Aesthetix Io Users Group

[OGH]

Oldvinyl - many thanks!
First - cables. We agree on a main point, the effect of shielding varies, not always = good. Although I do trust your experience that better umbilicals can improve the s - n ratio. I wonder if this is mainly interesting if you run a low input cartridge, so you need to turn the gain of the Io to the max (82db), or close to it. Then, you will hear all the problems and limitations of the design. At 70 db or below - not much. If you have quiet tubes in gain stage one.
Volume levels - thanks to a fairly good preamp, after years of running the Io direct to my amp, I have the luxury to mix and match. I can test how the music sounds, with a different mix, first, the Io volume controls, and then the preamp volume control. I have found that this is fairly easy to adjust. The sound becomes better - up to a limit - if Io volume is turned up, and the preamp takes on, from there.
I am surprised by the suggestion to turn Io down and the preamp up - has not worked in the past - but can investigate.

 

[oldvinyl]

Oldvinyl - many thanks!
First - cables. We agree on a main point, the effect of shielding varies, not always = good. Although I do trust your experience that better umbilicals can improve the s - n ratio. I wonder if this is mainly interesting if you run a low input cartridge, so you need to turn the gain of the Io to the max (82db), or close to it. Then, you will hear all the problems and limitations of the design. At 70 db or below - not much. If you have quiet tubes in gain stage one.
Volume levels - thanks to a fairly good preamp, after years of running the Io direct to my amp, I have the luxury to mix and match. I can test how the music sounds, with a different mix, first, the Io volume controls, and then the preamp volume control. I have found that this is fairly easy to adjust. The sound becomes better - up to a limit - if Io volume is turned up, and the preamp takes on, from there.
I am surprised by the suggestion to turn Io down and the preamp up - has not worked in the past - but can investigate.

OGH - I use a Clearaudio Goldfinger with 0.5 - 0.6 mV output. Not a low output cartridge.

For most listening, I set the volume around 14:00 (2:00). The amps are connected with XLRs and have 2 V input sensitivity (2 V in yields full output). Speakers are 94 dB sensitivity.

 

[Kcin]

OGH - I use a Clearaudio Goldfinger with 0.5 - 0.6 mV output. Not a low output cartridge.

For most listening, I set the volume around 14:00 (2:00). The amps are connected with XLRs and have 2 V input sensitivity (2 V in yields full output). Speakers are 94 dB sensitivity.

@oldvinyl, I use Goldfinger as well I am at 3:00 but use RCA out and my Beveridge electrostats, although bi-amped, are significantly less efficient.

The Goldfinger is a powerhouse.

 

[OGH]

Dear Oldvinyl and Kcin - we seem to agree that the Io sounds optimal around 14 / 2 to 15 / 3 o clock. With fairly similar 0.5 to 0.6 quite 'robust' mc carts. My Lyra Atlas at 0.56 is a 'powerhouse' too. Maybe even more than the Goldfinger. The main principle becomes clear. With a high output cart the Io can take more of the total gain. This usually means better sound, unless you have a very good preamp.

 

[Kcin]

Dear Oldvinyl and Kcin - we seem to agree that the Io sounds optimal around 14 / 2 to 15 / 3 o clock. With fairly similar 0.5 to 0.6 quite 'robust' mc carts. My Lyra Atlas at 0.56 is a 'powerhouse' too. Maybe even more than the Goldfinger. The main principle becomes clear. With a high output cart the Io can take more of the total gain. This usually means better sound, unless you have a very good preamp.

I thinks so OGH, I had the Atlas as well for a couple of years prior to the GFS. Io likes that level out.

There is a point in any system that turning up the volume saturates and overdrives the room or speakers and that sounds bad. I know where that is on my system.

 

[OGH]

Kcin - same here. I think of it like soy sauce on the rice. How much is 'just right'? If the sauce is too salty (noisy tubes) I want less of it ; -.

Having Io with volumes plus preamp volume is a luxury - mix and match. My Io sounds best at a point before it starts to 'saturate' and 'overdrive' (a bit hard to describe but not hard to hear).

I also agree with you that the Io likes a cartridge with a fairly high output like 0.5 - 0.6 mV. But this is where the noise issue comes in. There is nothing in the Io construction, as far as I know, that "prefers" 0,5 rather than 0,25. It is only that the design now becomes extremely dependent on ultra-quiet tubes, especially in gain stage 1, and maybe better umbilicals also. Some say, Io works fine, also with low output MC carts. I have not tried, recently, although some testing, over the years, did not work out.

Above, I wrote that Io can take more of the total gain, in the mix of Io and preamp volume, with a high output cart. Not sure if this is correct. Seems like two separate issues. 1 How noise-free can you get the Io output, and 2 how good is the sound from the Io vs the preamp.

 

[oldvinyl]

@oldvinyl, I use Goldfinger as well I am at 3:00 but use RCA out and my Beveridge electrostats, although bi-amped, are significantly less efficient.

The Goldfinger is a powerhouse.

Kcin - I use 3:00 or 4:00 for full body contact listening such as Mahler. Or Widor organ symphonies.

That's when things get "interesting". My Von Schweikert speakers have built-in amps for the woofers, so the speakers are actually tube amp friendly.

 

[Kcin]

My room is a mess with all the trials I am doing with the DaVa and different SUTs as well as the Sapphire experiments. On the Io, loading is adjusted with a pair of internal boards per channel for the newest models. with shorting jumpers. I was doing this to set the DaVa up for the SUT load at 47k and misplaced the little bugger.

I have more supplied with the original Io in it's box which is in storage- big pain. I ordered new ones from Digi-key arrived in a day -from point of ordering.

Of course, I found the "lost" shorting plug after the arrival from Digi-key.

Now I have a pack of 25 spares- not the worst thing.

Manufacturer: TE Connectivity
Part Number: 881545-2

This info may help someone as the little shorting plugs are easy to lose or mis-place.




\

 

[OGH]

Thanks Kcin! In my "Io heaven" vision, changing the loading would be much easier. And yet we are into purity. Are these the shorting plugs for the traditional back loading contacts on the Io, like I have, or the newer design? My Io stands towards the back wall, and changing the loading at the back by hit-and-miss shifting the jumper, even using a telescope mirror and good light - is a pain. Unless I want to drag the whole box out of the rack, which is another trouble task. Oh well.

 

[OGH]

Oldvinyl - apropos body contact - yes, on good recordings I also enjoy turning up the volume, especially on quiet parts of the music. Here the sound can reach true excellence. No wonder. It is usually recorded with far less distortion. A few instruments, not the total score or the whole band. For full body contact, the whole band, I can relate to Electric Flag, Killing floor, for example. Still relevant, thrilling. But well recorded? No. So I tend to turn it down. On other records, like Yes; Closer to the edge - soft sections - I tend to turn them up. Very easy to hear what sounds best, with the Io.

For full body contact, one instrument, this piano record sounds good on vinyl. It is our number one Christmas album, here in Norway: Bugge Wesseltoft: Its snowing on my piano.

If you want to go further into music from Norway, check out Molvær, Nils Petter: Khmer (On: ECM. Code: ECM 1560). Or other European music with great "embodied" sound from instruments - try Nik Bartsch: Llyria, on ECM, 2011).

Generally, based on my vinyl album collection, I think that my Analogue productions LPs give me most 'body contact' (across musical genre) with Speaker's Corner a close second. Mofi, Classic records - more mixed. Sundazed so-so. ECM has been more about mind than body, it can be argued, but their recordings are often excellent, from the 70s (e g Jarrett: Køln concerts) and later.

Much 'body contact' music was hard to record and produce right. With the Io we are better able to hear the music before band loudness and over-dynamic interaction set in, overloading the recording, and making it almost impossible to 'rescue' the results afterwards. For example, listen to Procol Harum's pioneer prog rock concert, with symphony orchestra - In Concert With The Edmonton Symphony Orchestra, 1972. It sounds fine, in some ways, but also illustrates very clearly the problems with recording high dynamic full range music. I am no expert in classical music but think I hear it there too. It becomes very evident when you try to integrate a sympony orchestra and a band. Yet this is now an on-going affair, in music...with producers trying to reduce or mask the problems. For new symphonic rock, check out The National: Terrapin station, on Day of the dead 10xLP box, 4AD, 2016. It is promising, but hard to do right, even now.

For 'intimate' body (and soul) contact, one of my favorites is Sade: Love Is Stronger Than Pride. No wonder. Beyond good songs, this album has a more sparse, lean band and production, than some of her other albums, making the singing and instruments appear closer to me, in the soundscape.

 

[Kcin]

Thanks Kcin! In my "Io heaven" vision, changing the loading would be much easier. And yet we are into purity. Are these the shorting plugs for the traditional back loading contacts on the Io, like I have, or the newer design? My Io stands towards the back wall, and changing the loading at the back by hit-and-miss shifting the jumper, even using a telescope mirror and good light - is a pain. Unless I want to drag the whole box out of the rack, which is another trouble task. Oh well.

OGH, these plugs will work for both old ( rear loading) and new ( internal board) designs.

Wouldn't it be nice to adjust with a SS relay load board controlled by wifi on your phone.? Are you listening JW ? ... lol.

 

[oldvinyl]

Oldvinyl - apropos body contact - yes, on good recordings I also enjoy turning up the volume, especially on quiet parts of the music. Here the sound can reach true excellence. No wonder. It is usually recorded with far less distortion. A few instruments, not the total score or the whole band. For full body contact, the whole band, I can relate to Electric Flag, Killing floor, for example. Still relevant, thrilling. But well recorded? No. So I tend to turn it down. On other records, like Yes; Closer to the edge - soft sections - I tend to turn them up. Very easy to hear what sounds best, with the Io.

For full body contact, one instrument, this piano record sounds good on vinyl. It is our number one Christmas album, here in Norway: Bugge Wesseltoft: Its snowing on my piano.

If you want to go further into music from Norway, check out Molvær, Nils Petter: Khmer (On: ECM. Code: ECM 1560). Or other European music with great "embodied" sound from instruments - try Nik Bartsch: Llyria, on ECM, 2011).

Generally, based on my vinyl album collection, I think that my Analogue productions LPs give me most 'body contact' (across musical genre) with Speaker's Corner a close second. Mofi, Classic records - more mixed. Sundazed so-so. ECM has been more about mind than body, it can be argued, but their recordings are often excellent, from the 70s (e g Jarrett: Køln concerts) and later.

Much 'body contact' music was hard to record and produce right. With the Io we are better able to hear the music before band loudness and over-dynamic interaction set in, overloading the recording, and making it almost impossible to 'rescue' the results afterwards. For example, listen to Procol Harum's pioneer prog rock concert, with symphony orchestra - In Concert With The Edmonton Symphony Orchestra, 1972. It sounds fine, in some ways, but also illustrates very clearly the problems with recording high dynamic full range music. I am no expert in classical music but think I hear it there too. It becomes very evident when you try to integrate a sympony orchestra and a band. Yet this is now an on-going affair, in music...with producers trying to reduce or mask the problems. For new symphonic rock, check out The National: Terrapin station, on Day of the dead 10xLP box, 4AD, 2016. It is promising, but hard to do right, even now.

For 'intimate' body (and soul) contact, one of my favorites is Sade: Love Is Stronger Than Pride. No wonder. Beyond good songs, this album has a more sparse, lean band and production, than some of her other albums, making the singing and instruments appear closer to me, in the soundscape.

OGH - for Norwegian full body contact I listen to Grieg Peer Gynt Suite, Holberg Suite or the Symphonic dances. They get very dynamic. His song cycles with piano accompaniment are also great (to me anyway).

For Christmas album - my favorite is the Vince Guaraldo Trio soundtrack to Charlie Brown Christmas. I also like arrangements of the Spanish Riu Riu Chiu.

 

[OGH]

Oldvinyl - Grieg certainly delivers the goods! In a somewhat bombastic way, sometimes, to my mind, but it does have a thrill to it. If it dont swing it wont mean a thing...sings Dr John, on Duke Elegant, one of his most body-connecting records, for me. If you like Norwegian / Nordic flavors, you might even check out Okkenhaug and Irgens-Jensen, modernistic composers, after Grieg. And later, Arne Norheim, Terje Rypdal. Or even the Finnish band Wigwam, and Sweden's Samla Mammas Manna. Most overlooked bands in prog pop history? You could even take a break with Abba, or A-ha. Although I wouldn't bet on your staying long, for that...

 

[OGH]

Sorry for taking this thread off topic - a bit - but it relates to the performance of the Io, and we are all friends and users, here - so another new suggestion, sounding very good on vinyl, is Karpe: Omar and Sheriff. Also, Rosalia, her second album especially. Chime in, we soon have a Christmas holiday, suggestions for what to listen to is welcome.

The Io demands the best 'food'. The better the input the greater the performance. This means the best recording and production, as well as the best upstream components (player, tonearm, cartridge, cable). The Io, especially with optimal NOS tubes, certainly delivers top-sounding records with excellent results. It lifts mediocre sounding recordings to new heights too. Now listening to Spirit: 12 dreams of dr Sardonicus. Another overlooked classic. With the cartridge better adjusted (azimuth, especially), even Steppenwolf: Monster sounds good, less shrill.

 

[OGH]

One more note on the Io "food chain".

Ten years ago, my failure rate, buying LPs / vinyl was quite high - 40 percent. For example, poor-sounding reissues.

Today, it is down to 20 or 10 percent.

Meaning that, out of ten LPs I buy, eight or nine will be keepers, well worth it.

I get this low failure rate by reading up on the albums, what other vinyl users say, and listening in digital format, as far as possible. I have a three-way test. I first listen to the digital version of the album on my single-driver pinpoint home office system. Sometimes also on my headphone Otl amp. These offer very high clarity, and often decide the issue, is the sound quality good enough to invest in the LP. If in doubt I play the digital version of the album in my main system too.

Result of this strategy = less waste of money on not-so-good vinyl versions. A better "food chain". More added value from the Io.

 

[thekong]

My room is a mess with all the trials I am doing with the DaVa and different SUTs as well as the Sapphire experiments. On the Io, loading is adjusted with a pair of internal boards per channel for the newest models. with shorting jumpers. I was doing this to set the DaVa up for the SUT load at 47k and misplaced the little bugger.

I have more supplied with the original Io in it's box which is in storage- big pain. I ordered new ones from Digi-key arrived in a day -from point of ordering.

Of course, I found the "lost" shorting plug after the arrival from Digi-key.

Now I have a pack of 25 spares- not the worst thing.

Manufacturer: TE Connectivity
Part Number: 881545-2

This info may help someone as the little shorting plugs are easy to lose or mis-place.




\

I have the older version of Io with dip switch at the back. Instead of pulling the unit out to change the loading, I use RCA plug with resistors soldered-in for loading. I have just enough access to the back of the Io to make it doable

 

[Ron Resnick]

A friend of mine in San Francisco is considering purchasing a used Rhea Eclipse or a used Io Eclipse.

What are the sonic advantages of the Io Eclipse over the Rhea Eclipse?

Thank you.

 

[OGH]

I cannot speak about Rhea (never heard it), but about the Io. I bought a used Mk 2 with one power supply for a very good price, and then shipped it to Aesthetix for the partial Eclipse plus a second power supply. It was costly, and sounded strange before ca 300 hours of break-in, but afterwards I have never regretted. Never even looked back. With NOS tubes there are even more improvements. Highly textured timbre-rich sound with explosive dynamics. So I would say, go for the Io if the price is fair. But I would hesitate unless I used a MC with a fairly robust output. Or tested that the Io or Rhea behaved well (low enough noise) with my very low-output cartridge.

 

[thekong]

My experience with the Rhea is limited to the very first generation, which was quite noisy at the highest gain setting ( 72db ?), so couldn't be used with very low output cartridges! No sure if Aesthetix has solved the problem with later generations.

 

[OGH]

Yes, maybe. If I understand this right, it has to do with purity vs compromises. The Io is a challenging purity type instrument, the Rhea maybe a bit less so. Both need to be adjusted for cartridge output.

Ron - if your friend is into getting the best from vinyl, I would advice, invest in an Io, even if more costly here and now. It has 'paid off' in the years I have used it.

I just compared Beach boys: Sail on sailor, from digital streaming (Qobuz) and then, my original Holland LP, through the Io. Although I am used to the Io sounding good, now I was almost shocked at the difference. Much better sound! The Io serves as a key component, raising the performance of the rest of my system.