Aesthetix Io Users Group

Lagonda said:
My Io is back from local repair, and working perfectly this time ! :p During the last year and a half since it broke down the last time, my system has changed quite a bit. The extra output from the Grand Cru cartridge compared to the Benz LPS is welcome and makes up for the higher sensitivity of my new Martin Logan Statement speakers, the system is dead quiet. My repair guy supplied me with matched tubes he had in stock, the Io has never been this silent before, absolutely no tube rush. I had forgotten how good the Io sounds, voices are amazing, lyric's are easily understood on songs i have heard hundreds of times without really hearing it all. The combination of electrostatic speakers, Io and Grand Crue is sublime, bass and drum lines just develop so naturally and dynamic it blows me away. I have really enjoyed the way the Statement present music, the scale and grandeur, but had missed some of the emotions i was getting with the MBL/sub-tower combo, now it's back, the Io was the missing ingredient. My ass is sour from dancing around on the listening chair. Instrumental lines are so easy to follow, i hear where the musicians are on stage, but also why they are there !:) My repair guy warned me it will probably brake again at some point, and recommended selling it and getting something more reliable, my answer was giving him extra money to stock some of the components, so down time will be shorter in the future, he seems to understand the circuitry and its shortcomings and finding someone close to Copenhagen has been a blessing !:)
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Happy listening!

I am curious about what the failures were. Did your repair person say?
 
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oldvinyl said:
Happy listening!

I am curious about what the failures were. Did your repair person say?
Click to expand...
Burned mosfets and diodes, still unsure what caused the original malfunction :oops: A little like the last time, but the other channel this time, humidity, power surge from local windmills or Gremlins maybe, no other equipment has any problems, just the Io :confused:
 
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Lagonda said:
Burned mosfets and diodes, still unsure what caused the original malfunction :oops: A little like the last time, but the other channel this time, humidity, power surge from local windmills or Gremlins maybe, no other equipment has any problems, just the Io :confused:
Click to expand...

I am very happy you have the Io back and you are loving it!

What mosfets are in an Io?
 
Lagonda said:
I think they regulate the power supplies.
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I took a quick look at the power supply. I give no guarantee for correctness20240503_100730.jpg
 
Lagonda said:
The extra output from the Grand Cru cartridge compared to the Benz LPS is welcome and makes up for the higher sensitivity of my new Martin Logan Statement speakers
Click to expand...

The speaker sensitivity does not matter. Vdh high output carts were used on western electrics and on living voice vox palladian - Schick and Schroder use them on high sensitivity speakers themselves (very few real analogphiles have low sensitivity speakers with SS ;). It's not that they used the low output vdh models.

At Tang's the VdH sounded great from one input of the EMT phono which was 72 db, and it had total lack of energy from another input that was 60db. In theory, 60db should have been sufficient for his high sensitivity speaker with the high output MS, but with the EMT phono there was something else going on.
 
bonzo75 said:
At Tang's the VdH sounded great from one input of the EMT phono which was 72 db, and it had total lack of energy from another input that was 60db. In theory, 60db should have been sufficient for his high sensitivity speaker with the high output MS, but with the EMT phono there was something else going on.
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EMT and most other tube phono stages are constant gain MM. Some of them including EMT have internal SUTs. The difference you heard is the results of gain and loading differences reflected by the different taps of internal SUTs. Actually tube phono gain stays constant (around 40dB.) and only the SUT’s gain changes which is around 20-30dB. SUT is responsible for the gain change from 72 to 60dB.

IME when you switch from higher to lower turns ratio tap of a SUT sound becomes lifeless and thin for a relatively low impedance cartridge. Additionally an unused tap needs some time to sound good. So, a multi tap SUT (ex. 1ohm, 3ohm, 40ohm) is not instantly switchable. If you switch taps you should give it at least 20 hours IME. This can also be the cause of lack of energy in 60dB, switching from long used tap to an unused one.
 
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Lagonda said:
I think they regulate the power supplies.
Click to expand...
They are the voltage regulators for the various supplies from the power supply. They can fail due to time, but that is rare. An input surge could affect them.

Do you use an AC line filter or conditioner? Some will limit input surges and over voltage. My setup uses an Audience aR12.

Designer fuses could also be a problem if they are not fast enough acting.
 
mtemur said:
EMT and most other tube phono stages are constant gain MM. Some of them including EMT have internal SUTs. The difference you heard is the results of gain and loading differences reflected by the different taps of internal SUTs. Actually tube phono gain stays constant (around 40dB.) and only the SUT’s gain changes which is around 20-30dB. SUT is responsible for the gain change from 72 to 60dB.

IME when you switch from higher to lower turns ratio tap of a SUT sound becomes lifeless and thin for a relatively low impedance cartridge. Additionally an unused tap needs some time to sound good. So, a multi tap SUT (ex. 1ohm, 3ohm, 40ohm) is not instantly switchable. If you switch taps you should give it at least 20 hours IME. This can also be the cause of lack of energy in 60dB, switching from long used tap to an unused one.
Click to expand...

Tang never got the 60db SUT to work effectively that time. And vdh is a high impedance, not low impedance cart. He also had other carts, many of them at the time.

Regardless, my point was that some people think the high output of vdh is suitable for speakers of certain senstivities. This is not correct. The high output ones work brilliantly with very high sensitivity speakers too. It is the electrnoics chain that matters rather than the speaker sensitivity
 
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bonzo75 said:
The high output ones work brilliantly with very high sensitivity speakers too. It is the electrnoics chain that matters rather than the speaker sensitivity
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Speaker characteristics than electronics in my opinion and IME higher gain for a cartridge than recommended always rewards with more energy and lifelike character.

I prefer 58-60dB with 1mV MC cartridges and 70dB with 0.15mV. Of course 80dB sounds more livelier with same SUT and cartridge.
 
oldvinyl said:
They are the voltage regulators for the various supplies from the power supply. They can fail due to time, but that is rare. An input surge could affect them.

Do you use an AC line filter or conditioner? Some will limit input surges and over voltage. My setup uses an Audience aR12.

Designer fuses could also be a problem if they are not fast enough acting.
Click to expand...
the heating regulator dies when the tubes are cold, the impedance is too low(too much current). Then the cathodes of the signal tubes or regulator tube el34 ecc83 are poisoned. This happens when the anode voltage is increased and the heating voltage fails. It's a lottery as to which one breaks first. A simple DC heater with R-C-R chain and enough filter capacitance will do the trick. Don't forget to use symmetrical resistors from tubes~33-100 ohm to ground, otherwise it might hum.
 
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oldvinyl said:
They are the voltage regulators for the various supplies from the power supply. They can fail due to time, but that is rare. An input surge could affect them.

Do you use an AC line filter or conditioner? Some will limit input surges and over voltage. My setup uses an Audience aR12.

Designer fuses could also be a problem if they are not fast enough acting.
Click to expand...
No filters or conditioner/regenerators of any kind connected to the dedicated line i use for the Io's power supplies and preamp. All switchmode devises are on a separate "dirty" line. No designer fuses anywhere in my system, all Io fuses are original Aesthetix factory fuses, they never blow, just all the components they are suppose to protect ! ;)
 
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bonzo75 said:
Tang never got the 60db SUT to work effectively that time. And vdh is a high impedance, not low impedance cart. He also had other carts, many of them at the time.

Regardless, my point was that some people think the high output of vdh is suitable for speakers of certain senstivities. This is not correct. The high output ones work brilliantly with very high sensitivity speakers too. It is the electrnoics chain that matters rather than the speaker sensitivity
Click to expand...
My point was that the extra gain from the VDH cartridge is welcome on the Io, as really low output cartridges tend to have some tube rush on it, mine is about 0,45 mv. Higher sensitivity speakers will in some cases show this tube rush clearly, maybe on of the reason many Io users move away from it after going down the horn rabbit hole !;) Sensitivity is relative, i went from 86 db on MBL to 94 db on Statement, but still low impedance, no tube amps for me, thank god !:p
 
Lagonda said:
My point was that the extra gain from the VDH cartridge is welcome on the Io, as really low output cartridges tend to have some tube rush on it, mine is about 0,45 mv. Higher sensitivity speakers will in some cases show this tube rush clearly, maybe on of the reason many Io users move away from it after going down the horn rabbit hole !;) Sensitivity is relative, i went from 86 db on MBL to 94 db on Statement, but still low impedance, no tube amps for me, thank god !:p
Click to expand...

I am fan of tubed sources on MLs, they give density to the panels. Prefer tube sources and SS amps on MLs
 
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DasguteOhr said:
the heating regulator dies when the tubes are cold, the impedance is too low(too much current). Then the cathodes of the signal tubes or regulator tube el34 ecc83 are poisoned. This happens when the anode voltage is increased and the heating voltage fails. It's a lottery as to which one breaks first. A simple DC heater with R-C-R chain and enough filter capacitance will do the trick. Don't forget to use symmetrical resistors from tubes~33-100 ohm to ground, otherwise it might hum.
Click to expand...
I would hope that the power supplies have soft start and inrush current limiting. Actually, the tube heaters do run before the high voltage kicks in - you can see that on the indicators on the front panel.

MOSFETs used in linear voltage regulators would have a pretty fast transient response time. They also have overvoltage protection and reverse input voltage protection (properly selected device). Wonder what is happening to burn them out?
 
oldvinyl said:
I would hope that the power supplies have soft start and inrush current limiting. Actually, the tube heaters do run before the high voltage kicks in - you can see that on the indicators on the front panel.

MOSFETs used in linear voltage regulators would have a pretty fast transient response time. They also have overvoltage protection and reverse input voltage protection (properly selected device). Wonder what is happening to burn them out?
Click to expand...
This is a slow death of the regulator. This does not happen when it is first switched on. I am not a fan of this regulator. A simple series resistor saves its life. When the tube is cold, it almost creates a short circuit in the circuit. Difficult to implement too many regulators in your device. A suitable place would be between the bridge rectifier and the charging capacitor (green).
As I wrote, cathode poisoning of the tube can occur in two ways.
1. Standby switch - tube heating on and no anode voltage off. If no or very little current flows over the cathode, a protective layer is formed which prevents the cathode from emitting enough electrons. Fatal, the tube dies after a short time.
2 - anode voltage is on and the cathode is not heated. Regulator failure - same error, just in a different direction - no electron flow.
Even short outages permanently damage tubes. There are records of this. The only way to save a tube is to use an extremely high heating voltage of ~10-11 volts instead of 6.3 volts. I don't want to mention that some tubes die during regeneration, but some lead a new life afterwards.;)
P.S be sure to check the tubes (tube tester )where the heating regulator died
 
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@Lagonda

I am happy to hear that you have repaired the Io succesfully in Denmark. I hope I can get local help too, when I need it, in Norway. I have shipped my Io twice over the Atlantic. Very expensive.
 
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OGH said:
@Lagonda

I am happy to hear that you have repaired the Io succesfully in Denmark. I hope I can get local help too, when I need it, in Norway. I have shipped my Io twice over the Atlantic. Very expensive.
Click to expand...
Let me know if you need repair, i will hook you up with my guy. Most Norwegians love a weekend in Copenhagen ;) The Swedish importer probably has a local guy in Stockholm too.
 
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Lagonda said:
My Io is back from local repair, and working perfectly this time ! :p During the last year and a half since it broke down the last time, my system has changed quite a bit. The extra output from the Grand Cru cartridge compared to the Benz LPS is welcome and makes up for the higher sensitivity of my new Martin Logan Statement speakers, the system is dead quiet. My repair guy supplied me with matched tubes he had in stock, the Io has never been this silent before, absolutely no tube rush. I had forgotten how good the Io sounds, voices are amazing, lyric's are easily understood on songs i have heard hundreds of times without really hearing it all. The combination of electrostatic speakers, Io and Grand Crue is sublime, bass and drum lines just develop so naturally and dynamic it blows me away. I have really enjoyed the way the Statement present music, the scale and grandeur, but had missed some of the emotions i was getting with the MBL/sub-tower combo, now it's back, the Io was the missing ingredient. My ass is sour from dancing around on the listening chair. Instrumental lines are so easy to follow, i hear where the musicians are on stage, but also why they are there !:) My repair guy warned me it will probably brake again at some point, and recommended selling it and getting something more reliable, my answer was giving him extra money to stock some of the components, so down time will be shorter in the future, he seems to understand the circuitry and its shortcomings and finding someone close to Copenhagen has been a blessing !:)
Click to expand...
I'm very happy for you :cool:
 
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