An Explanation of the Term "Suspension of Disbelief"

[Jim Smith]

Suspension of disbelief

This is a term – or maybe a thought process – that I rarely run across.

I suppose that if you were actively thinking about how real the recording sounds, and you were thinking about the sound effects more than the music, it could happen.

Of course, while I appreciate the term emotional engagement, and it certainly does happen, for me and my clients, we use the term Musical Engagement.

Here is the example that I have used on every voicing session for the past ten years or so.

I know when I am finished voicing when I find myself falling into the music on any and all of 70+ tracks on my RoomPlay playlist. I’ve probably heard these tracks thousands of times, and I know what’s coming in the next second, but only when the ME Factor – Musical Engagement – comes forward on the tracks do I turn to my client and say, “We’re done.”

This is not meant to be a criticism of “Suspension of Disbelief”, just as an alternate viewpoint/course of action.

 

[microstrip]

Enjoy and suspension of disbelief are NOT synonyms...did you forget the not?

As I have been stating, emotional involvement is not the same as suspension of disbelief, you can have one without the other.

Thanks for checking my evident typo! Just edited it. Can you correct the quote to avoid confusion?

 

[Elliot G.]

First gentleman if this forum had a discussion on achieving a sexual orgasism I think after a few days reading the replies I would be celebate!

One can not will a state of flow or mind to come with an audio system. My system can provide me with fun and enjoyment ( fill in the proper terms here) but from time to time the time machine lands, opens its door and allows me to travel through time and get that special, occasional, non explainable feeling. It NEVER happens with ear buds, sound bars and all the other things mentioned here. It happens on occassion and its happened with different sstems in different rooms throughout my listening life.
It has happened occasionallywith HP , it has happened with AE, and of course it has happened mostlyu when I am alone in my space when the moon is in the seventh house and jupiter aligns with mars, and the space and time continum opens and allows me to go through.
I can't analize it! I can't will it, I acan barely explain that it happened. I have heard a bunch of great systems and thouroughly enjoyed them However that alone was not wat I mentioned or am discussing.
Perhaps it could happen at Ron's, or Mike's, or Marty's or whomever but I was only in those rooms for a fleetingly short time and there was a lot of distractions. One's mind and the other conditions must align to create this favorable event.
I ask this. Doesnt you system sound different on different days or seasons or times ? Mine does. Its never bad or unlisteneable however there are times and days etc,. where it sounds noticeably better. The time machine effect is an offshot of this and it involves some special magic that I can't make happen it just does.
This is not a altered state drug induced thing, although it could be, but at this time in my life it happens when it happens.
It happened for me the last time at Oliver's new sound room with the Majestic's after his event aaround 2am when everyone was gone.
The next time I am there it probably won't happen.
I always look foward to those evenings when something special occurs.

 

[Amir]

Jim Smith
Thank you for your book (get better sound)

I hope you share more about your experience here .

 

[Jim Smith]

Elliot, I don't think Suspension of Disbelief is special, but maybe I misunderstand your post...

 

[Carlos269]

Suspension of disbelief

This is a term – or maybe a thought process – that I rarely run across.

I suppose that if you were actively thinking about how real the recording sounds, and you were thinking about the sound effects more than the music, it could happen.

Of course, while I appreciate the term emotional engagement, and it certainly does happen, for me and my clients, we use the term Musical Engagement.

Here is the example that I have used on every voicing session for the past ten years or so.

I know when I am finished voicing when I find myself falling into the music on any and all of 70+ tracks on my RoomPlay playlist. I’ve probably heard these tracks thousands of times, and I know what’s coming in the next second, but only when the ME Factor – Musical Engagement – comes forward on the tracks do I turn to my client and say, “We’re done.”

This is not meant to be a criticism of “Suspension of Disbelief”, just as an alternate viewpoint/course of action.

Jim, since you are “voicing” your clients’ systems by ear, and it appears that you are using your very well know tracks to achieve your objectives, how do you know that “we’re done” if all your clients’ system do not turn out to sound the same? In other words, do you have varying degrees of “we’re done”? Can you elaborate of how you know that you have reached what is possible with your client’s system? Also how are you able to know that greater playback quality can not be achieved with your client’s system than what’s in your head?

 

[Jim Smith]

When I find myself falling into the music - not the sound - on these tracks that I know by every nanosecond, that's going to satisfy each client. At least it has since I started using this as a test .

 

[Carlos269]

When I find myself falling into the music - not the sound - on these tracks that I know by every nanosecond, that's going to satisfy each client. At least it has since I started using this as a test .

This doesn’t really answer either of my questions. Is there anything else involved other than a “good feeling”?

 

[PeterA]

What "willing" part?

post #57

 

[PeterA]

This is yet another assumption on your part, and it is false.

You wrote that it is “assumed”. It is not.

 

[Jim Smith]

This doesn’t really answer either of my questions. Is there anything else involved other than a “good feeling”?

Being involved in the music is my goal. But I am not going to argue with you, sorry!!!

 

[Amir]

This doesn’t really answer either of my questions. Is there anything else involved other than a “good feeling”?

Your questions are not right questions, for asking right questions you should first undrestand what Jim said.

 

[Carlos269]

Being involved in the music is my goal. But I am not going to argue with you, sorry!!!

We should perform an experiment to see if you can take a system to the “we’re done” stage and then I could came to see if I can take it further. It would be interesting to know how much performance is left behind, if any, giving the benefit of the doubt there.

 

[Carlos269]

Your questions are not right questions, for asking right questions you should first undrestand what Jim said.

Amir, you are starting to be annoying with your zero value responses. If you have nothing of value to contribute, then please consider posting. Think of what you are contributing before you hit post.

 

[Carlos269]

Being involved in the music is my goal. But I am not going to argue with you, sorry!!!

Further to my last post, do you know what percentage of your clients reposition their speakers after you are “done”? This would also be a valuable statistic to examine.

Is there a follow-up engagement as part of your service to see if in the next 6 months or year the clients are still using the “we’re done” set up?

“Voicing” to me seems like a personal matter.

 

[Lee]

We should perform an experiment to see if you can take a system to the “we’re done” stage and then I could came to see if I can take it further. It would be interesting to know how much performance is left behind, if any, giving the benefit of the doubt there.

I seriously doubt you could improve on Jim’s work. He has so much experience and he has done this twice for me with two different sets of speakers.

 

[Carlos269]

I seriously doubt you could improve on Jim’s work. He has so much experience and he has done this twice for me with two different sets of speakers.

We should put that to a test. Do you happen to know what percentage of clients retain Jim’s “we’re done” speaker set up? It would be very interesting to see how many retain his set up and how many experiment and find a more optimal set up to their liking. As I mentioned previously, to me the “voicing” of one’s system just seems like such a personal matter.

Lee are you currently using Jim Smith’s set up? If you are maybe I can pay you a visit.

 

[marty]

I'm still struggling to understand what exactly is being discussed. There's 2 parts to the term in question. The word "suspension" I understand. But what exactly is being "disbelieved"? Are people confused when they hear the sound of real music by real instruments? Is anyone with a modicum of decent hearing not 100% convinced they are hearing real music when they hear it? If someone said to you, "we will kill your spouse/dog/pet rock" if we play real music and you guess incorrectly whether it is reproduced music", would you not get it right 100% of the time? This topic may make for interesting metaphysical and philosphical discussion, but proving a negative is a non-starter for me. You might have started with something easier such as proving the existence of God. Kant tried that 250 years ago and look where it got him. Kant's "Antinomies of Pure Reason" described conflicting propositions that are not susceptible to solution by use of reason, let alone experimental proof. Good think he didn't have a stereo to convince him he shouldn't disblieve the sound of real instruments. Reading this thread probably would have killed him.

 

[Lee]

We should put that to a test. Do you happen to know what percentage of clients retain Jim’s “we’re done” speaker set up? It would be very interesting to see how many retain his set up and how many experiment and find a more optimal set up to their liking. As I mentioned previously, to me the “voicing” of one’s system just seems like such a personal matter.

Lee are you currently using Jim Smith’s set up? If you are maybe I can pay you a visit.

I do use Jim’s setup. But before I would invite you over, I would need to understand what your credentials and experience in this area are.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, I don't think Suspension of Disbelief is special, but maybe I misunderstand your post...

Hi Jim,
Hope you are well, Just spoke to David N the other day. I don't argue about semantics as words have been twisted enough to have no meaning. My experience and what I will call it is entering the Time machine and being transported. I understand what you do, and well for that matter, but what you are doing for your clients is not what I am referring to. That process gets the system in the area or zone where my thing has a chance to happen, I have spent loads of time adjusting/voicing/setting up my system and my room and to me its always an on going process. I don't however obsess over it because the system is terrific and I only work on it when I feel there is a need. I don't do nor do I want to do what you and others do for a living. I don't want to get stuck in the equipment and comparision zone again. That basis of comparision drove me crazy and made me at one time hating to listen since i was always listening for what's wrong rather than enjoying my beloved music. Thats just me!
My Time Machine is something that happens on occasion, sometime alone sometimes not but that event is not something that I can turn a knob or adjust a screw and make happen. This happens in part becasue of the work I have done but not specifically doing it that makes it happen.
Thats the best I can explain my thoughts for now.
I am not high LOL