspeaker by Robert Harley — Magico Loudspeakers
I just returned from visiting Magico’s factory in Hayward, California, where I heard the company’s flagship M9 loudspeaker and learned about its design. The occasion also marked the recent completion of an acoustic overhaul of the Magico factory listening room. Magico has a compelling track record
www.magicoaudio.com
500 and-700 € per piece, the revelator series are really good drivers, but the evolution is unstoppable. Scan Speak is busy the new ellipticor series burn them in ashes after lisening for minute in comparison.
Ok, so quite low priced parts compared to horn drivers, as I imagined. So low priced parts, high margins, is what these guys are paying for.
Let's put it this way, there are much more expensive drivers that aren't as good as Revelators.If you build it yourself you can use something better, but a company needs a reliable supply chain that can produce high quantities and consistent quality. Scanspeak can do that, and they sound very balanced because of the cone material (carbon reinforced paper)
Yes there is always more expensive stuff that isn't as good. But a company can make its own drivers instead of sourcing lower priced ones just because they are easily available, and I doubt the people paying the retail (or retail discounted) cost are aware of the margins. And then there are vintage drivers which are higher cost, better quality, very low margin. Cessaro used TAD drivers and is now, after making money over time, trying to replace with their own drivers. Irrespective of what you think of their sound, you can't argue that Cessaro used expensive, high quality drivers.
Yes, of course you can develop your own drivers, but 85% of all loudspeaker manufacturers get their drivers from here. They have been building drivers for e.g. Klangfilm, Telefunken, Scan Speak, Accuton, Magico, etc. for almost 100 years.
Über uns – Dr. Kurt Müller
wp13470711.server-he.de
In-house development would caused the prices for loudspeakers to explode. No one can afford good loudspeakers if you can't build them themselves.
And the inflation in Scan speak prices compared to the inflation in the speakers it goes into?Yes, of course you can develop your own drivers, but 85% of all loudspeaker manufacturers get their drivers from here. They have been building drivers for e.g. Klangfilm, Telefunken, Scan Speak, Accuton, Magico, etc. for almost 100 years.
Über uns – Dr. Kurt Müller
Lol yes, I forgot that sourcing drivers externally has kept hifi prices low.
I think if the manufacturer only sold directly, without distribution chains, the prices would be even cheaper today. If they had to develop it themselves, they would need someone who could do it and a lot of machines. Nobody who wants to run a profitable company does that anymore. It is rare enthusiasts, usually with small quantities of products, who do something like that. Just look at what a good speaker cabinet costs these days. I think it costs more than the drivers, in my opinion.
What a manufacturer should do is very different from what a consumer should do
I dont see your point if Cessaro is making transducers with TAD units its apparently OK
And if somebody else make LS with off the shelf units from scanspeak its suddenly overpriced and a rip off.
There is much more to LS design then the type of units that are used , its about the total execution of the design .
And if somebody else make LS with off the shelf units from scanspeak its suddenly overpriced and a rip off.
There is much more to LS design then the type of units that are used , its about the total execution of the design .
My point was the cost and quality of drivers being used among the ones commercially available. Both have high margins. hORNs use Radian beryllium. There are many other high quality, high priced drivers currently in use. Surely the enthusiastic audiophiles know them, those not interested should just go by retail price rather than do research.
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