Cable Modems

[Swisstrips]

No on P3 for 2 devices. Yes on P8 for 2 devices.

I'm not much of an EE, can you explain a bit more on this? I'm genuinely curious because I'm wanting to power at least 2 maybe 3 devices in my network rack.

 

[marty]

At this point I'd like to find out what's out there that people have had success with. That will help me decide how much I want to spend.

I've looked at the Paul Hynes SR4 having heard great things about his LPS. And I read here that nenon is using a Sean Jacobs DC3 for the EdgeRouter. Would either of those be overkill for the SB8200, and a better choice for the EdgeRouter X SFP?

And I just remembered the UltraCap LPS-1.2 as I have one powering an SOtM sNH-10G switch. Would that be a good choice for the SB8200?

Also... are power connector barrel lengths a variable? It looked like the barrel length on the SB8200 connector was a bit shorter than the length on the iFi connector, and perhaps that's the reason it did not work.

Most linear power supplies are ridiculously overpriced. Many if not most are made in China so why not go to the source that many OEM's use?

Here's a nice inexpensive supply for about 50 bucks.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024551706.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5aae4c4d7OVZLX
Comes with 2.5mm barrel or a 2.1mm barrel on request

There are many others, some of which specify they mimic the circuit of a Swiss Studer LPS.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400..._expid=176dcf85-67b7-487a-b3b1-84feb784b3c0-9

For 50 bucks? Would love it if someone compared some of these to the high priced spread. If you don't like it, just throw it out!

 

[Kingrex]

I'm not much of an EE, can you explain a bit more on this? I'm genuinely curious because I'm wanting to power at least 2 maybe 3 devices in my network rack.

I though I saw a P3 rated as 6 amps which I thought was a typo. If it is truly 3 amp x 3 amp then you could power 2 devices. If it is 3 amp divided in half for 1.5 amp per rail then no, you cant. I thought the P8 was the only duel rail Keces unit with 4x4 amps. Things change all the time.

Don't fiddle with the notion of peak power. I have a 3 amp HD Plex and I did the watt calculations of my modem and router. They would be using about 2.5 amps together. It runs for about a week, then it starts to drop out all the time. Then it just pretty much stops. As soon as I added a second 3 amp LPS, all my dropout issues went away.

Give you digital front end gear good clean power. You can put a junk $80 lPS on ebay and it and it will probably sound better than the SMPS Wall wart. Maybe. There are a bunch of test people did with inexpensive LPS on Audiophile Style. Some are suppose to be pretty decent, but I think the ones that faired well were around $200 and up. Spending $700 and up is not necessary in my mind. Unless you got 2 rails x 4 amps. But I have not tried that many brands. What I can say is a good friend with a reference level system puts power cords from the wall to his LPS that cost more than the power supply themselves, and swears it makes them sing. For whatever that is worth.

I have Ching Cheng to my LPS. I have a pair of porter port outlets in a heavy double duplex box fed with an OFC cord from my panel feeding them. I also have an Addpower Electraclear in the 4th outlet in that box.

 

[Swisstrips]

I though I saw a P3 rated as 6 amps which I thought was a typo. If it is truly 3 amp x 3 amp then you could power 2 devices. If it is 3 amp divided in half for 1.5 amp per rail then no, you cant. I thought the P8 was the only duel rail Keces unit with 4x4 amps. Things change all the time.

Don't fiddle with the notion of peak power. I have a 3 amp HD Plex and I did the watt calculations of my modem and router. They would be using about 2.5 amps together. It runs for about a week, then it starts to drop out all the time. Then it just pretty much stops. As soon as I added a second 3 amp LPS, all my dropout issues went away.

Give you digital front end gear good clean power. You can put a junk $80 lPS on ebay and it and it will probably sound better than the SMPS Wall wart. Maybe. There are a bunch of test people did with inexpensive LPS on Audiophile Style. Some are suppose to be pretty decent, but I think the ones that faired well were around $200 and up. Spending $700 and up is not necessary in my mind. Unless you got 2 rails x 4 amps. But I have not tried that many brands. What I can say is a good friend with a reference level system puts power cords from the wall to his LPS that cost more than the power supply themselves, and swears it makes them sing. For whatever that is worth.

I have Ching Cheng to my LPS. I have a pair of porter port outlets in a heavy double duplex box fed with an OFC cord from my panel feeding them. I also have an Addpower Electraclear in the 4th outlet in that box.

Gotcha. My modem and router spec out at about 2A each and the P3 says "Dual output provide 3A for each " so that tells me it should be plenty for 2 devices running at 2A - I could be wrong though.

I don't stream (by choice, local library) and my network rack in utility room has a UPS the network devices plug into, so I'm not sure how much a difference getting LPS's for these will make, but worth a try.

 

[Kingrex]

UPS can be noisy switch mode devices converting dc to ac and back. I would not power my audio from it.

If you only play internal files your not as affected as if you were streaming. But there is a lot of noise that is on the network cable tied to your system.

You might better benefit from a gigafoil to isolate your audio from the data utility.

If you do usa a gigafoil, the router and medem in the UPS will probably be fine.

 

[wil]

Kingrex, In your opinion, where in the following setup do you think the Giagafoil is optimally located? Just after modem or just before server?



FO Modem > copper > GIGA > cop > FMC > FO > FMC > cop > Server > DAC

or

FO Modem > copper > FMC > FO > FMC > cop > GIGA > cop > Server > DAC

 

[kswanson27]

I'm not Kingrex but I have mine just before the streamer connected with a very short ethernet cable.

 

[Kingrex]

Kingrex, In your opinion, where in the following setup do you think the Giagafoil is optimally located? Just after modem or just before server?



FO Modem > copper > GIGA > cop > FMC > FO > FMC > cop > Server > DAC

or

FO Modem > copper > FMC > FO > FMC > cop > GIGA > cop > Server > DAC

Just before the server.

Take a look at Audioshark. Ultrafast did a whole write up on the digital backbone. Its long and extensive. Probably overkill for just internal file useage.

Rex

 

[Swisstrips]

UPS can be noisy switch mode devices converting dc to ac and back. I would not power my audio from it.

If you only play internal files your not as affected as if you were streaming. But there is a lot of noise that is on the network cable tied to your system.

You might better benefit from a gigafoil to isolate your audio from the data utility.

If you do usa a gigafoil, the router and medem in the UPS will probably be fine.

Yep, all my network gear, NAS is in a rack in utility room (along with servers) and I run fiber from a manged switch to dedicated listening room. Gotta have UPS for network gear, NAS etc.. I know there are some UPS's that use modified sign wave v.s. pure sign wave. I'll probably try out the P3 or something equiv.

 

[Kingrex]

Yep, all my network gear, NAS is in a rack in utility room (along with servers) and I run fiber from a manged switch to dedicated listening room. Gotta have UPS for network gear, NAS etc.. I know there are some UPS's that use modified sign wave v.s. pure sign wave. I'll probably try out the P3 or something equiv.

I get the need for a ups. Especially if you have a home business or server. The gigafoil will do a lot. If you have a nice stereo, springing for a good LPS to power the gigafoil will improve things that much more. Especially if you stream. You could also do a uptone audio ether regen. I hear its darn close between the two. I think the gigafoil nudged it out. If you did not have an audio ethernet switch and were building out a system, I might go Uptone. At some point your splitting hairs. The real goal is to isolate the server from the data utility noise. Oddly, even if your playing vinyl, your sound is negativley impacted by noise from the data utiluty as it creaps into the system. It can also become a ground loop that is really annoying.

 

[wil]

Just before the server.



Rex

I looks like I'm going to be running fiber into my Server. So I thought I might put it somewhere in my ethernet upstream of the fiber.

 

[Kingrex]

I looks like I'm going to be running fiber into my Server. So I thought I might put it somewhere in my ethernet upstream of the fiber.

Fiber is great. What device is handling the fiber. You may want to look at the power supply to that device. That may be all you really need. Your just internal file play, correct. A good power supply to the fiber switch or router may not even be needed. If you start streaming, the power supply may become more important.

 

[wil]

Fiber is great. What device is handling the fiber. You may want to look at the power supply to that device. That may be all you really need. Your just internal file play, correct. A good power supply to the fiber switch or router may not even be needed. If you start streaming, the power supply may become more important.

I'm actually 99% streaming off Qobuz.

I seem to have stumbled on to the best sound I've had in my system to date with the following set up:

Fiber> Att modem/router> 100' copper> Cisco switch> AQ Diamond copper> Gigafoil> EtherRegen A side > Fiber > Takio Extreme Server> .....

The key appears to be the insertion of the Gigafoil just before the EtherRegen.

 

[Kingrex]

I'm actually 99% streaming off Qobuz.

I seem to have stumbled on to the best sound I've had in my system to date with the following set up:

Fiber> Att modem/router> 100' copper> Cisco switch> AQ Diamond copper> Gigafoil> EtherRegen A side > Fiber > Takio Extreme Server> .....

The key appears to be the insertion of the Gigafoil just before the EtherRegen.

Thats a good looking chain. The cysco switch is the only weak link. But, the gigafoil and etherregen may be fixing most all the issues. How long have you had the gigafoil and etherregen. Do you have any LPS to them. What pieces made the biggest impact.

 

[Swisstrips]

I get the need for a ups. Especially if you have a home business or server. The gigafoil will do a lot. If you have a nice stereo, springing for a good LPS to power the gigafoil will improve things that much more. Especially if you stream. You could also do a uptone audio ether regen. I hear its darn close between the two. I think the gigafoil nudged it out. If you did not have an audio ethernet switch and were building out a system, I might go Uptone. At some point your splitting hairs. The real goal is to isolate the server from the data utility noise. Oddly, even if your playing vinyl, your sound is negativley impacted by noise from the data utiluty as it creaps into the system. It can also become a ground loop that is really annoying.

The gigafoil does seem interesting, but again I don't stream (by choice, use local lib, 2 server with Roon and HQP). I may look into it.

I did have an ER, but I only noticed an improvement when using copper > I tested it with my fiber setup and then ran a 50' cat6 to my listening room as a test (copper only, no fiber). I concluded if using only copper, that's where it is most effective (IME). With fiber, didn't do anything and if there was a change, would be splitting hairs. Although I wish I would have tried inserting it at various spots in the chain (before/after router etc...as a test). However, due to the ER's 100MB limit (which is on purpose/as designed) it wouldn't be a long term solution in those spots. I may look into the gigafoil, but not sure if it would make much of an improvement in my setup.

Another option that would be worth trying is a running a Sonore optical module right out of my switch (6" copper > to OM) instead of going direct fiber from my switch.

 

[ray-dude]

To share some recent experiences with this group, I got jealous of all the cable modem folks that were able to swap out their ISP provided equipment so I did a little research and hacking (ATT fiber requires you to use their ONT and gateway/router). I am currently running a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 10x directly connected to the ATT optical network terminal (ONT), but powered by high quality supplies. It has had a significant positive impact on SQ (I was very surprised, esp. the impact of powering the ONT with a DXPWR LPS).

For those wanting to experiment, the gateway/router does WPA authentication against the ONT to get on the ATT network. The ATT subscription is managed through the ONT (you can't steal service), but the WPA authentication is to force teh gateway/router to be the ATT provided one.

If you have a dumb switch sitting around, you can try the following. Get the MAC address of your ATT gateway/router and clone it to your own router (in my case, my EdgeRouter). Plug the ethernet from the ONT into the dumb switch and your ATT provided gateway/router into the dumb switch, leaving your router disconnected. Once everything is up and the authentication is done, unplug the ATT router and plug your router in. Since they have the same MAC address, the ONT will happily allow it on the network.

If you want to go next level, you can also install WPA certs on your router, and have this WPA authentication happen without having to do the swap trick or having the extra switch in the chain (this is what I do). That is a more involved process, but it eliminates a switch and gives a more direct signal path.

In this configuration, my music network becomes fiber from the street -> ONT (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> EdgeRouter (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> Sonore opticalModule (LPS powered) -> fiber -> Taiko Extreme

Extremely clean (no pun intended). LPS's end to end make a surprising impact in my chain. As a bonus, it has moved my tangle of LPS's and cables from my family room to my bedroom closet (at least a bonus for me...others are not so happy about all the switches and power supplies and cables that have taken over the closet

Note that in these configurations, your router is exposed to the public internet as your internet gateway. Take care that your firewalls are set up appropriately, etc.

 

[wil]

I tried a pair of Sonore OM's and I couldn't get them to work in my system but for a few hours. It may be because I'm using single mode fiber and they designed the OM's around multi mode fiber. They did sound good while they worked but I'd advise only using multi mode with them.

 

[ray-dude]

Interesting. Mine is working great with single mode, but I have a single OM connected to an optical NIC. I'm using a pair of Planet Tech MGB-TLX transceivers, one in the opticalModule, and the other plugged into the StarTech optical NIC in the Extreme. I have not tried two opticalModules though

 

[wil]

Thats a good looking chain. The cysco switch is the only weak link. But, the gigafoil and etherregen may be fixing most all the issues. How long have you had the gigafoil and etherregen. Do you have any LPS to them. What pieces made the biggest impact.

My plan is to replace the Cisco weak Link with the Melco S100 switch.
I have the eRegen on a Keces P8 LPS and the Gigafoil on a Small Green Computer LPS.

Though I haven't gone back and forth listening with the Gigafoil in and out, my sense is that it made a significant difference. It's as if all the ingredients in the chain came together and the music started really sounding right. Hardly scientific but I like what I'm hearing.

I may also have stumbled upon an improvement by retiring the 100' fiber run (when I lost connection from Modem to Cisco) and going back to copper. That may be resulting in the right balance with the fiber I have from the eRegen to the Server. Experimental and (accidental) cooking!

 

[wil]

To share some recent experiences with this group, I got jealous of all the cable modem folks that were able to swap out their ISP provided equipment so I did a little research and hacking (ATT fiber requires you to use their ONT and gateway/router). I am currently running a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 10x directly connected to the ATT optical network terminal (ONT), but powered by high quality supplies. It has had a significant positive impact on SQ (I was very surprised, esp. the impact of powering the ONT with a DXPWR LPS).

For those wanting to experiment, the gateway/router does WPA authentication against the ONT to get on the ATT network. The ATT subscription is managed through the ONT (you can't steal service), but the WPA authentication is to force teh gateway/router to be the ATT provided one.

If you have a dumb switch sitting around, you can try the following. Get the MAC address of your ATT gateway/router and clone it to your own router (in my case, my EdgeRouter). Plug the ethernet from the ONT into the dumb switch and your ATT provided gateway/router into the dumb switch, leaving your router disconnected. Once everything is up and the authentication is done, unplug the ATT router and plug your router in. Since they have the same MAC address, the ONT will happily allow it on the network.

If you want to go next level, you can also install WPA certs on your router, and have this WPA authentication happen without having to do the swap trick or having the extra switch in the chain (this is what I do). That is a more involved process, but it eliminates a switch and gives a more direct signal path.

In this configuration, my music network becomes fiber from the street -> ONT (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> EdgeRouter (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> Sonore opticalModule (LPS powered) -> fiber -> Taiko Extreme

Extremely clean (no pun intended). LPS's end to end make a surprising impact in my chain. As a bonus, it has moved my tangle of LPS's and cables from my family room to my bedroom closet (at least a bonus for me...others are not so happy about all the switches and power supplies and cables that have taken over the closet

Note that in these configurations, your router is exposed to the public internet as your internet gateway. Take care that your firewalls are set up appropriately, etc.

Raydude, Nice work! This is particularly interesting to me as I'm also stuck with the ATT modem/router Gateway.

I've heard the upcoming Gateway has a combined Modem/Router/Ont in one box. Do you think you could still pull off this mod with the all in one box?