Audio Note vs. Aries Cerat vs. darTZeel

[TonyW]

I can’t believe I’m seeing posts like these. YouTube videos, just like TV, the movies, magazines and newspapers are entertainment. If you want to glean some tidbits of information from them, you do so at your own risk. I see text books and peer reviewed journals as factual- but even some of the journals lately have been found to have inaccurate information. Most news articles are full of inaccuracies or slanted to the viewpoints of the author. I have yet to see an accurate news article where I had first hand knowledge. Speed over accuracy seems to rule the day.

 

[Synaxis]

I can’t believe I’m seeing posts like these. YouTube videos, just like TV, the movies, magazines and newspapers are entertainment. If you want to glean some tidbits of information from them, you do so at your own risk. I see text books and peer reviewed journals as factual- but even some of the journals lately have been found to have inaccurate information. Most news articles are full of inaccuracies or slanted to the viewpoints of the author. I have yet to see an accurate news article where I had first hand knowledge. Speed over accuracy seems to rule the day.

Posts about what? That the ones who go out of their way to lie to you and have their "awards" bought and paid for are simply being called out?

Being entertainment has nothing to do with being honest nor does it have anything to do with trusting what you see.

No one should make a purchase decision based on ANY REVIEW or video or post on a forum of any kind without hearing for themselves. That's not what this is about. And as we've seen even "peer reviewed" journals are full of bias B.S. (I won't name the one that was made public last week as it is an issue about children that is a political hot topic).

If you're ok with their lies you can ignore them. For those who want to know who is simply bought and paid for when they claim something sounds goods then it's a good data point.

I'm still going to watch their videos and enjoy them as entertainment. I'm just going to laugh knowing that not all of their viewers are as stupid as they think.

 

[Kingrex]

So your statement was factually false and now you are changing what you said. Got it. Thanks for admitting it.

It's ok if you are OK with people misleading you about how they get paid on their channel. It's ok if you are ok with the "pump and dump scheme".

Just admit you are ok with the dishonesty. You have a right to your opinion.

I think your right but wrong. Did you tell us who this big time influencer is. I don't think you did, and it doesn’t really matter, but I bet said person is posting and looking to have their content generated them income. And if that means being paid to put guest on, so be it.

And I really don't care how you get paid. Pumping a product for money on your channel. I don't see it as dishonest. Like others have said. There are stars out there every day on TV saying I love Pepsi. I love Nike. So what. I doubt any of them care about the product.

A YouTube story, article iin a mag, they are only a singular data point. When I get interested in something, I look all over. Call me jaded. I really put no stock into who is telling me what, publicly. Not unless I know them personally. Like I listen to Ralph. I listen to Aleainbow. When these people post publicly, I give their content more weight.

When I talk to people privatly with whom I have a personal relationship, I give it a lot of weight. If they were to lie to my face because they were a brand ambasitor, I would be upset.

An online influencers opinion. Who cares. I know they are there earning a living. Even Fremer. His online stuff. I give it no weight. When I call him in person and ask about a phono stage, I give that a lot of weight. I bought what he confirmed was a high value, solid perdormer and fit my budget.

 

[Synaxis]

I think your right but wrong. Did you tell us who this big time influencer is. I don't think you did, and it doesn’t really matter, but I bet said person is posting and looking to have their content generated them income. And if that means being paid to put guest on, so be it.

And I really don't care how you get paid. Pumping a product for money on your channel. I don't see it as dishonest. Like others have said. There are stars out there every day on TV saying I love Pepsi. I love Nike. So what. I doubt any of them care about the product.

A YouTube story, article iin a mag, they are only a singular data point. When I get interested in something, I look all over. Call me jaded. I really put no stock into who is telling me what, publicly. Not unless I know them personally. Like I listen to Ralph. I listen to Aleainbow. When these people post publicly, I give their content more weight.

When I talk to people privatly with whom I have a personal relationship, I give it a lot of weight. If they were to lie to my face because they were a brand ambasitor, I would be upset.

An online influencers opinion. Who cares. I know they are there earning a living. Even Fremer. His online stuff. I give it no weight. When I call him in person and ask about a phono stage, I give that a lot of weight. I bought what he confirmed was a high value, solid perdormer and fit my budget.

So again, you made a completely false statement before and stated it as fact. You need to own that you don't know what you are talking about "everyone on YouTube". Just be honest.

I think you need to find people in the industry who will share first hand with you what's going on. These are not secrets and almost everyone (who is honest) is talking about it.

You don't know the other ones that are not in this full-time (per their name) who will only cover rooms they are paid to? I believe they only charge $600. Want a better award from them? Just pay a little more. They are more of an online print with some video.

I don't care how people make money. But when they only cover a company or product when paid and then falsely proclaim it "best in show", and ignore everything else, as a data point that's something I want to know. ESPECIALLY when they claim to the contrary.

How many great smaller companies are out there - that are the heart of great hifi but can't / won't pay the pay-for-play model these self proclaimed "looking out for you" YouTube/dealers embrace?

As I stated it doesn't influence what weight I give anything they say - it's simply interesting to know who the really dishonest are among them.

People always whine about "what's wrong with hifi". Then when presented with a glaring issue they are OK with it.

 

[TonyW]

My wife doth lie, but I believe her anyway.
Shakespeare

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I think as a dealer, selling Aries, this statement is a little “rich” and self serving.
One of the reasons I loved my 25 years on the Naim forum - dealers are not allowed to “sell” or “hawk” on the forum.

I'm not attempting to sell or promote any specific manufacturer on this forum, as my target market isn't active here and doesn't participate in discussions. I'm merely pointing out that there's an increase in Dartzeel products appearing in the second-hand market. Additionally, we have a client thats made the switch from Dartzeel to another manufacturer. This observation is neither self-serving nor promotional; it's simply noting a market trend.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I'm uncertain about the assertion that Dartzeel products will appreciate in value. In the realm of high-end audio, this trend is rare, with a few notable exceptions such as Western Electric, Klangfilm, and Altec.

 

[morricab]

I'm uncertain about the assertion that Dartzeel products will appreciate in value. In the realm of high-end audio, this trend is rare, with a few notable exceptions such as Western Electric, Klangfilm, and Altec.

I will simply predict that they won’t. They will go the way of countless other brands. They don’t have heritage , something special and frankly sound quality to become modern classics.

Name one brand of SS gear that costs more used than new? The stuff that has gone up in value has been old tube amps, which were relatively moderately priced (pre luxury pricing days) by high end standards of today or classic horn systems….often of theater or studio origin.

 

[Audiohertz2]

FMA , McIntosh , Mark Levinson , Threshold , Rowland , Sansui , to name a few ..!

Tubes were always expensive to buy or build the BOM on a tube amp easily exceeds any SS , watt for watt ..!

 

[wil]

You've never seen a TV commercial by a celebrity saying what a great car this is to drive, or this is the best reverse mortgage you can get?
When Kahn from Star Trek starts singing about a Chrysler Cordoba; if I had been old enough to buy a car...

It works. I look back on my younger days and I see how I was influenced to buy the new car, new appliances, new TV, etc. Could have retired sooner if I could have stayed out of car lots and Electronics stores...

It should be obvious the difference between a celebrity paid to make an advertisement and a reviewer on YouTube being secretly paid to give their opinion about a product.

 

[TonyW]

It should be obvious the difference between a celebrity paid to make an advertisement and a reviewer on YouTube being secretly paid to give their opinion about a product.

So you think someone famous with a reputation to protect would be less sincere than anyone else?

 

[wil]

So you think someone famous with a reputation to protect would be less sincere than anyone else?

Everyone knows the celeb is paid to say something. No problem. The YT reviewer is hiding the fact that they are getting paid. Problem.

 

[morricab]

FMA , McIntosh , Mark Levinson , Threshold , Rowland , Sansui , to name a few ..!

Tubes were always expensive to buy or build the BOM on a tube amp easily exceeds any SS , watt for watt ..!

Adjusted for inflation? Doubtful at best.

 

[Kingrex]

So again, you made a completely false statement before and stated it as fact. You need to own that you don't know what you are talking about "everyone on YouTube". Just be honest.

I think you need to find people in the industry who will share first hand with you what's going on. These are not secrets and almost everyone (who is honest) is talking about it.

You don't know the other ones that are not in this full-time (per their name) who will only cover rooms they are paid to? I believe they only charge $600. Want a better award from them? Just pay a little more. They are more of an online print with some video.

I don't care how people make money. But when they only cover a company or product when paid and then falsely proclaim it "best in show", and ignore everything else, as a data point that's something I want to know. ESPECIALLY when they claim to the contrary.

How many great smaller companies are out there - that are the heart of great hifi but can't / won't pay the pay-for-play model these self proclaimed "looking out for you" YouTube/dealers embrace?

As I stated it doesn't influence what weight I give anything they say - it's simply interesting to know who the really dishonest are among them.

People always whine about "what's wrong with hifi". Then when presented with a glaring issue they are OK with it.

Who.gives a crap who gets best in show. I role my eyes when members here proclaim all the usual hyper expensive stuff as best.

And.thank you for agreeing, they are in it for the money. We all agree, right. So.of.course its all crap. Just watch the video coverage, eat some popcorn and recognize it for what it is. Free TV entertainmment. Its not news. Which is generally fake too.

 

[Kingrex]

People talk up Audio Note all the time. I took a listen at a store and took no interest.

And I do at times wonder the real performance of any product like Aries and Dartzeel as the inflation pricing seems to rocket up each year. And the ferver of interest and support seems to grow right along with the escalated pricing. Sort of like the best of show has to be a rockport or Magico or some well known name. Who knows. Maybe the stuff is that good. Or maybe its an expectation bias. Or just paid advertising. Few seem to risk a call out for something like Tree House Audio. What? To inepensive. Looks funny. Not enough drivers. To new. Open baffle. Its can't be someones favorite.

FWIW any of the 3 in the thread title could sound very good. Or bad. Depends on what.its paired with and how its set up. And whats your personal taste. Thats peobably the biggest determinate.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Adjusted for inflation? Doubtful at best.

Doubtful , are you sure ..!

Adjusted for inflation ..., paid 1180.00 for one in 1977 ..

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[Argonaut]

One of the reasons I loved my 25 years on the Naim forum

My commiserations, you would have received less *Hard Time* for a manslaughter conviction.

 

[Zeotrope]

I'm not attempting to sell or promote any specific manufacturer on this forum, as my target market isn't active here and doesn't participate in discussions. I'm merely pointing out that there's an increase in Dartzeel products appearing in the second-hand market. Additionally, we have a client thats made the switch from Dartzeel to another manufacturer. This observation is neither self-serving nor promotional; it's simply noting a market trend.

Hahahahaha. A “market trend” is one person??
What is the value you are providing by illustrating this trend?
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that you sell the products that this trend making client of yours has purchased?
Come on, man. Learn to quit before you dig yourself into a hole you cannot get out of.

And I love the dismissive: ‘my clients don’t participate in forums like this’. Oh yeah? I suppose we are not smart enough? to buy mediocre horns.

 

[Argonaut]

A simple HiFiShark search reveals that currently ( subtracting the Chinese clone gear ) there are well over 40 items of genuine Dartzeel equipment advertised for sale across the usual markets , the same simple search reveals that there are currently 7 items of Aries Cerat equipment advertised for sale across the same markets , Merely Facts !

Used DarTZeel for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used Dartzeel for sale on 400+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

Used aries cerat for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used Aries Cerat for sale on 400+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

 

[dunkyboy]

Wow what a disaster of a thread. This is the stuff that kills forums. Mods, how about deleting all the off-topic bullshit toddler tantrum posts?

Aaaanyway, the Meishu Tonmeister doesn’t sound at all like the stereotypical 300B. It doesn’t sound remotely “woolly, nebulous, or lacking in drive”. It doesn’t sound especially “dark” or “brooding”. It sounds HUGE, open, fast, dynamic, intense - when the music demands it.

I have to imagine speaker matching is vital though, for reasons mentioned - though I suspect impedance is more important than sensitivity (other than for volume). Audio Note is the obvious speaker choice, because matching is taken care of for you - but no doubt the Tonmeister sounds amazing with plenty other tube-friendly speakers. Not a gamble I’d take if you’re uncertain about the matching though!

I do agree about pricing. Audio Note UK - like a lot of high end manufacturers - keep ramping up their prices year after year. As a fan, it’s pretty demoralizing. But then the question of value just becomes, is there anything else at the price that sounds as good or does what you’re after?

Dunc