Magico M9

[HenryD]

Lets call a spade a spade Bobvin
When u had your Wilsons and no association with a dealer u were posting all over the place how great your Wilsons were. Also your ARC gear.
Now its all Rapsody gear...
(And BTW, here in the states it's gear or components, not "kit").....

U ought to consider backing it down several notches as your credibility, which started with your room build and was very good is becoming very suspect

Why so nasty?? Aren't you and MF Magico owners? Is the idea that the M9 is an incredible loudspeaker is so far-fetched?

 

[bryans]

It is all great fun. If I am able to earn a little $$ and continue to fund my passion — hooray!

I'm with you on this!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Lets call a spade a spade Bobvin
When u had your Wilsons and no association with a dealer u were posting all over the place how great your Wilsons were. Also your ARC gear.
Now its all Rapsody gear...
(And BTW, here in the states it's gear or components, not "kit").....

U ought to consider backing it down several notches as your credibility, which started with your room build and was very good is becoming very suspect

I think this is way unnecessarily snarky. But I understand and I respect the suspicion. Bob now has an apparent conflict of interest.

I have a truly different take on it.

As we all know -- or as we all learn, hopefully, over time in this hobby -- we don't know what we don't know until we experience something better. This is the exact dramatic transformation PeterA underwent from Magico plus Pass to vintage plus Lamm. I credit Peter fully for being intellectually honest enough to declare directly that he literally didn't know what he didn't know -- until he visited David in Utah.

I always was puzzled why Bob thought the Alexia was as fantastic as he reported repeatedly. I think Bob (sorry Bob!) was a relatively inexperienced audiophile in terms of the breadth and the depth of his loudspeaker auditioning experience.

I believe that my ears would find each of the three speakers Bob now has (Alsyvox, Bayz, Diesis) more emotionally engaging and able to achieve higher suspensions of disbelief than his old Alexia. I am very confident I subjectively would prefer each of them over the Alexia.

But now that Bob is selling these three speakers, his (I believe truly genuine new) preferences for the new speakers appear suspect. I understand this suspicion; I agree with the apparent conflict of interest. I just don't agree with the conclusion.

I would bet that a majority of neutral and honest auditioners would prefer one or more of the Alsyvox or the Bayz or the Diesis over the Alexia.

PS: Pilium I know absolutely nothing about. I have told Bob directly that I personally would prefer to hear all three of his new speakers on his (now departed) ARC 160M monos.

 

[jeff1225]

Yes, I was very proud to have assembled a great system with real synergy, and many folks who visited loved that system. It was not easy to sell everything off, but I was due for a speaker upgrade. Last year saw the arrival of the Etsuro Gold cartridge, a bespoke LFD phono cable, and the CS Port phono stage. My wife noticed the dent in the account and the idea of a speaker upgrade had her telling me our retirement probably wouldn’t tolerate $50k hits every year for audio upgrades. When I mentioned to my wife about the Rhapsody Listening Rooms she said “you should do that… maybe a way to fund your hobby going forward.”

People will draw their own conclusions about my involvement and passion for this hobby. I am OK with that. The new Pilium ”kit” I am enjoying is a very large step forward in sound quality vs my ARC kit, which I was very fond of. I do not regret having made the change. I am thrilled to have the Diesis Roma in-house, they are everything I imagined after my brief visit hearing them @ Rhapsody a couple years ago. I wrote on this forum about that experience. They were in my short list for speaker upgrade. The Alsyvox are something completely new for me, and I am amazed at their sound. I would never have imagined a way to compare these speakers side by side in my own room. Add the Bayz — again amazing sound — two friends here have MBL speakers so it is educational to compare.

It is all great fun. If I am able to earn a little $$ and continue to fund my passion — hooray! If not I will choose a favorite and sell the rest. There is nothing yet that says this is going to work out.

And I will continue to post my impressions as I go about living with all these additions to my rig. You and others can decide for yourselves whether or not my comments are credible.

As for Wilson speakers — I still love them, but understand now that my Alexia had limitations and weaknesses (as all speakers do.) Some of those I was aware of, others apparent only by hearing something better. Before hearing M9s, I had only heard Magicos a couple of times and preferred the extra dynamic slam of Wilsons. I posted elsewhere about hearing the M9s.

Bob,
I'm all for you monetizing your hobby and personally think it's more honest than many "reviewers" who review products to get them free or at a sizable discount. Do you physically set up the systems you sell through your listening room?

 

[bonzo75]

Lets call a spade a spade Bobvin
When u had your Wilsons and no association with a dealer u were posting all over the place how great your Wilsons were. Also your ARC gear.
Now its all Rapsody gear...
(And BTW, here in the states it's gear or components, not "kit").....

U ought to consider backing it down several notches as your credibility, which started with your room build and was very good is becoming very suspect

I don't think that is accurate. He had his wilsons, and that time less experience (as most Alexia owners) I remember after hearing the diesis he immediately did a double take and it became evident he lost interest in the Wilsons. This was quite before he became a Rhapsody dealer and to me is not surprising, nor is a liking to planars.

That said, I do understand why dealers should not trump their own gear against competition. I think this is Bobvin's first time doing so.

I do respect how Bob Sr. goes about reporting on his gear without belittling competition.

 

[Bobvin]

All I said was that I (me, personally) found the M9 more musically engaging than WAMM, based on limited exposure to both. And my friend shared that opinion.

And that after one post where someone voted based on adjustability. Seemed an odd criteria to me.

 

[microstrip]

Lets call a spade a spade Bobvin
When u had your Wilsons and no association with a dealer u were posting all over the place how great your Wilsons were. Also your ARC gear.
Now its all Rapsody gear...
(And BTW, here in the states it's gear or components, not "kit").....

U ought to consider backing it down several notches as your credibility, which started with your room build and was very good is becoming very suspect

Members come here to share their experiences and it is great to have dealers contributing to this forum. Surely I expect and accept that someone who deals professionally with a brand will have a large bias towards it - it is why professionals are requested to list their affiliation at their signature. IMHO it is reader responsibility to filter their posts from their natural bias.

However I feel that professionals should avoid excessive references to competing brands, particularly those they have owned. Although I consider that the too present in WBF target shooting towards brands such as Magico, Wilson Audio or Audio Research, for example, is an accolade to such brands and a good signal of their success and quality, it can become tiring. I understand posting sometimes is not an easy affair to a professional, that must moderate his comparative enthusiasm.

Also IMHO the ratio between professionals and consumers that participate actively in WBF is becoming critical - we urgently need more consumers posting to have a more natural balance of opinions in the forum.

 

[HenryD]

Some more M9 goodness:

 

[spiritofmusic]

I wouldn't want to be the guy who after all those meticulous earlier stages gets the "finishing touches" wrong.

 

[microstrip]

I think this is way unnecessarily snarky. But I understand and I respect the suspicion. Bob now has an apparent conflict of interest.

I have a truly different take on it.

As we all know -- or as we all learn, hopefully, over time in this hobby -- we don't know what we don't know until we experience something better. This is the exact dramatic transformation PeterA underwent from Magico plus Pass to vintage plus Lamm. I credit Peter fully for being intellectually honest enough to declare directly that he literally didn't know what he didn't know -- until he visited David in Utah.

I always was puzzled why Bob thought the Alexia was as fantastic as he reported repeatedly. I think Bob (sorry Bob!) was a relatively inexperienced audiophile in terms of the breadth and the depth of his loudspeaker auditioning experience.

I believe that my ears would find each of the three speakers Bob now has (Alsyvox, Bayz, Diesis) more emotionally engaging and able to achieve higher suspensions of disbelief than his old Alexia. I am very confident I subjectively would prefer each of them over the Alexia.

But now that Bob is selling these three speakers, his (I believe truly genuine new) preferences for the new speakers appear suspect. I understand this suspicion; I agree with the apparent conflict of interest. I just don't agree with the conclusion.

I would bet that a majority of neutral and honest auditioners would prefer one or more of the Alsyvox or the Bayz or the Diesis over the Alexia.

PS: Pilium I know absolutely nothing about. I have told Bob directly that I personally would prefer to hear all three of his new speakers on his (now departed) ARC 160M monos.

Ron,

I have owned the Alexia and do not consider myself an inexperienced audiophile. I posted several times on them, people I know well own them. The Alexia was a sales success and any pair selling second hand goes fast. As expected , the Alexia series 2 improved on the previous model, but it does not change its status.

I know of people who like and do not like the Alexia. This does not make them experts or non experts, better or poorer audiophiles. IMHO they just have different preferences.

Just to say I can't understand why you insist on mixing neutrality and honesty with our preferences.

 

[Bobvin]

Bob,
I'm all for you monetizing your hobby and personally think it's more honest than many "reviewers" who review products to get them free or at a sizable discount. Do you physically set up the systems you sell through your listening room?

So far, the RLR thing is just beginning so I haven't "sold" anything. (All that is handled by Bob @ Rhapsody.) When the time comes, Bob will ensure setup is dealt with for anyone buying as a result of an audition at one of the RLRs.

My own setup skills are "in development" but I have spoken with Jim Smith and expect to have him come optimize setup of each of the speakers in my room. As he expects to spend a day on each setup, I will get serious training. I want anyone who visits to hear the best sound possible.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,

I have owned the Alexia and do not consider myself an inexperienced audiophile. I posted several times on them, people I know well own them. The Alexia was a sales success and any pair selling second hand goes fast. As expected , the Alexia series 2 improved on the previous model, but it does not change its status.

I know of people who like and do not like the Alexia. This does not make them experts or non experts, better or poorer audiophiles. IMHO they just have different preferences.

Just to say I can't understand why you insist on mixing neutrality and honesty with our preferences.

Hello Francisco,

Thank you for your comments.

I honestly am having trouble understanding what you believe I did wrong in my post. I was careful to confine my opinions to myself, as I always appreciate when posters do. I wrote: "I believe that my ears . . ."

Are you criticizing my speculation that a majority of people would prefer one of the Alsyvox or the Bayz or the Diesis over the Alexia?

You know (I hope by now) that I completely respect the subjective views of our members. If you love the Alexia I totally respect that.

However, I don't necessarily agree that sales success in the marketplace is, without more, proof that a component is emotionally engaging and achieves significant suspension of disbelief, or that it subjectively sounds better than less well-known competitors. I believe that sales success and subjective sound quality are answers to different questions.

 

[PeterA]

So far, the RLR thing is just beginning so I haven't "sold" anything. (All that is handled by Bob @ Rhapsody.) When the time comes, Bob will ensure setup is dealt with for anyone buying as a result of an audition at one of the RLRs.

My own setup skills are "in development" but I have spoken with Jim Smith and expect to have him come optimize setup of each of the speakers in my room. As he expects to spend a day on each setup, I will get serious training. I want anyone who visits to hear the best sound possible.

Bob, you will learn a lot from Jim Smith. He spent a day and a half at my house and it was a great learning experience. I’m also sure he will enjoy hearing such a variety of different speakers in the same space. He must be looking forward to it.

 

[sbo6]

I would go the other way. The M9, to me, are far more engaging. The big Wilsons didn’t move me at all. And yes, I have heard both speakers.

Without subs augmenting the Wilsons you can't compare IMO. The Wilsons with 1: ~10" and 1: ~12" woofer vs. the M9s with twin 15" woofers have 70% more surface area, not to mention a much larger woofer cabinet. That's why they show the Wilsons with a pair of Subsonics adding another $75K.

 

[Tango]

Yes, I was very proud to have assembled a great system with real synergy, and many folks who visited loved that system. It was not easy to sell everything off, but I was due for a speaker upgrade. Last year saw the arrival of the Etsuro Gold cartridge, a bespoke LFD phono cable, and the CS Port phono stage. My wife noticed the dent in the account and the idea of a speaker upgrade had her telling me our retirement probably wouldn’t tolerate $50k hits every year for audio upgrades. When I mentioned to my wife about the Rhapsody Listening Rooms she said “you should do that… maybe a way to fund your hobby going forward.”

People will draw their own conclusions about my involvement and passion for this hobby. I am OK with that. The new Pilium ”kit” I am enjoying is a very large step forward in sound quality vs my ARC kit, which I was very fond of. I do not regret having made the change. I am thrilled to have the Diesis Roma in-house, they are everything I imagined after my brief visit hearing them @ Rhapsody a couple years ago. I wrote on this forum about that experience. They were in my short list for speaker upgrade. The Alsyvox are something completely new for me, and I am amazed at their sound. I would never have imagined a way to compare these speakers side by side in my own room. Add the Bayz — again amazing sound — two friends here have MBL speakers so it is educational to compare.

It is all great fun. If I am able to earn a little $$ and continue to fund my passion — hooray! If not I will choose a favorite and sell the rest. There is nothing yet that says this is going to work out.

And I will continue to post my impressions as I go about living with all these additions to my rig. You and others can decide for yourselves whether or not my comments are credible.

As for Wilson speakers — I still love them, but understand now that my Alexia had limitations and weaknesses (as all speakers do.) Some of those I was aware of, others apparent only by hearing something better. Before hearing M9s, I had only heard Magicos a couple of times and preferred the extra dynamic slam of Wilsons. I posted elsewhere about hearing the M9s.

I like your response Bob West . Very straight forward. Audio is a money losing hobby. I think it is super for you getting to enjoy this expensive hobby while no longer bleed. I don't think audio is only about enjoy listening to music. If it is then ear buds and a hand phone would do me just fine. Exploration is what keeping me in audio. You are so fortunate to be able to explore so many great gears. If you like M9 more than the WAMM, I don't suspect you of anything. Only wondering how these two speakers differ. It is a M9 thread. I would be very much interested in hearing from you who have listened both speakers in different system. You can describe more the two speakers as "system" if you will. This would give us a better glimpse of M9.

 

[Bruce B]

I know of people who like and do not like the Alexia. This does not make them experts or non experts, better or poorer audiophiles. IMHO they just have different preferences.

Thank-you micro.....

 

[HenryD]

Without subs augmenting the Wilsons you can't compare IMO. The Wilsons with 1: ~10" and 1: ~12" woofer vs. the M9s with twin 15" woofers have 70% more surface area, not to mention a much larger woofer cabinet. That's why they show the Wilsons with a pair of Subsonics adding another $75K.

I don't think the WAMMs were ever demoed without the subs

 

[Bobvin]

Without subs augmenting the Wilsons you can't compare IMO. The Wilsons with 1: ~10" and 1: ~12" woofer vs. the M9s with twin 15" woofers have 70% more surface area, not to mention a much larger woofer cabinet. That's why they show the Wilsons with a pair of Subsonics adding another $75K.

When I heard the WAMM they had the subwoofers, I listened with and without.

Is it your contention the WAMM are an incomplete design?

 

[microstrip]

Hello Francisco,
(...) Are you criticizing my speculation that a majority of people would prefer one of the Alsyvox or the Bayz or the Diesis over the Alexia?

Yes. IMHO we are free to have subjective personnel opinions and criticize or love whatever we want. However you are simply extrapolating your preference to others that are not present in this forum and even making statistics with them.

You know (I hope by now) that I completely respect the subjective views of our members. If you love the Alexia I totally respect that.

As well as I respect your an other preferences.

However, I don't necessarily agree that sales success in the marketplace is, without more, proof that a component is emotionally engaging and achieves significant suspension of disbelief, or that it subjectively sounds better than less well-known competitors. I believe that sales success and subjective sound quality are answers to different questions.

We agree on that. However in this particular case we have a lot more. The net and magazines are filled with documented opinions on the Alexia, reviewers in this forum own it, many people have experience with it. Majority has proper defined meaning in statistics. BTW, we were not discussing emotionally engaging or significant suspension of disbelief, just what people would prefer whichever are their reasons.

We know all rules have exceptions and correlations in the high-end are hard to establish. However, as Nelson Pass wrote, success in the high-end is mostly creating a sound others appreciate and enjoy.

 

[mcduman]

Some more M9 goodness:

Carbon monocoque bike frame production is a significantly more sophisticated process and the poor souls have to invest in at least 5 molds for different sizes of the same model.