Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[spiritofmusic]

I really do love this. Dave doesn't believe in tweaks, and is reasonably sceptical or dismissive of them. Yet runs a highly engineered expensive rack. And this is consistent w his view.

As I said, let's pop these top tts on a stack of nicely levelled Stereophile magazines, heavy packing crate, or bulky coffee table, rather than an overengineered rack, and then we can say we don't believe in tweaks.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Of course, the argument would rage: pile of Stereophiles, or HiFi Plus, which sounds better under yr tt?

 

[Tango]

I agree with Christian, this is a significant statement and summary of a very clear and deliberate approach to the hobby. I could well be described as a minimal or pure approach. Tang, have you always felt this way, or has your opinion been influenced by David and the addition of his AS2000 to your system?

I presume you would not describe any room treatment or cable choices as tweaks,. However, I wonder what switching between various cartridges really is if not altering or "tweaking" the sound according to your taste. You used to play more with your other turntable and tonearm alternatives, but it now seems as though you have settled on the AS2000/SME 3012R combination and only switch between cartridges.

Yes, my opinion and approach on sound have been influenced by both David and his tt. It all started with my purchase of EMT927. I bought it simply because I wanted to know why ddk and Airbearing like it so much. I rigorously compared, a/b/c the 927 to the Kronos and AF1P. This is when I started to understand the type of sound with little or no strong characters that attached to the tt. In the process I realized there are distinct characters of both AF1P and Kronos in contrast to the 927. These characters can be heard from one record to another. Not that the 927 doesn't has its own character. It does, but the extent is a lot less distinct. This is when I began to hear more differences from different records.

Then I saw ddk posted about the availability of the American Sound2000. I jumped on it. Once again I want to hear what the rave was all about. The AS2000 landed in my room. Even before ddk came to show me things, it startled me with yet a different level of sound from what I used to get from vinyls. This time I hear even lesser character of tt than the 927. And it came together with extrordinary clarity and details even unmatched by the Techdas. In fact I am still struggling to find a distinct character of the AS2000 apart from its non-character character. So you can say the AS2000has great influence on the way I perceive how reproduced sound should be. I think if a tt has less character and doesnt help creat homogeneity I will get to hear more the cartridge and recording themself.

If you went back to read the thread discussing what type of rack to be used with AS2000, you would find I didn't have any interest to try the active vibe platform under it. That was because I wanted to hear the tt as the manufacturer intended it to sound. The way I see the AS2000 is this tt design principal is all about no nonsense simplicity and super heavy mass. So a simple heavy stable steel rack had been in my mind even before I consulted with ddk. The point is my thinking was evolving toward the manufacturer's intended sound or recording intended sound more and more. This happens to be consistent to ddk's approach. So my principal in building my system down the line from tt to speakers is now evolved toward lesser colors closer to neutrality. The flavors in sound that I want to hear are only those coming from cartridges and recordings.

Then ddk came to my place. I believe his purpose was to make sure I hear and understand how his tt could really convey music from the vinyl. Two things I believe he thought he must do to achieve that. (He can correct me if I am wrong.) First, get my system to sound less color. Second, make me learn how to set up cart right. I knew he wanted to stripped off my gears that he believed contributed a lot of colors to my system. I dont need to tell you guys what those were. I let him because first I was confident I could get my sound back to where it was without a problem and second because I wanted to hear and understand his "natural sound." I am not shy to say the result actually weakened my knees. It devestrated me realizing I spent obscene amount of money into what not necessary really. To talk about it in detail is like squeezing my hand on a wound. So I will skip. But the most important thing ddk did for me was to force me to learn how to tune a cart and to know excatly what to hear when tuning a cart. He told me with all the tweaks I had in my system it would be very difficult to hear the optimum point. Now I fully understand what he meant. His method is all by ears. No 92 degree wankering angle and it works with every cart too. With the right setup of cart, "the sound" just pour out unbelievably without the aid of my expensive tweaks. Each cart, each record just differentiate itself from one another more than ever before. Can you believe that with all the gears I have been having for a long time, only when I have this AS2000 and the techniques ddk gave me I began to fully hear how each piece exhibit its characters. Did ddk tried to convince me to his approach or to trick my brain to hearing things? No. He didnt talk much about sound. He just did the walk and let the sound do all the talk. I hate when people try to prep talking me into hearing. Some manufacturers I met like to do that. Not him.

Regarding your question about switching cartridge consider "tweaking", I dont think it is a tweak. I dont tweak cart. I just setup my cart properly. I dont change head shell, I dont play with different type of screw, I dont try to match cart to certain arm although that could make sound more pleasing. I have top arms and I find the vintage 3012R does the job superbly doesnt show any signature across cartridges I own. Of course, I get data point from Bonzo all the time that this cart sounds great with that arm, etc. I may try just to prove if he is right. But not because I have an urge to search for the ultimate combo. I enjoy different carts because they give me different flavors and presentation to music. Different symphony with different conductor playing the same music can sound different right? That is the way I think about different carts.

This is too long now.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[KeithR]

Keith, I have taken it all out. And put it all back in.

But I'll argue against you that tweaks effects are all in the mind.

You might as well say that yr Bardo isn't any better than the $200 DD JVC tt I was running in 1985. Audiophile bling is also a fantasy.

Marc, then consider an entire Shindo system which requires no tweaks, uses $2 NOS 2-prong power cords, already comes with stock NOS tubes, but does include a very simple iso transformer to keep bad stuff out and ask yourself if you could stop yourself from trying stuff. It's as turn key as it gets.

What we all know: you can't. In fact, you'd be swearing on Ken Shindo's grave what better results you got than him.

 

[ddk]

Yes, my opinion and approach on sound have been influenced by both David and his tt. It all started with my purchase of EMT927. I bought it simply because I wanted to know why ddk and Airbearing like it so much. I rigorously compared, a/b/c the 927 to the Kronos and AF1P. This is when I started to understand the type of sound with little or no strong characters that attached to the tt. In the process I realized there are distinct characters of both AF1P and Kronos in contrast to the 927. These characters can be heard from one record to another. Not that the 927 doesn't has its own character. It does, but the extent is a lot less distinct. This is when I began to hear more differences from different records.

Then I saw ddk posted about the availability of the American Sound2000. I jumped on it. Once again I want to hear what the rave was all about. The AS2000 landed in my room. Even before ddk came to show me things, it startled me with yet a different level of sound from what I used to get from vinyls. This time I hear even lesser character of tt than the 927. And it came together with extrordinary clarity and details even unmatched by the Techdas. In fact I am still struggling to find a distinct character of the AS2000 apart from its non-character character. So you can say the AS2000has great influence on the way I perceive how reproduced sound should be. I think if a tt has less character and doesnt help creat homogeneity I will get to hear more the cartridge and recording themself.

If you went back to read the thread discussing what type of rack to be used with AS2000, you would find I didn't have any interest to try the active vibe platform under it. That was because I wanted to hear the tt as the manufacturer intended it to sound. The way I see the AS2000 is this tt design principal is all about no nonsense simplicity and super heavy mass. So a simple heavy stable steel rack had been in my mind even before I consulted with ddk. The point is my thinking was evolving toward the manufacturer's intended sound or recording intended sound more and more. This happens to be consistent to ddk's approach. So my principal in building my system down the line from tt to speakers is now evolved toward lesser colors closer to neutrality. The flavors in sound that I want to hear are only those coming from cartridges and recordings.

Then ddk came to my place. I believe his purpose was to make sure I hear and understand how his tt could really convey music from the vinyl. Two things I believe he thought he must do to achieve that. (He can correct me if I am wrong.) First, get my system to sound less color. Second, make me learn how to set up cart right. I knew he wanted to stripped off my gears that he believed contributed a lot of colors to my system. I dont need to tell you guys what those were. I let him because first I was confident I could get my sound back to where it was without a problem and second because I wanted to hear and understand his "natural sound." I am not shy to say the result actually weakened my knees. It devestrated me realizing I spent obscene amount of money into what not necessary really. To talk about it in detail is like squeezing my hand on a wound. So I will skip. But the most important thing ddk did for me was to force me to learn how to tune a cart and to know excatly what to hear when tuning a cart. He told me with all the tweaks I had in my system it would be very difficult to hear the optimum point. Now I fully understand what he meant. His method is all by ears. No 92 degree wankering angle and it works with every cart too. With the right setup of cart, "the sound" just pour out unbelievably without the aid of my expensive tweaks. Each cart, each record just differentiate itself from one another more than ever before. Can you believe that with all the gears I have been having for a long time, only when I have this AS2000 and the techniques ddk gave me I began to fully hear how each piece exhibit its characters. Did ddk tried to convince me to his approach or to trig my brain to hearing things? No. He didnt talk much about sound. He just did the walk and let the sound do all the talk. I hate when people try to prep talking me into hearing. Some manufacturers I met like to do that. Not him.

Regarding your question about switching cartridge consider "tweaking", I dont think it is a tweak. I dont tweak cart. I just setup my cart properly. I dont change head shell, I dont play with different type of screw, I dont try to match cart to certain arm although that could make sound more pleasing. I have top arms and I find the vintage 3012R does the job superbly doesnt show any signature across cartridges I own. Of course, I get data point from Bonzo all the time that this cart sounds great with that arm, etc. I may try just to prove if he is right. But not because I have an urge to search for the ultimate combo. I enjoy different carts because they give me different flavors and presentation to music. Different symphony with different conductor playing the same music can sound different right? That is the way I think about different carts.

This is too long now.

Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Tang,

You're right about my reasons for visiting the AS2000 gang, I want to make sure that people get full benefit of this beautiful turntable but there's also the selfish reason of meeting people like you and forming lasting friendships. I have to thank Steve and WBF for providing such special opportunities!

david

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, my opinion and approach on sound have been influenced by both David and his tt. It all started with my purchase of EMT927. I bought it simply because I wanted to know why ddk and Airbearing like it so much. I rigorously compared, a/b/c the 927 to the Kronos and AF1P. This is when I started to understand the type of sound with little or no strong characters that attached to the tt. In the process I realized there are distinct characters of both AF1P and Kronos in contrast to the 927. These characters can be heard from one record to another. Not that the 927 doesn't has its own character. It does, but the extent is a lot less distinct. This is when I began to hear more differences from different records.

Then I saw ddk posted about the availability of the American Sound2000. I jumped on it. Once again I want to hear what the rave was all about. The AS2000 landed in my room. Even before ddk came to show me things, it startled me with yet a different level of sound from what I used to get from vinyls. This time I hear even lesser character of tt than the 927. And it came together with extrordinary clarity and details even unmatched by the Techdas. In fact I am still struggling to find a distinct character of the AS2000 apart from its non-character character. So you can say the AS2000has great influence on the way I perceive how reproduced sound should be. I think if a tt has less character and doesnt help creat homogeneity I will get to hear more the cartridge and recording themself.

If you went back to read the thread discussing what type of rack to be used with AS2000, you would find I didn't have any interest to try the active vibe platform under it. That was because I wanted to hear the tt as the manufacturer intended it to sound. The way I see the AS2000 is this tt design principal is all about no nonsense simplicity and super heavy mass. So a simple heavy stable steel rack had been in my mind even before I consulted with ddk. The point is my thinking was evolving toward the manufacturer's intended sound or recording intended sound more and more. This happens to be consistent to ddk's approach. So my principal in building my system down the line from tt to speakers is now evolved toward lesser colors closer to neutrality. The flavors in sound that I want to hear are only those coming from cartridges and recordings.

Then ddk came to my place. I believe his purpose was to make sure I hear and understand how his tt could really convey music from the vinyl. Two things I believe he thought he must do to achieve that. (He can correct me if I am wrong.) First, get my system to sound less color. Second, make me learn how to set up cart right. I knew he wanted to stripped off my gears that he believed contributed a lot of colors to my system. I dont need to tell you guys what those were. I let him because first I was confident I could get my sound back to where it was without a problem and second because I wanted to hear and understand his "natural sound." I am not shy to say the result actually weakened my knees. It devestrated me realizing I spent obscene amount of money into what not necessary really. To talk about it in detail is like squeezing my hand on a wound. So I will skip. But the most important thing ddk did for me was to force me to learn how to tune a cart and to know excatly what to hear when tuning a cart. He told me with all the tweaks I had in my system it would be very difficult to hear the optimum point. Now I fully understand what he meant. His method is all by ears. No 92 degree wankering angle and it works with every cart too. With the right setup of cart, "the sound" just pour out unbelievably without the aid of my expensive tweaks. Each cart, each record just differentiate itself from one another more than ever before. Can you believe that with all the gears I have been having for a long time, only when I have this AS2000 and the techniques ddk gave me I began to fully hear how each piece exhibit its characters. Did ddk tried to convince me to his approach or to trick my brain to hearing things? No. He didnt talk much about sound. He just did the walk and let the sound do all the talk. I hate when people try to prep talking me into hearing. Some manufacturers I met like to do that. Not him.

Regarding your question about switching cartridge consider "tweaking", I dont think it is a tweak. I dont tweak cart. I just setup my cart properly. I dont change head shell, I dont play with different type of screw, I dont try to match cart to certain arm although that could make sound more pleasing. I have top arms and I find the vintage 3012R does the job superbly doesnt show any signature across cartridges I own. Of course, I get data point from Bonzo all the time that this cart sounds great with that arm, etc. I may try just to prove if he is right. But not because I have an urge to search for the ultimate combo. I enjoy different carts because they give me different flavors and presentation to music. Different symphony with different conductor playing the same music can sound different right? That is the way I think about different carts.

This is too long now.

Kind regards,
Tang

Tang, while nicely written, this is how I interpreted what you have written:

"I owned Kronos and AF1P, but the EMT 927 and AS were better in showing natural sound and the differences between the records. However, Kronos and AF1P are main components, not tweaks, but I will make a judgement on tweaks characterizing sound anyway. So I bought AS 2000, and I wanted to hear it like DDK voiced it. He uses a simple table. So I decided not to get the simple table for a few hundred dollars, but bought a well-engineered table instead, which is not a simple table, but still, not a tweak. It takes away nothing, trust me. I put my EMT phono on this table, and the Ayon phono for the other natural sounding table on another differently engineered rack, which is also not a simple table, and also takes away nothing, though probably sounds different (I haven't tried) from the other table. Now that I do not have tweaks, just engineered tables, I can listen to differences between records in a natural manner, and judge that footers are tweaks.

And yes, had I visited Mike instead, I might have heard differences between the records as well in a natural fashion, and ended up with Herzan instead of the simple table that DDK voiced the AS on that I did not get. Or if I had visited the General, I would have heard differences between records and got a Shun Mook rack. I should tell myself, there are many ways to do this"

 

[Tango]

Tang, while nicely written, this is how I interpreted what you have written:

"I owned Kronos and AF1P, but the EMT 927 and AS were better in showing natural sound and the differences between the records. However, Kronos and AF1P are main components, not tweaks, but I will make a judgement on tweaks characterizing sound anyway. So I bought AS 2000, and I wanted to hear it like DDK voiced it. He uses a simple table. So I decided not to get the simple table for a few hundred dollars, but bought a well-engineered table instead, which is not a simple table, but still, not a tweak. It takes away nothing, trust me. I put my EMT phono on this table, and the Ayon phono for the other natural sounding table on another differently engineered rack, which is also not a simple table, and also takes away nothing, though probably sounds different (I haven't tried) from the other table. Now that I do not have tweaks, just engineered tables, I can listen to differences between records in a natural manner, and judge that footers are tweaks.

And yes, had I visited Mike instead, I might have heard differences between the records as well in a natural fashion, and ended up with Herzan instead of the simple table that DDK voiced the AS on that I did not get. Or if I had visited the General, I would have heard differences between records and got a Shun Mook rack. I should tell myself, there are many ways to do this"

Dude. You are rubbing your sides allover the place. Your skin must be bleeding now. Read Tima's comment again. He is right. Get over it man.

XoXo,
Tang

 

[spiritofmusic]

Yep Keith, like I've ever said I get better results than anyone else, as a result of tweaking. Or that someone else would do way better if they tweaked.

 

[microstrip]

(...) For me I've been driven to tweak more because I'm a fan of my basic sound and it's specific character, but have wanted more differences btwn recordings. I'm much closer to that now.

It seems people are changing their objectives - they do not listen to music to evaluate their systems, they look for the differences in the recording process. IMHO a different, but for me a somewhat strange way of evaluating or perfecting a system. Analog engineers managed to overcome the limitations of the stereo media using techniques that were able to create the feeling of depth and layers in sound to create a more realistic and more enjoyable sound reproduction. Surely we can tune our systems to focus on dissecting their specific techniques, but then we are moving towards the objective of just listening to parts of the signal as pure as possible, the objective of most professionals, but usually not the consumer perspective.

In the end we are back to Ron basic question on audiophile priorities ...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Francisco, all I was really trying to say was that my journey has been to a place where my room imposes less on the sound, and I'm hearing much more differentiation in tonality and timbre from disc to disc. My enjoyment has spiked as a result. Surely that's good.

 

[Tango]

Dear Tang,

there's also the selfish reason of meeting people like you and forming lasting friendships. I have to thank Steve and WBF for providing such special opportunities!

david

We must have shared some good karma together in our past life Khun David

Tang

 

[bonzo75]

No, there is a difference. I addressed this in a previous post. Taking two of Ron's objectives:
1. To recreate sound similar to live
2. To listen to recordings

I would rephrase this as:
1. To recreate sound similar to live so that all recordings sound similar to live, but they have the same stage, imaging, style, across all performances. For example, irrespective of whether played by CSO or BSO, they all sound like LSO all played at Barbican.

2. You let through what is recorded to recreate the sound of live. So actually you achieve objective 1 via 2. Also, this is not analysis of the recording engineer. It is not to understand if they used one or multi mic, or what cutter, verticut or tube or SS, etc (though that might help in purchasing vinyl and can be another part of the hobby). By listening to recordings, I mean if I am listening to heifetz on RCA vs Oistrakh on Decca with different orchestras at different venues, I want it to sound different. If you have a consistent stage and feel for both concertos, I consider that a flaw, because the actual stage is not showing through.

Good recordings and performances are fun to listen to when you can understand differences. They all increase the feeling of realism. Mike, general, Anamighty, the universum system I listen to, devore, all have this. Yes, the overall system characteristics differ, and maybe you won't like the bass of devore compared to your Wilsons, or some other attribute, but that's a different point. At Bill's, his minstrel speakers are not currently full range, but the transparency to recordings is super high.

This is different from a component color. At Tang's, there is a difference with each table, though each table has its own character. At Anamighty, the ST ST Motus will have a slight mid bass bump always, but there is transparency to recordings. I don't hear this with Wilson, Magico, Lansche, Avalon. I did hear it with Logans. Yes, there are many other attributes you can choose speakers on that have been discussed and will be discussed. But this is important for me as I like enjoying all these well recorded old classical performances.

 

[microstrip]

No, there is a difference. I addressed this in a previous post. Taking two of Ron's objectives:
1. To recreate sound similar to live
2. To listen to recordings

I would rephrase this as:
1. To recreate sound similar to live so that all recordings sound similar to live, but they have the same stage, imaging, style, across all performances. For example, irrespective of whether played by CSO or BSO, they all sound like LSO all played at Barbican.

2. You let through what is recorded to recreate the sound of live. So actually you achieve objective 1 via 2. Also, this is not analysis of the recording engineer. It is not to understand if they used one or multi mic, or what cutter, verticut or tube or SS, etc (though that might help in purchasing vinyl and can be another part of the hobby). By listening to recordings, I mean if I am listening to heifetz on RCA vs Oistrakh on Decca with different orchestras at different venues, I want it to sound different. If you have a consistent stage and feel for both concertos, I consider that a flaw, because the actual stage is not showing through.

Good recordings and performances are fun to listen to when you can understand differences. They all increase the feeling of realism. Mike, general, Anamighty, the universum system I listen to, devore, all have this. Yes, the overall system characteristics differ, and maybe you won't like the bass of devore compared to your Wilsons, or some other attribute, but that's a different point. At Bill's, his minstrel speakers are not currently full range, but the transparency to recordings is super high.

This is different from a component color. At Tang's, there is a difference with each table, though each table has its own character. At Anamighty, the ST ST Motus will have a slight mid bass bump always, but there is transparency to recordings. I don't hear this with Wilson, Magico, Lansche, Avalon. I did hear it with Logans. Yes, there are many other attributes you can choose speakers on that have been discussed and will be discussed. But this is important for me as I like enjoying all these well recorded old classical performances.

I understand your point and enjoyment - but I consider it just a particular preference. What I question is using such preference to evaluate or rank systems. Knowledgeable people will distinguish all the aspects you refer in an average stereo system - I sometimes listen with them and really enjoy learning about it. They listen for one minute in a kitchen radio and they immediately know what is the orchestra or the pianist. Surely I do not have such ability.

IMHO the deep extreme knowledge of the type of recordings you use for evaluation can create a strong bias. Also there are real dangers in using our particular perception of live to evaluate sound reproduction. I find myself much easier to please and more indulgent after listening to live performances - when listening I focus specially on what sounds immediately similar and lifelike . However as time goes and the performance slowly faints I become more exigent.

People must understand that in acoustic music stage is an illusion created by the listener using clues and tricks inserted by the sound engineers - sound engineers do not manipulate the phase in such recordings to create depth and location, but they have to compensate for the lack of visual information. We are free to exaggerate or reduce such clues at the expense of other aspects of sound reproduction. I remember reading a very interesting article debating depth of sound stage in mono - my apologies I can not locate it anymore.

BTW, IMHO your progressive move towards some solid stage is logical and clearly in inline with your current preferences.

 

[PeterA]

I really do love this. Dave doesn't believe in tweaks, and is reasonably sceptical or dismissive of them. Yet runs a highly engineered expensive rack. And this is consistent w his view.

As I said, let's pop these top tts on a stack of nicely levelled Stereophile magazines, heavy packing crate, or bulky coffee table, rather than an overengineered rack, and then we can say we don't believe in tweaks.

Marc, what is it about David's Nothing Rack that you consider "highly engineered"? To me it looks very well built, and extremely heavy, solid, and sturdy, with no mysterious materials or magic shelving. What do you mean by "highly engineered"?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Francisco, at the weekend I listened to two recordings on Blue58's Aqua Formula/SGM/AG Duos system.

One was recently unearthed John Coltrane sessions, one remastered Rush Hemispheres.

And an amazing difference in soundstaging and depth. The Coltrane was truly cavernous, the soundstage extending way back and right in your face. The Hemispheres pretty flat, in btwn the spkrs.

In some ways, both could have been right, I've been at many jazz clubs, and the sound can be right back or in yr face. And lots of rock gigs are loud and project behind you, or stay on the stage.

How is one meant to know what's right in these circumstances? Both were impressive, but I had some reservations on both presentations.

They were SO different. I'm not noticing the same contrast going from one venue to another when listening to live classical.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, Dave isn't recommending putting any tt on a coffee table or packing crate. But he could.

I'd call those non engineered, and any rack costing $000s as over engineered LOL.

 

[PeterA]

Regarding your question about switching cartridge consider "tweaking", I dont think it is a tweak. I dont tweak cart. I just setup my cart properly. I dont change head shell, I dont play with different type of screw, I dont try to match cart to certain arm although that could make sound more pleasing. I have top arms and I find the vintage 3012R does the job superbly doesnt show any signature across cartridges I own. Of course, I get data point from Bonzo all the time that this cart sounds great with that arm, etc. I may try just to prove if he is right. But not because I have an urge to search for the ultimate combo. I enjoy different carts because they give me different flavors and presentation to music. Different symphony with different conductor playing the same music can sound different right? That is the way I think about different carts.

This is too long now.

Kind regards,
Tang

Thanks for that great post, Tang. What I actually meant when I asked about a cartridge being a tweak, is not that one tweaks cartridges with different headshells or mounting screws or set up, no. What I meant was that if one has four or five cartridges, is he tweaking the sound of his system by switching his cartridges from one to another, that is tweaking the sound to his particular mood at that time. It is a serious question to which I don't know the answer. For vinyl guys, this is perhaps the most popular way in which they alter their system's sound from time to time.

Different cartridges present the music from the grooves differently. They are changing flavors. People also do this with tweaks, but don't change them in and out as they do with cartridges. So, perhaps I have answered my own question.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, Dave isn't recommending putting any tt on a coffee table or packing crate. But he could.

I'd call those non engineered, and any rack costing $000s as over engineered LOL.

Marc, with respect, that does not answer my question, but I suppose you know that.

 

[bonzo75]

This is another attribute. For those for whom it's not important, should ignore it. Mono depth and staging is fantastic btw.

I think we are a bit on a different plane. I am not referring to an ability to guess who the pianist or violinist or orchestra is. Knowledgeable people require a radio to that and will tell you from the technique who it is.

But, when a good recording engineer records these performances, listening to the ambience and feel created by the different performances helps enjoyment of the stereo more. It makes the stage, flow, tone, seem more natural, and a better you are there feel. You can listen to more performances of the same piece and enjoy different concerts. This does not necessarily need SS as SETs work great

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for that great post, Tang. What I actually meant when I asked about a cartridge being a tweak, is not that one tweaks cartridges with different headshells or mounting screws or set up, no. What I meant was that if one has four or five cartridges, is he tweaking the sound of his system by switching his cartridges from one to another, that is tweaking the sound to his particular mood at that time. It is a serious question to which I don't know the answer. For vinyl guys, this is perhaps the most popular way in which they alter their system's sound from time to time.

Different cartridges present the music from the grooves differently. They are changing flavors. People also do this with tweaks, but don't change them in and out as they do with cartridges. So, perhaps I have answered my own question.

Different cartridges result in different electrical measurements and consistent listening test identification - I would never consider them as a tweak. It is like using different DAC's. IMHO a tweak should be a add-on, the system should be able to play without it!

Many tweaks are mechanical devices, absorbing energy in certain frequencies and/or radiating it delayed in time. Electrical devices are much harder to accept or understand, as they deal mostly with the indirect effects of EMI/RFI noise in our systems, and our expertise ends at 20 KHz ...