Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[cjfrbw]

ML3 on Steve William’s Alexandria are still an aural memory model for the quality of sound I enjoy the most. I have spent a bit of time with my multi amp/active crossover setup trying to emulate that experience, and have succeeded to some extent. I don’t need that much power for my current midrange ribbons as the fleas do fine, and 5 watts seems overkill. The 50 watt Wavac has some similar traits to the ML3, but the ML3 is just stupendously built by comparison.

I don’t know that the ML3 would be everybody’s cup of tea, but it is tops for what I prefer in amplified sound. I don’t think a solid state circuit could do what it does in terms of space, warmth, texture, etc. etc. I wouldn’t get one because the chassis are just too large and I prefer compact lean and mean audio stuff for my limited audio space, not edifice.

ML2 not so much, although they are pretty good, too. Those are the two Lamm pieces that I have liked. Other Lamm stuff I have heard I can take or leave. Some is a bit on the analytic side for me, but the ML3 is quite different from any other Lamm product I have heard.

(I also think the ML3's sound fantastic according to my You Tube sound-o-meter on Tang's Cessaro's).

 

[andromedaaudio]

Do you sit two meters away from your speakers Andro? The sound of your speakers and room is very immersive and seems not changed much moving around. It would be your sin if you don't tell me privately where you sourced these tapes.

Hello tang i just measured it .
My audio room is in an old 1900 s style appartment with very high ceilings , around 4 meters high and with the old style curves/ facets .
It measures 5.50 long 4 m wide , its what i have to work with, its a rental place i m a temporary expat .
The speakers are placed on the long wall so the side reflections arrive later .
I tried the other way around didnt like it , i also prefer the chimney ornaments between the speakers
They always say those old style houses dont need much treatment to sound okay , they are brick( or natural stone ) houses afaik, no concrete .
The speakers are pulled in from the wall , the tweeter is 1,50 meters from the back wall as i like a bit of space behind the speakers .
I think my head is about 50 cm from the backwall with some simple absorption behind me, not much but it is what it is.
ear -tweeter distance is around 1,90 - 2 meters indeed .

I think the whole room immersion has partly to do with the side firing woofers , if i stand behind one speaker i get radiation from the other speaker . unlike with front firing woofers .
This speaker design is very lively ( easy to drive ,10 watts solid state at minimum) hence the name XPE , Xperimental Preserve Energy .
There are a lot of reasons why it sounds like it does .
First of all the housing which is the most expensive part of the speaker( HPL material )
No stored energy , very hard ( but natural sounding) material with high internal dampning , sound is very much disconnected from the speaker
X over point overlap is very good , flat freq response (custom designed with CLIO measuring gear (hard and software clio 11 )
No dampening material anywhere in the design , not on the baffle and not inside the speaker , it all absorbs energy .
Instead a sloping baffle
X - over design itself .
Parts selected , how its internally wired and i could go on .

The reels are from; hemiolia records / pavarotti and open reel records .
Hugh masekela ( stimela ) analogue productions is also very good .

I ll send you an email with the name of the contact person

 

[Tango]

Thank you Andro. You are no sinner.

 

[Tango]

I have meeting to attend but put it off to the afternoon because some one triggered me to listen stereo. Great to be the boss . Saw Mr. Joe whip mentioned Mel Torme album and in another thread read what Peter wrote about his experience at Rockitman's, so I pull out Mel Torme and Friends Live album. Great great album. I don't remember how I got it. Was it recommended by Gian or was it Gian who sent to me? Anyway if you find one I recommend you buy. This album is like what Peter was talking about. You listen and you just appreciate Mel Torme. He would put a smile on your face and your head would unconsciously move along his singing. The label is Finesse Records W2X 37484. Double LPs.




Here is Mel singing Billy Joel's New York State of Mind.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Okay here a special recording Claude helffer 1975 BEETHOVEN/ RAVEL , there is no other recording this is a one off mastertape done with a studer B62
Its done by a amateur recording engineer , i dont know where he put the mics because you hear a lot of coughing / noise etc from the audience.
Especially after 3 min it gets quit dynamic , i honestly dont see digital or LP do that regardless of cost , those dynamic nuances

 

[andromedaaudio]

Sounds good tang .
One reason i would like to give lamm a try .

 

[Tango]

Okay here a special recording Claude helffer 1975 BEETHOVEN , there is no other recording this is a one off mastertape done with a studer B62
Its done by a amateur recording engineer , i dont know where he put the mics because you hear a lot of coughing / noise etc from the audience.
Especially after 3 min it gets quit dynamic , i honestly dont see digital or LP do that regardless of cost , those dynamic nuances


View attachment 68385

Well that is the top of food chain sonically. Only Bosendorfer lovers might argue otherwise.

 

[Folsom]

Okay here a special recording Claude helffer 1975 BEETHOVEN/ RAVEL , there is no other recording this is a one off mastertape done with a studer B62
Its done by a amateur recording engineer , i dont know where he put the mics because you hear a lot of coughing / noise etc from the audience.
Especially after 3 min it gets quit dynamic , i honestly dont see digital or LP do that regardless of cost , those dynamic nuances


View attachment 68385

Your videos remind some of Ron's comments.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Your videos remind some of Ron's comments.

?? regarding

 

[bonzo75]

Henk, for your first two videos can you do one from a longer distance, just to see the difference? Like 4 meters?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Henk, for your first two videos can you do one from a longer distance, just to see the difference? Like 4 meters?

Unfortunately not Ked , i m already siting with my head 50 cm from the back wall .

I could place the speakers 30-60 cm further back thats all

 

[bonzo75]

Unfortunately not Ked , i m already siting with my head 50 cm from the back wall .

I could place the speakers 30-60 cm further back thats all

Ah ok no problem.

 

[Folsom]

?? regarding

He was concerned about the glass. I'm not, but I can hear a similarity to what would concern him a little. It sounds a little high-frequency centered like it's heightened or others are a little less emphasized.

That's just what the video says. As well as anyone I know videos can be very misleading.

 

[andromedaaudio]

He was concerned about the glass. I'm not, but I can hear a similarity to what would concern him a little. It sounds a little high-frequency centered like it's heightened or others are a little less emphasized.

That's just what the video says. As well as anyone I know videos can be very misleading.

Videos can off course be misleading but everyone is entitled to his opinion .
But to me its just right
Plus i have done about 500 measurements from all angles distances to confirm that .
I kept the X over 1 year external with crocodile beaks before i finally soldered it together .
And it stays that way , im sorry no mk 2 .
I d rather question the ancillary equipment / source then the speaker

 

[Folsom]

Videos can off course be misleading but everyone is entitled to his opinion .
But to me its just right
Plus i have done about 500 measurements from all angles distances to confirm that .
I kept the X over 1 year external with crocodile beaks before i finally soldered it together .
And it stays that way , im sorry no mk 2 .
I d rather question the ancillary equipment / source then the speaker

Actually that mirrors my thought. If the speaker measures well, I do not suspect it or the room is related to what I hear.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Room certainly has influence .
But to say it safely, thats mainly under 500 hz freq response wise
Way under the mid / tw x over point
My speakers are designed to sound just right with a bit of effort / moving around.
That you can up the quality by placing them in a custom room speaks for itself but thats for every speaker.
My room can be better for sure

 

[andromedaaudio]

By the way if you read rons comments he said he did not have the feeling that one freq was emphasized over the other , he specifically mentioned that
I think he had more problems with the acoustics in the other place

But lets not talk about speakers to much , Tangs thread is about music

 

[marty]

I have meeting to attend but put it off to the afternoon because some one triggered me to listen stereo. Great to be the boss . Saw Mr. Joe whip mentioned Mel Torme album and in another thread read what Peter wrote about his experience at Rockitman's, so I pull out Mel Torme and Friends Live album. Great great album. I don't remember how I got it. Was it recommended by Gian or was it Gian who sent to me? Anyway if you find one I recommend you buy. This album is like what Peter was talking about. You listen and you just appreciate Mel Torme. He would put a smile on your face and your head would unconsciously move along his singing. The label is Finesse Records W2X 37484. Double LPs.

View attachment 68383


Here is Mel singing Billy Joel's New York State of Mind.

Live at Marty's is a classic. It was recorded in 1981 and for some reason, not released until 1988. When it was recorded, Mel was 55. If you want to hear Mel at his peak, in his mid 30's, try Mel Torme Swings Shubert Alley. With arrangements by Marty Paich, his favorite long-time and brilliant arranger, it shines as well as a perfect album from one of the great vocal giants of that era (along with Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr- both of whom also used Marty Paich quite extensively). The other Mel not to miss, are his intimate and legendary recordings with his long time collaborator George Shearing (piano), particularly on the Concord label. Both are desert island selections for me.

 

[Tango]

Live at Marty's is a classic. It was recorded in 1981 and for some reason, not released until 1988. When it was recorded, Mel was 55. If you want to hear Mel at his peak, in his mid 30's, try Mel Torme Swings Shubert Alley. With arrangements by Marty Paich, his favorite long-time and brilliant arranger, it shines as well as a perfect album from one of the great vocal giants of that era (along with Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr- both of whom also used Marty Paich quite extensively). The other Mel not to miss, are his intimate and legendary recordings with his long time collaborator George Shearing (piano), particularly on the Concord label. Both are desert island selections for me.

Thank you for always giving more knowledge of the music or recording Marty. I think it could make us appreciate a particular musical work even more. For me I could only do the screening and introduce a decent pressing of what could be interesting music to some. Adding more interesting content to the vinyl I introduce as you have been doing only yields pluses to the thread and our hobby.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Blue58]

And if you’re on a crooner trip at the moment Tang try this album with some background info too.

http://mint-audio-restoration.co.uk/stranger/