Cable Modems

Thuan

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Apr 20, 2020
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I tried a pair of Sonore OM's and I couldn't get them to work in my system but for a few hours. It may be because I'm using single mode fiber and they designed the OM's around multi mode fiber. They did sound good while they worked but I'd advise only using multi mode with them.
That doesn't sound right. My pair of OMs worked fine with Sonore's multimode transceivers/cables and single mode counterparts. They didn't sound right if mismatched (single mode transceivers and multimode fiber cable). But if matched, Sonore's multimode gear sounds good but Planet USA's single mode gear even better.
 
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wil

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Jul 22, 2015
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Right, it's probably another issue in my case. But the people at Sonore told me they intend their OM's to be with Multi and were acting like I was doing something out of line by using single mode. They hadn't even ever tested with Single which seems odd to me.
 

Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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To share some recent experiences with this group, I got jealous of all the cable modem folks that were able to swap out their ISP provided equipment so I did a little research and hacking (ATT fiber requires you to use their ONT and gateway/router). I am currently running a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 10x directly connected to the ATT optical network terminal (ONT), but powered by high quality supplies. It has had a significant positive impact on SQ (I was very surprised, esp. the impact of powering the ONT with a DXPWR LPS).

For those wanting to experiment, the gateway/router does WPA authentication against the ONT to get on the ATT network. The ATT subscription is managed through the ONT (you can't steal service), but the WPA authentication is to force teh gateway/router to be the ATT provided one.

If you have a dumb switch sitting around, you can try the following. Get the MAC address of your ATT gateway/router and clone it to your own router (in my case, my EdgeRouter). Plug the ethernet from the ONT into the dumb switch and your ATT provided gateway/router into the dumb switch, leaving your router disconnected. Once everything is up and the authentication is done, unplug the ATT router and plug your router in. Since they have the same MAC address, the ONT will happily allow it on the network.

If you want to go next level, you can also install WPA certs on your router, and have this WPA authentication happen without having to do the swap trick or having the extra switch in the chain (this is what I do). That is a more involved process, but it eliminates a switch and gives a more direct signal path.

In this configuration, my music network becomes fiber from the street -> ONT (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> EdgeRouter (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> Sonore opticalModule (LPS powered) -> fiber -> Taiko Extreme

Extremely clean (no pun intended). LPS's end to end make a surprising impact in my chain. As a bonus, it has moved my tangle of LPS's and cables from my family room to my bedroom closet (at least a bonus for me...others are not so happy about all the switches and power supplies and cables that have taken over the closet ;)

Note that in these configurations, your router is exposed to the public internet as your internet gateway. Take care that your firewalls are set up appropriately, etc.

Way out of my pay scale. but way to go. I wish I could hack and streamline. I have to use off the shelf products and try to optimize as best I can.
 

Thuan

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Apr 20, 2020
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Many thanks Xymox for the spot on recommendation. The Arris SB8200 arrived today, replaced my long time Comcast all in one cable modem/wifi router, and I didn't need A/B test to tell the difference in SQ even with Internet on. There's just more life, more meat to the music. The Xfinity supplied modem is going back to Comcast for money saving. Ghent Y-cable has been ordered for sharing LPSU between pfsense firewall and SB8200. All in all, a very nice and easily discernible SQ improvement.

Here's what I've found. If I connect PC directly to SB8200's either Ethernet port, there's no internet. If I hardwire either port to a firewall (pfsense SG-3100) and connect to PCs from there, Internet then is available. I don't know whether it's my lack of network background or defective SB8200 or an incomplete Xfinity activation, but it's weird. Well at least I managed to get internet somehow.

Any tips on how to get it resolved?
 
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DeadWax

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Apr 11, 2020
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So I have an Arris SB8200 and my service provides DOCSIS3.1 on download. My current d/l speed is just under 300Mbps. Is there any reason to believe that the sound quality from streaming Qobuz will improve if I increase to 1 Gbps service? I think I can get that for $10 more per month but not sure if that's a total waste. My current speed seems to handle my household device traffic just fine. Thoughts?
 

Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
393
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I did not hear a difference going to gigabit from 300 or 500. I forget which. Getting the SB8200 and a separate Asus router I immediately heard. Adding the LPS to those at a later date I also heard. I also heard switching from a netgear switch to a dedicated audiophile switch with LPS.
 
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DeadWax

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Apr 11, 2020
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I did not hear a difference going to gigabit from 300 or 500. I forget which. Getting the SB8200 and a separate Asus router I immediately heard. Adding the LPS to those at a later date I also heard. I also heard switching from a netgear switch to a dedicated audiophile switch with LPS.
Thanks...and that's what I suspected if there was no bandwidth issue. I too immediately heard a difference going from an old Netgear modem to the SB8200 and I noticed an improvement a couple of years ago when I added a LPS to Netgear R7000 router. Now I'm thinking that router is due for an upgrade!

I would welcome any thoughts/experiences from folks on router upgrades. I'd like to stick to one that allows me to continue to use my 12V, 2A LPS. I suspect most should.
 
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wil

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Jul 22, 2015
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To share some recent experiences with this group, I got jealous of all the cable modem folks that were able to swap out their ISP provided equipment so I did a little research and hacking (ATT fiber requires you to use their ONT and gateway/router). I am currently running a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 10x directly connected to the ATT optical network terminal (ONT), but powered by high quality supplies. It has had a significant positive impact on SQ (I was very surprised, esp. the impact of powering the ONT with a DXPWR LPS).

For those wanting to experiment, the gateway/router does WPA authentication against the ONT to get on the ATT network. The ATT subscription is managed through the ONT (you can't steal service), but the WPA authentication is to force teh gateway/router to be the ATT provided one.

If you have a dumb switch sitting around, you can try the following. Get the MAC address of your ATT gateway/router and clone it to your own router (in my case, my EdgeRouter). Plug the ethernet from the ONT into the dumb switch and your ATT provided gateway/router into the dumb switch, leaving your router disconnected. Once everything is up and the authentication is done, unplug the ATT router and plug your router in. Since they have the same MAC address, the ONT will happily allow it on the network.

If you want to go next level, you can also install WPA certs on your router, and have this WPA authentication happen without having to do the swap trick or having the extra switch in the chain (this is what I do). That is a more involved process, but it eliminates a switch and gives a more direct signal path.

In this configuration, my music network becomes fiber from the street -> ONT (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> EdgeRouter (LPS powered) -> ethernet -> Sonore opticalModule (LPS powered) -> fiber -> Taiko Extreme

Extremely clean (no pun intended). LPS's end to end make a surprising impact in my chain. As a bonus, it has moved my tangle of LPS's and cables from my family room to my bedroom closet (at least a bonus for me...others are not so happy about all the switches and power supplies and cables that have taken over the closet ;)

Note that in these configurations, your router is exposed to the public internet as your internet gateway. Take care that your firewalls are set up appropriately, etc.
.
Thanks for sharing this, Ray_Dude. I'm going to try to find someone local to help me configure this.

Att is coming out with a new Gateway, the BGW320-505. It has an integrated ONT. I'm guessing your mod would be more difficult or impossible on the 320?
 

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Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
Most linear power supplies are ridiculously overpriced. Many if not most are made in China so why not go to the source that many OEM's use?

Here's a nice inexpensive supply for about 50 bucks.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024551706.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5aae4c4d7OVZLX
Comes with 2.5mm barrel or a 2.1mm barrel on request

There are many others, some of which specify they mimic the circuit of a Swiss Studer LPS.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400..._expid=176dcf85-67b7-487a-b3b1-84feb784b3c0-9

For 50 bucks? Would love it if someone compared some of these to the high priced spread. If you don't like it, just throw it out!

For any digital, the LPS should be fast-responding. This means that fast changes in current demand should be met with fast changes in regulation so that the voltage does not droop.

Most LPS from China are not fast enough IME. The only ones I have tested that are fast enough for digital are the SBooster and the Dynamo that I sell with my products, not stand-alone. The Dynamo uses a transformer that costs me more than $50. The regulator is a modified Hynes reg.

I use a Dynamo with my Switch, Router, converters etc.. I don't use it with my cable modem because it is AC powered. Probably would not make any difference anyway.

You are better off to spend your money on a good switch like the SOtM and power it with a fast LPS rather than wasting money on the Modem. If it's too expensive, then use the AQVOX or Etherstream switches etc..
 
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Thuan

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Apr 20, 2020
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What is your price point for an LPS with a good DC cable?
Sorry for the delayed answer, but I didn't try what described below until today.

I have several iFi iPowers varied from 5v, 9v, and 12v. Since the 12v unit is feeding an Wifi router, and the SB8200 arrived lately, today I tried the 9v variance and it worked. As the iPower's tip is 2.1mm which doesn't fit the SB8200, I use a 2.1/2.5 adapter. I guess that's why yours didn't work without a 2.5mm adapter.

Of course a 12v LPSU would be better, but at least for now it's better than the supplied walwart.

P.S. By a mistake I replied to this message instead of JM's below message re: iFi Ipower 12v feeding the SB8200. Sorry for the boo-boo.
 
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Thuan

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Apr 20, 2020
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I want to purchase a linear power supply for the SB8200 Modem and EdgeRouter X SFP, but have no experience with LPS.

While doing research online, I remembered I had an iFi iPower 12v in the closet. It's not an LPS, but thought why not replace the standard SB8200 wall wart until something nice arrives. The specs matched — 12V, center positive connector, and 2.5mm — but when I connected the iFi the SB8200 did not receive power.

So now I'm a bit nervous that I don't know what I'm doing. And before I attempt to purchase some expensive LPS units, I thought I would ask what others are using or would recommend?

Thanks for any advice!

See the above message as my delayed response. It's weird your 12v doesn't work; even my iFi iPower 9v works, with a 2.5mm adapter.
 

2ndLiner

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2015
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I am trying to decide which way to go from my present internet setup. I have a fabulous switch (M12 Gold) and streamer (dCS Vivaldi One and Vivaldi Clock). I am currently using DSL with separate modem and router. I have the option of going with ATT Fibre employing an Adtran 411 ONT and a router of my choosing or Xfinity Cable which would allow me to use a modem such as the ARRIS SB8200 and a router of my choosing. However, Xfinity does not support updates for the ARRIS modem which Xymox previously stressed is critical. NAIVE QUESTION ALERT --- Would buying a new ARRIS SB8200 annually solve that issue? Any ideas are graciously welcomed!
 

wil

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Jul 22, 2015
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I am trying to decide which way to go from my present internet setup. I have a fabulous switch (M12 Gold) and streamer (dCS Vivaldi One and Vivaldi Clock). I am currently using DSL with separate modem and router. I have the option of going with ATT Fibre employing an Adtran 411 ONT and a router of my choosing or Xfinity Cable which would allow me to use a modem such as the ARRIS SB8200 and a router of my choosing. However, Xfinity does not support updates for the ARRIS modem which Xymox previously stressed is critical. NAIVE QUESTION ALERT --- Would buying a new ARRIS SB8200 annually solve that issue? Any ideas are graciously welcomed!

Att is allowing you to use your own router? My experience is you must use their Gateway Modem/Router.
 

2ndLiner

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2015
34
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98
My small local provider, Sonic, utilizes the ATT fibre network. I spoke with a sales person at Sonic a couple of days ago who assured me that I could use my own router. I will contact them again to confirm this.
 

2ndLiner

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Dec 16, 2015
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98
Soooo, after more research it turns out that my local internet company, Sonic, offers fibre optic, provides the ONT, and allows you to use whatever modem and router you choose. Unfortunately, their network does not extend to our part of town which leaves ATT as my only option. ATT provides the ONT and as best as their sales person could figure out offers either the PACE 5268 or ARRIS BGW210-700, both of which are modem/router combos. Any experience, advice, etc., would greatly appreciated!
 

wil

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Jul 22, 2015
366
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There is a workaround to use your own router. Ray-Dude details it on one of the threads here. I'm going to try it with the help of a friend who is a tech guy-- not something I'd be up to try on my own!
 

VT Skier

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Feb 24, 2011
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MRV, Vermont
If anyone has DSL advice, I would love to hear it. Our house is pretty far out in the woods, so internet via phone lines is our only option at this point.
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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For any digital, the LPS should be fast-responding. This means that fast changes in current demand should be met with fast changes in regulation so that the voltage does not droop.

Most LPS from China are not fast enough IME. The only ones I have tested that are fast enough for digital are the SBooster and the Dynamo that I sell with my products, not stand-alone. The Dynamo uses a transformer that costs me more than $50. The regulator is a modified Hynes reg.

I use a Dynamo with my Switch, Router, converters etc.. I don't use it with my cable modem because it is AC powered. Probably would not make any difference anyway.

You are better off to spend your money on a good switch like the SOtM and power it with a fast LPS rather than wasting money on the Modem. If it's too expensive, then use the AQVOX or Etherstream switches etc..

Nonsense. Define "fast". Show me the data.The SBooster is made off shore and looks to be at the same level of manufacture as many of those made in China that you eschew. What are the components in the SBooster, or yours for that matter? The readily available Chinese LPS often have have Talema or Noratel transformers, choke filters, high speed Shottky diode rectifiers, high quality regulator regulator IC LT1085 (or LT1317), high quality caps and most importantly, extremely low level DC ripple. The current requirements you refer to are palty as these are not power amplifiers. These power supplies may not be the equivalent of far more expensive brands such as Paul Hynes, but when you make claims that they are "not fast enough", it would be more convincing if you cited some credible data. I have every expectation that you units are quite good, as is the SBooster. But denigrating other products without meaningful data or direct comparative testing falls on very skeptical ears.
 
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Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
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Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
Nonsense. Define "fast". Show me the data.The SBooster is made off shore and looks to be at the same level of manufacture as many of those made in China that you eschew. What are the components in the SBooster, or yours for that matter? The readily available Chinese LPS often have have Talema or Noratel transformers, choke filters, high speed Shottky diode rectifiers, high quality regulator regulator IC LT1085 (or LT1317), high quality caps and most importantly, extremely low level DC ripple. The current requirements you refer to are palty as these are not power amplifiers. These power supplies may not be the equivalent of far more expensive brands such as Paul Hynes, but when you make claims that they are "not fast enough", it would be more convincing if you cited some credible data. I have every expectation that you units are quite good, as is the SBooster. But denigrating other products without meaningful data or direct comparative testing falls on very skeptical ears.

Fast means that the regulation responds fast enough to keep the power from drooping when a high-frequency load event occurs. Believe it or not Paul Hynes supplies are not fast enough for my digital, so I mod them. I know what I'm talking about here.

The "high quality" monolithic regulators you mention are not fast enough. I've tried them. There are only now a couple of monolithic linear regulators available from TI that are fast enough, and they are even marginal. High quality decoupling caps don't help much. They are necessary, but not sufficient. Fast regulation in a LPS is the ONLY thing that works for digital, including powering routers, switches, USB converters, Ethernet renderers, DAC's, re-clockers and the like.
 
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