Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[zerostargeneral]

Dear Tima,

Your insights are noted and appreciated,the political stances of musicians must be considered in context.

The beauty of acquiring the pieces made during this era is we do not hear the politics.

Kindest regards,G.

 

[Tango]

Dear Ked,

Your comments about opening up to wider artists and great but lesser known performances with these rare vinyls are good. This is just like someone find a great gear and tell others about it. But could you please stick to just the performance and sq with your comments and leave out the pricing issue.

Kindregards,
Tang

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry to keep on but just wanted to clarify one point, it is not like recommending gear. Gear that is recommended is seldom rare. You can recommend SME arms all day long. The price fluctuation if it does happen is marginal, especially as usually one person just needs one gear component of the same type. Even those who are using multiple SME arms have very few.

The change in LP prices is large, given the very low number. And given that we need many LPs, not just one, and if each of that, or even if 100 LPs we are seeking go up in price (they will with each purchase), it is around 50 to a 100 grand easy..

 

[microstrip]

Dear Ked,

Your comments about opening up to wider artists and great but lesser known performances with these rare vinyls are good. This is just like someone find a great gear and tell others about it. But could you please stick to just the performance and sq with your comments and leave out the pricing issue.

Kindregards,
Tang

Dear Tang,

I know this is your thread, but why should the pricing issue be forbidden in WBF?

IMHO it is an interesting subject that many of our members will appreciate.

 

[Tango]

Dear Tang,

I know this is your thread, but why should the pricing issue be forbidden in WBF?

IMHO it is an interesting subject that many of our members will appreciate.

Dear Micro,

Actually it is really not my thread. It is Ked's.

I am in no position to prohibit anything. That's Steve and Ron's job.

I am just asking you guys nicely...with a please every time .

I am not into debates..but that will be where it is going head to if we keep talking about price. We already had a lot of that in other threads.

Somebody can always start another thread about the incredible price of rare vinyls in another thread.

Could you recommend me another good Beethoven that has not been mentioned?

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[bonzo75]

See, now he will mention digital recording of the 9th from fremer's review

 

[the sound of Tao]

With respect Tang Beethoven needs no special validation... there are hundreds and hundreds or performances that make Beethoven and Mozart and Rachmaninov and Schubert and even Bruch worth listening to. They are lasting genius... Their legacy is lasting and real. They gave us greatness.

 

[bonzo75]

With respect Tang Beethoven needs no special validation... there are hundreds and hundreds or performances that make Beethoven and Mozart and Rachmaninov and Schubert and even Bruch worth listening to. They are lasting genius... Their legacy is lasting and real. They gave us greatness.

I don't think he was suggesting that Beethoven needs special validation. He was genuinely asking micro since the latter likes Beethoven.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Ked I do love all your various discoveries with regards to performances and music but sometimes, just from the sidelines, it almost seems that only a handful of performances and systems are deemed ever worth listening to, and while I’m the last person on the planet to say there is only one way to nirvana but systems that limit you in musical appreciation might not be the best outcome in the long term if access to music is a goal rather than being a gaol. If Tang is struggling to find any Beethoven that resonates with him then either Beethoven is not for him, it is not yet his time for Beethoven or the way he listens is holding him back from Beethoven. None of this is life ending or important really. Tang is having a fabulous time with music and that is all that counts really.

 

[bonzo75]

Tao i love it, you are like how can someone not like Beethoven. Yes I would react the same way, but one of the reasons is that Tang does not have representative LPs yet (he likes his Heifetz Kreutzer and the rostropovich Richter sonatas (of which he needs a higher pressing at his level). I don't know if he likes the Rubinstein emperor he has had before he started with the originals collecting (i love it). So he probably does not like his YouTube ones and he is not into symphonies yet. Though he did stand up and clap when I played the ode to joy at his

 

[ddk]

Dear Tima,

Your insights are noted and appreciated,the political stances of musicians must be considered in context.

The beauty of acquiring the pieces made during this era is we do not hear the politics.

Kindest regards,G.

I’m still split listening to Wagner, sometimes I can enjoy (tolerate?) a good performance at the opera but generally can’t sit through an LP side without feeling guilt or anger....

david

 

[bonzo75]

I did not say a handful of performances were worth listening to at all. I could go bankrupt just listening to a variety of Beethoven piano concertos and violin concertos, and the symphonies. My point is that many of the good performances are not mentioned on audio forums at all (and there are not enough discussion to discuss performances).

Yes definitely only a handful of systems are worth listening to. And the expensive ones are usually freak ones, otherwise it is tannoys, horns, stats

 

[the sound of Tao]

Well the ode to joy is The ode to joy. But I am really fine with anyone not getting Beethoven... I don’t get Haydn. I hope I don’t get a hidin for sayin it. Just that I’m not sure that the truth of any of the masters is locked up in any one performance or only accessible in just the best systems. Music is fully available on YouTube. Music is about accessibility and great music talks deeply to us to bring us together. It is about where the tribe shares its feeling, its pain, its odes to joy. I do love that this discussion is ultimately about revealing musical performance more than gear.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Tao i love it, you are like how can someone not like Beethoven. Yes I would react the same way, but one of the reasons is that Tang does not have representative LPs yet (he likes his Heifetz Kreutzer and the rostropovich Richter sonatas (of which he needs a higher pressing at his level). I don't know if he likes the Rubinstein emperor he has had before he started with the originals collecting (i love it). So he probably does not like his YouTube ones and he is not into symphonies yet. Though he did stand up and clap when I played the ode to joy at his

Yes, on reflection that is probably true btw. Not get Beethoven... wtf... and it reveals a kind of self aware moment where my walk doesn’t quite match my talk so I’ll leave it there

 

[bonzo75]

Well the ode to joy is The ode to joy. But I am really fine with anyone not getting Beethoven... I don’t get Haydn. I hope I don’t get a hidin for sayin it. Just that I’m not sure that the truth of any of any of the masters is locked up in any one performance or only accessible in just the best systems. Music is about accessibility and great music talks deeply to us to bring us together. It is about where the tribe shares its feeling, its pain, its odes to joy. I do love that this discussion is ultimately about revealing musical performance more than gear.

I think you have completely missed my points then. You can have any system, even a Bose, to listen to music. But if you are in the audiophile hobby, there is a what's best.... And yes, the best systems are not the best in WBF sense, but the most natural. While I love Mike's, yamamura, general's apogee grands, etc, you don't really need them at all They are a luxury..Tannoys, devore orangutans, and other horns are sufficient. Just stay away from the ones that I dare not mention.

Regarding performances, it is more of why people are not aware of Hoelscher, rather than saying you have to listen only to this Hoelscher interpretation. Hope you understand the gravity of having an information system that does not allow people to be aware of such performers...Something is wrong. Tang has been playing performances which are great and which many were not aware of. You have noticed who has been involved in the discussion and who hasn't.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well the ode to joy is The ode to joy. But I am really fine with anyone not getting Beethoven... I don’t get Haydn. I hope I don’t get a Hidin for sayin it. Just that I’m not sure that the truth of any of any of the masters is locked up in any one performance or only accessible in just the best systems. Music is about accessibility and great music talks deeply to us to bring us together. It is about where the tribe shares its feeling, its pain, its odes to joy. I do love that this discussion is ultimately about revealing musical performance more than gear.

Ode To Joy is an interesting case for me.

in the 50's and early 60's, NBC News on TV used Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 2nd Movement, Molto Vivace, as their theme music. i heard it every night. i have to say it grew on me but i never knew it's musical context or anything about Beethoven. years later i connected the dots and it was an early musical touchstone when i was entering classical music. as it is to this day. it grabs me like LZ, the Stones, or the Beatles. likely my #1 symphony movement. it's my music.

these days well recorded digital classical music gets played on my system, and i typically will let it play a few times for the sound and for me to 'get it' somewhat. then i might explore more from that composer. it's so easy to do this with streaming. there are no barriers. i might search a higher rez download once i hear and like the 16/44 streaming file. higher rez does matter to my ears.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I do get 100% where you are coming from Ked, systems that don’t reveal the value of performance aren’t truly good systems. I love that great systems show the innate value of a higher and truer performance and the truly great music. 1000% times infinity.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Could you recommend me another good Beethoven that has not been mentioned?

Kind regards,
Tang

I am not sure that if this conductor has been mentioned in this thread, but my longtime favorite Beethoven is Carlos Kleiber - but probably because I am addicted on his performances of the 5th and the 7th. Even much better recorded versions of these works do not sound as good as these ones to me, it is why I always try to separate music and system. He also recorded some other symphonies with Orfeo.

BTW, the good news for music lovers is that autographed pictures of Carlos Kleiber go for much higher prices than his recordings in Ebay!

See, now he will mention digital recording of the 9th from fremer's review

No, you will do it forever for me!

 

[bonzo75]

I do get 100% where you are coming from Ked, systems that don’t reveal the value of performance aren’t truly good systems. I love that great systems show the innate value of a higher and truer performance and the truly great music. 1000% times infinity.

Very important was the point of information. Keep in mind this is the same information source that leads people to buy these boom boxes with complex crossovers that make everything sound the same. Caesar is right about his herd mentality theory. There are much better systems with LS3/a, stats, harbeth, vintage tannoy, devore's, then many 100k speakers being mentioned here.

 

[bonzo75]

I am not sure that if this conductor has been mentioned in this thread, but my longtime favorite Beethoven is Carlos Kleiber - but probably because I am addicted on his performances of the 5th and the 7th. Even much better recorded versions of these works do not sound as good as these ones to me, it is why I always try to separate music and system. He also recorded some other symphonies with Orfeo.

BTW, the good news for music lovers is that autographed pictures of Carlos Kleiber go for much higher prices than his recordings in Ebay!



No, you will do it forever for me!

Lol.

Yes Kleiber 5th is fantastic.