Zero Distortion: Apogee Duetta, Scintilla, and tussle with horns

[bonzo75]

Excited by the Scintilla the previous weekend, I visited Henk since I had one day off for Easter.

I have now chosen the Scintilla over the Duetta and the Diva. So that leaves me with a Scintilla and a horn choice that I will close off in June

http://zero-distortion.org/apogee_duetta_scintilla/

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Ked, that's yr most fascinating read yet
You have quite the decision
The q is, is there any conflict in yr head when you mentally consider settling on Apogee or bespoke horn?
What I mean is that could you imagine being conflicted if you bought one spkr, and you play music more suited than the other?
Which truly is the better all rounder?

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Ked, that's yr most fascinating read yet
You have quite the decision
The q is, is there any conflict in yr head when you mentally consider settling on Apogee or bespoke horn?
What I mean is that could you imagine being conflicted if you bought one spkr, and you play music more suited than the other?
Which truly is the better all rounder?

Thanks - as an audiophile I am wary of buyer's remorse and hence I am listening myself out of the regret. One more session with horns should confirm, only thing is of horns are top choice there will be space challenge

 

[Diapason]

I feel like we should open a book as to what you'll eventually decide. Even in a two horse race, I'm still not sure where I'd put my money.

Interesting stuff all the same, Ked, I'm really enjoying the journey.

 

[Jazzhead]

Buy em both I say !

 

[the sound of Tao]

^ the perfect response.

 

[spiritofmusic]

JazzH, are you spending Ked's hard earned?
I tried to spend Mike Lavigne's cash recently, suggesting he buy Troy Emperor spkr xover grounding at $30k

 

[morricab]

Excited by the Scintilla the previous weekend, I visited Henk since I had one day off for Easter.

I have now chosen the Scintilla over the Duetta and the Diva. So that leaves me with a Scintilla and a horn choice that I will close off in June

http://zero-distortion.org/apogee_duetta_scintilla/

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Sounds like you were sitting originally in a room node where the bass was cancelled out to some degree. That said, Duettas would be more ideal in a 20-30 square meter room than Henk's large room. I don't think you should sell the Divas short. They are extremely good but perhaps need more care in setup and partnering amps (they work well with a wider range of amps).

 

[bonzo75]

Sounds like you were sitting originally in a room node where the bass was cancelled out to some degree. That said, Duettas would be more ideal in a 20-30 square meter room than Henk's large room. I don't think you should sell the Divas short. They are extremely good but perhaps need more care in setup and partnering amps (they work well with a wider range of amps).

Hi I moved across the room. The sounded best at far end. And yes, his room is too big for duettas. In Lissnr’s room and Justin’s bass is great. With Divas, just stuck in the middle, as I said. They don’t fit a duetta room, who is going to have a room exactly between “too big for duetta but small for FR”, and Scintilla holds more magic sonically for many. Actually, the apogee that got me hooked first onto apogee was Reudiger’s Full range, the midrange purity, the thunderous bass, but in his 14m*4m room in some frequencies the bass was too thick, and the narrowness of the room gave some imaging issues. These are no more a concern with duetta and scintilla, and with scintilla I felt that purity.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19104-Apogee-Full-range&p=355730&viewfull=1#post355730

 

[spiritofmusic]

Brad, due in no small part to Ked, I retain an ongoing interest in considering going Apogees
My room is a good 90-100 sq ms, but desc roofline rules out any spkr >1.5-1.6m high
So in terms of volume, space around spkrs, listening distance to spkrs, my room could accommodate any big beasts including Grands, FRs or Divas
But ceiling considerations only allow Duettas or Scintillas

 

[bonzo75]

Brad, due in no small part to Ked, I retain an ongoing interest in considering going Apogees
My room is a good 90-100 sq ms, but desc roofline rules out any spkr >1.5-1.6m high
So in terms of volume, space around spkrs, listening distance to spkrs, my room could accommodate any big beasts including Grands, FRs or Divas
But ceiling considerations only allow Duettas or Scintillas

Like I said, in your room you can go large horns but not large Apogees, so you will be compromising on bass if you don't get a big horn. You also risk losing bass in such a room with the duetta. Not sure. A horn, you can keep it much farther apart and get a lot of scale

 

[bonzo75]

Read a funny comment "The Scintilla doesn't drop down to 1-2 ohms....it doesn't get above 1-2 ohms"

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, in my room, any spkr up to 1.5-1.6m ht, I can place up to 2.5-2.75m apart, w at least 1-1.5 m to side walls, and any amount of distance to front wall and distance to me w my 15-17m deep room
This means Duettas and Scintillas good, Trios too (w slight caveat of them being less than 1m from side walls)
Once we get twds 2m and higher, my descending roofline eaves preclude positioning spkrs more than 2m apart (case w Divas), and w spkrs 2.3m high and more eg FRs, Liszts, Arrakis, even closer is forced
So Trios, Scintillas, Duettas and other spkrs up to 1.6m are fine
Ergonomics in room are the easy bit
Amp synergy concerns are something else (beaten to death on other threads re amp requirements of Apogees, don't need to revisit), and the physical access issues I have getting 125-150kg spkrs into my room (which we've chatted about via PM)

 

[KeithR]

Read a funny comment "The Scintilla doesn't drop down to 1-2 ohms....it doesn't get above 1-2 ohms"

Yeah, just don't understand the appetite for this at all in 2017.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Keith, I guess it's kinda similar to meeting the woman of yr dreams, and finding she's full on into whip-wielding S&M
I guess the Scintillas are the sadist
No idea who the masochist is

 

[bonzo75]

Yeah, just don't understand the appetite for this at all in 2017.

Actually, better in 2017 - more options apart from only Krell. If you read Salvatore's High end audio blog (and I have no idea how credible or not he is, but he definitely is on this point), he puts Apogees in class B because of the amps of that era, and says that now with better amps it should move to class A. He then starts a new thread on the Definitives, and despite having not heard them, says this modern day sensitive apogee will be the best speaker today. My point is, with better class A SS amps these days, and better framed, better crossover component parts, and better ribbons, Apogees are more relevant then ever.

 

[wisnon]

Actually, better in 2017 - more options apart from only Krell. If you read Salvatore's High end audio blog (and I have no idea how credible or not he is, but he definitely is on this point), he puts Apogees in class B because of the amps of that era, and says that now with better amps it should move to class A. He then starts a new thread on the Definitives, and despite having not heard them, says this modern day sensitive apogee will be the best speaker today. My point is, with better class A SS amps these days, and better framed, better crossover component parts, and better ribbons, Apogees are more relevant then ever.

Just get a pair of these 3.5kw into 0.5ohms. That will subdue ANY beast....BUT...you can ONLY buy 'em in Switz. Any takers? Ha! http://rowen.ch/en/data/rowen_one.php

About €8K a pair, ie CHF9.5K.

 

[bonzo75]

Additionally, there has been no change in 2017. The other competitors for me are still massive horns based a bit on WE, Klipsch, Silbatone style, from 1950s.

 

[christoph]

Just get a pair of these 3.5kw into 0.5ohms. That will subdue ANY beast....BUT...you can ONLY buy 'em in Switz. Any takers? Ha! http://rowen.ch/en/data/rowen_one.php

About €8K a pair, ie CHF9.5K.

IIRC the Apogee Synergy 1.5 was shown in London some years ago and some people their ears I trust said these amps were not the best choice (to put it mildly) to show the Synergy...

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

I am betting 100% that you end up going with a horn. Deep down and reading your travels the tone presented is that you want to go with a panel, but doing so is going to eliminate your ability to use a SET amplifier (which I know how fond of them you are) or any comparable PP designs.

With a horn you can still get everything you want in a front end and even indulge on the OTL's you love so much.

I am betting the farm on this one....