Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[the sound of Tao]

Ode To Joy is an interesting case for me.

in the 50's and early 60's, NBC News on TV used Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 2nd Movement, Molto Vivace, as their theme music. i heard it every night. i have to say it grew on me but i never knew it's musical context or anything about Beethoven. years later i connected the dots and it was an early musical touchstone when i was entering classical music. as it is to this day. it grabs me like LZ, the Stones, or the Beatles. likely my #1 symphony movement. it's my music.

these days well recorded digital classical music gets played on my system, and i typically will let it play a few times for the sound and for me to 'get it' somewhat. then i might explore more from that composer. it's so easy to do this with streaming. there are no barriers. i might search a higher rez download once i hear and like the 16/44 streaming file. higher rez does matter to my ears.

I loved Beethoven’s 9th from the very first exposure and it is always to me just compelling, it is also my essential music because it relates the feeling of release that joy brings after the periods of the darkness, that joyful expansion is just intoxicating, hearing it is a buzz.

I also get the high res for anything I want to listen again and again and that streaming is all about discovery and lately streaming has gotten better and surprisingly getting closer to hi res but yes it is always good to invest in the music and the performers by buying a copy as well.

 

[Tango]

If Tang is struggling to find any Beethoven that resonates with him then either Beethoven is not for him, it is not yet his time for Beethoven or the way he listens is holding him back from Beethoven. None of this is life ending or important really. Tang is having a fabulous time with music and that is all that counts really.

I don't know why I do not like many Beethoven. For me it does not take a system to like a music. If I don't like what I hear on youtube from the start, I just dont buy. To me Ked is too damn critical and explicit in his choice of listening certain music with certain system. But that's him and I respect that. Actually I do that too. I only listen to my 80's favorites from my car stereo. I passed that time when I bought music because someone said it was a sonic winner. People talk a lot Beethoven. I listened a lot of B's too. But I dont feel anything with most Beethoven. Maybe I take a viagra before listening to B next time. On contrary, a few days ago Folsom suggested me Ernest Bloch. I had never even heard the name before. But the first piece I listened on Youtube, it just grabbed my attention. The past two days I have been searching so many of his works by so many musicians and conductors. I already bought two vinyls of Bloch. If the vinyl quality is not crap I will definitely record and put on youtube to show you guys. If they are crap, I will call the General because I want to have Bloch that I keep listen to. For me I no longer buy a record that sounds super but the music does not attract me to pick up to play again.

Tang

 

[Steve Williams]

Tang

if you ever decide to sell those LP's that you spun once and didn't grab you, I can guaranty you that I and others here would be willing to buy them from you

 

[bonzo75]

I am not critical on music. On systems yes. It is silly the amount of money on many systems and components for the sake of reasons other than sonics (and then claiming the reason for the spend is superior sonics).

On music I am critical on why people are not getting exposed to music. They could listen to lady gaga and that's fine. The critical point for me is when they want to listen to Beethoven or any other composer why don't they get exposed to the best performances without considerable effort?

 

[Tango]

They could listen to lady gaga and that's fine. The critical point for me is when they want to listen to Beethoven or any other composer why don't they get exposed to the best performances without considerable effort?

Ked you hurt me making sarcastic remark of my Lady Gaga.
I really adore her and her talent.

Listen to this interpretation on Paparazzi.

Tang

 

[bonzo75]

That wasn't sarcastic tang. My actual point was you could choose to listen to Gaga or Bach or both. But if you choose Bach, do not listen to random performances. This is not a concern while listening to Gaga.

 

[Tango]

Ode To Joy is an interesting case for me.

in the 50's and early 60's, NBC News on TV used Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 2nd Movement, Molto Vivace, as their theme music. i heard it every night. i have to say it grew on me but i never knew it's musical context or anything about Beethoven. years later i connected the dots and it was an early musical touchstone when i was entering classical music. as it is to this day. it grabs me like LZ, the Stones, or the Beatles. likely my #1 symphony movement. it's my music.

these days well recorded digital classical music gets played on my system, and i typically will let it play a few times for the sound and for me to 'get it' somewhat. then i might explore more from that composer. it's so easy to do this with streaming. there are no barriers. i might search a higher rez download once i hear and like the 16/44 streaming file. higher rez does matter to my ears.

Ok Mike. I will dig into your shoes. May you please recommend me your favorite conductor of the 9.

Thank you sir.
Tang

 

[spiritofmusic]

I can only thank my lucky stars that I started collecting vinyl in the late 70s, and went into overdrive in the 80s. At that point, new lps were £5-7, good quality s/h was mere pennies, and the odd significant collectible like Japanese pressings was c.£15.

Fast fwd two to three decades...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ok Mike. I will dig into your shoes. May you please recommend me your favorite conductor of the 9.

Thank you sir.
Tang

some random thoughts.

i'm at work now, so can't look at my library. i like different performances for different reasons. at first, i went through a period where i liked a more energetic pace, and period instruments. my memory tells me i liked the Nikolas Haroncourt Beethoven 9th particularly well. focused on that second movement.

speaking of all the Beethoven Symphony's, later my tastes broadened to the more majestic Karajan, and also Walter. maybe part of this was my system development, as well as my own evolution.

to me Beethoven carries me away to somewhere i like going.

love his Piano Concertos and Violin Concerto too. but his late String Quartets are likely my most played Beethoven. get the Quarteto Italiano on Philips box set, superb!!!!

 

[dctom]

Performances are personal thing. A good source of classical comparisons is the bbc radio 3 cd review/building a library broadcast on a Saturday morning in the uk. All their recommendations are available on their web site. Of course a lot of them are digital haha however they often include legacy recordings which were produced on vinyl originally.

I was very much a Beethoven man but have gravitated towards Eastern European composers in the last 30 years. Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Dvorak etc although still very much a concerto and sonata fan of Beethoven.

Which brings me to the point I wanted to make, I have a vinyl pressing of Prokofiev’s violin concerto no1 Kyung-Wha-Chung from 1977 which I have listened to many times, I also have a spare copy. The radio three prog’s reviewer musician and Prokofiev expert, preferred a modern Vilde Frank recording to the K-w-C and others under review. I have a number of digital versions including the Frang and prefer the K-w-C. What do I know, maybe it is because I have a vinyl version, but I think it is more to do with having listened to a particular interpretation over a long period of time and have enjoyed the way it has been presented - placement of instruments, intensity of kettle drums, harp far right - I know this recording it is ingrained.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, are we saying in the four odd decades that vinyl was released in the billions, esp the golden age of early 50s to late 60s, that the signature pieces out there, eg Holst/Planets, Bach/Brandenberg Concertos, Rimsky Korsakov/Scheherazade, has a limited number of releases worth collecting/listening to, that these releases are agreed across the vast majority of opinions, and even of these, not every pressing is up to snuff?

 

[Folsom]

Ked, maybe digital will be good when I get around to making a DAC. Truthfully I don't enjoy not spinning vinyl as much as spinning vinyl either way. I have a CD someone mentioned on here that makes LAMM shine like crazy, but it's in my car... It's a great album.

To me there is a little bit of an ethical question like should I spend $ on something like a TT from DDK, or a handful of albums from people whom paid $0.10-0.25 per album? You might say both, and I can't argue that isn't a good argument, but until you're Jeff Bezos, I can come up with other "TT from DDK" examples, too. I'm not actually unlike Tang in that I would like to concentrate on what good performances are, but there is something a bit challenging to the situation when everyone brings up unobtanium albums. I'm slightly guilt of it, too. I recommended that Ernest Bloch and it turns out what I thought wasn't that rare, is... I even offered to send him one of my extra copies because I felt kinda bad for dangling a sweet treat in front of his face that could take a really long time to get to.

 

[Folsom]

So, are we saying in the four odd decades that vinyl was released in the billions, esp the golden age of early 50s to late 60s, that the signature pieces out there, eg Holst/Planets, Bach/Brandenberg Concertos, Rimsky Korsakov/Scheherazade, has a limited number of releases worth collecting/listening to, that these releases are agreed across the vast majority of opinions, and even of these, not every pressing is up to snuff?

Perhaps the fact that there has been so many, has made us snobs. It's hard to go back to a bad one after hearing a good one. But I do see your point. Thing is, I'm not sure I'd listen to classical if it weren't for some of the stellar performances. Different people listen for different things, like you might listen to a lot more if you are a symphony player yourself, and listen for very different things.

 

[spiritofmusic]

But Folsom, is there a commonly accepted, "objective" list. Holst/Planets, I have two copies incl the Previn one from '74. Is this a revered one? If not, why not? Which are? And what's my source of such info? And Ked is also saying, it may not just now be enough to get THE performance, you also need THE pressing. FWIW, I'm feeling the joy of vinyl as playful hobby ebb away at this point.

 

[Folsom]

To be honest I'm not sure what the best Holst Planets is... I have this one. That's the only one I have thus far. I'd have to listen to it again to even know if it's good (it sounded like decent quality first time).



BUT I did find this while searching around. If you do digital I'd buy this right now.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/brahms-cello-sonatas-hungarian-dances-jean-guihen-queyras/31965436

 

[spiritofmusic]

This is my point Folsom. Not that there isn't a "better" Planets. But are you happy with this title? And obv you're not compelled to seek out any others (assuming you ineed enjoy Planets).

I have a couple of box sets of Bach organ works. They sound sublime. Are there commonly agreed better versions?

I will take Ked's and Audiophile Bill's advice to research more, I'm happy to be more picky, within affordability.

 

[dcc]

some random thoughts.

But his late String Quartets are likely my most played Beethoven. get the Quarteto Italiano on Philips box set, superb!!!!

Also consider the version by the Végh Quartet issued by the French label Valois. Though I really cherish the Italiano, the Végh are just on another planet.

For the Haydn quartets, I would recommend the Opus 17, 20, 33 and 76 by the Tatrai Quartet (Hungaroton).

The Italiano are reigning supreme on the Mozart quartets (Philips).

For the Schubert quartets, the Melos are great (DG). The Italiano also recorded the last quartets and there are superb (Philips).

If you are looking for something more complex, the Bartok quartets by the Végh (Astrée or Valois) should also be considered.

 

[bonzo75]

And Ked is also saying, it may not just now be enough to get THE performance, you also need THE pressing. FWIW, I'm feeling the joy of vinyl as playful hobby ebb away at this point.

Nope, not at all..I just said I could get bankrupt on various Beethoven piano concertos, violin concertos and symphonies alone. So there is more than one performance for sure. Yes, performances do have the right pressings, if you want good sonic quality, there is no point buying bad represses or bad reissues (not to say some reissues are not good they are quite good).

My actual point was that why were good performances and performance discussions not much a part of audio forums, as well as the lack of awareness of some performers like Hoelscher (obviously there are music lovers and analogphiles out there not part of our community who are paying a lot of money for him, so if he is not known to you (like he was not to me or to Tang till a few months ago), time to reflect why

 

[bonzo75]

. I have a CD someone mentioned on here that makes LAMM shine like crazy, but it's in my car... It's a great album.

To me there is a little bit of an ethical question like should I spend $ on something like a TT from DDK, or a handful of albums from people whom paid $0.10-0.25 per album? You might say both, and I can't argue that isn't a good argument, but until you're Jeff Bezos, I can come up with other "TT from DDK" examples, too. I'm not actually unlike Tang in that I would like to concentrate on what good performances are, but there is something a bit challenging to the situation when everyone brings up unobtanium albums. I'm slightly guilt of it, too. I recommended that Ernest Bloch and it turns out what I thought wasn't that rare, is... I even offered to send him one of my extra copies because I felt kinda bad for dangling a sweet treat in front of his face that could take a really long time to get to.

To me, the price I would pay the least for is a TT - because if a TT is well set up, even TD 124s like yours can be extremely musical with good pressings. Not that better TTs are not better, but the mileage you get drops. It is a better idea to keep the wrong TTs out

 

[the sound of Tao]

I don't know why I do not like many Beethoven. For me it does not take a system to like a music. If I don't like what I hear on youtube from the start, I just dont buy. To me Ked is too damn critical and explicit in his choice of listening certain music with certain system. But that's him and I respect that. Actually I do that too. I only listen to my 80's favorites from my car stereo. I passed that time when I bought music because someone said it was a sonic winner. People talk a lot Beethoven. I listened a lot of B's too. But I dont feel anything with most Beethoven. Maybe I take a viagra before listening to B next time. On contrary, a few days ago Folsom suggested me Ernest Bloch. I had never even heard the name before. But the first piece I listened on Youtube, it just grabbed my attention. The past two days I have been searching so many of his works by so many musicians and conductors. I already bought two vinyls of Bloch. If the vinyl quality is not crap I will definitely record and put on youtube to show you guys. If they are crap, I will call the General because I want to have Bloch that I keep listen to. For me I no longer buy a record that sounds super but the music does not attract me to pick up to play again.

Tang

Bloch’s Schelomo is a beautiful piece of music... it’s very moving, it’s a piece I also played quite often early on when I was venturing into the classics as well. Great choice for listening.