Audio Note vs. Aries Cerat vs. darTZeel

[buzzlulu]

I do feel genuine empathy for you that the money you recently spent on their gear is now virtually worthless.

I am sorry however this is a completely ridiculous statement.

I purchased my DarTZeel pre and amplifier at the end of 2023 after living for more than 20 years with a totl Naim 552/500. How is the money I spent on DarTZeel now worthless? I did not purchase my system to use and then sell. I purchased it to provide me with passionate music.

I like to rationalize my expensive purchases in the uber end of hifi utilizing the model of amortization. My Naim 552/500 has a list price of $70k. It gave me 18 years of stellar use and immense enjoyment. Amortized the cost to me was $3900 a year or $325 a month to listen to world class hifi. As I like to joke with my friends, there are those who spend more than $325 a month at Starbucks sipping mocha joka lattes.

I expect my DarTZeel components to carry me through for the next 10-20 years - so no - the gear is not "worthless". Same with my dCS Rossini and Linn LP12. Both do not owe me anything - their costs have already been recouped in listening pleasure.

 

[Synaxis]

Asking as I don't know. Who makes the chips in those phones. You let this stuff creap too long and you can end up in a very compromised position.

They are Apple designed chips. I believe they in mfg'd in Taiwan.

That is one reason the tension between China and Taiwan has serious implications for US security.

 

[Synaxis]

I am sorry however this is a completely ridiculous statement.

You are welcome to feel any way you want - and rationalize your purchases how ever you'd like.

So long as you like your gear that is all that matters.

I know one US dealer who just sold a NIB Dartzeel amp AT A LOSS.

So looking at this rationally and without an emotional attachment, if NEW gear is selling below dealer cost, used stuff is worth considerably less.

Mike L was unable to sell his Dartzeel BEFORE this whole debacle hit even though he knew what was coming and tried to get out from under it before it went public and take advantage of an unsuspecting buyer.

Surely only worse now with any logical rational view.

 

[buzzlulu]

You are welcome to feel any way you want - and rationalize your purchases how ever you'd like.

So long as you like your gear that is all that matters.

I know one US dealer who just sold a NIB Dartzeel amp AT A LOSS.

So looking at this rationally and without an emotional attachment, if NEW gear is selling below dealer cost, used stuff is worth considerably less.

I still fail to see the point of your logic. Do you purchase your hifi gear with the intent of selling after a short period of ownership? Are you a flipper? Do you change your gear like you change your underwear ?

If not than the idea of what your equipment is worth on the second hand market is irrelevant.
I believe most on this forum purchase their gear with the express purpose of listening to music.

According to your logic no one would purchase an automobile. The minute you drive it off the dealers lot, within the first 60 seconds, it has lost 1/3 of its value.

 

[Synaxis]

I still fail to see the point of your logic. Do you purchase your hifi gear with the intent of selling after a short period of ownership? Are you a flipper? Do you change your gear like you change your underwear ?

If not than the idea of what your equipment is worth on the second hand market is irrelevant.
I believe most on this forum purchase their gear with the express purpose of listening to music.

According to your logic no one would purchase an automobile. The minute you drive it off the dealers lot, within the first 60 seconds, it has lost 1/3 of its value.

So then you don't have a problem with my point you said you did (about the value) and instead now want to talk about cars and are asking about my underwear?

LOL.

Okaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy

Have fun listening to your gear and I'm sorry you are so sensitive about the Dartzeel failure and closure.

 

[audioblazer]

Really? I don't think I would ever purchase a used cartridge.

Dealers will be happy to have you as customer. As for me I have sold 20-30 used items , 5/6 koetsu, many miyajima catridges & many are happy buying used for less than 1/2 MSRP

 

[bonzo75]

When AF1 was launched , If I remember correctly, MSRP USD65K but selling for USSD98K in USA.. Catridges MSRP in USA is even worse. I barely lose any money selling used catridges in USA through audiogon

forums and reviews are usually in English, premium prices in US must make audiophiles think they are better products than they would have been at less cost. Plus import duties, which some might mistake for reflection in sonic quality.

 

[Kingrex]

Dealers will be happy to have you as customer. As for me I have sold 20-30 used items , 5/6 koetsu, many miyajima catridges & many are happy buying used for less than 1/2 MSRP

I worry about wear. I clean all my records. Even so, JR can see wear on my Aidas. I have not used it thar much. I was not cleaning records when I started and I destroyed a Rega Exact and a Denon. I feel like crtridges have a shory life. 2000 plays and its definitely not new. That goes fast. If I play 20 sides a night thas 6000 a year. Part of whybI bought the the Aidas. Sylopsis said $500 to retip.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If I play 20 sides a night

Who plays almost 10 hours of music per night?

 

[Kingrex]

Who plays almost 10 hours of music per night?

Thats about 6 hours. Maybe exessive. Even at 10 sides, that's only a little more than half a year. The point is very valid. Needles wear out. I would not buy a used cartridge unless JR examined it. That's $500. I'm sure Audioblazer would be happy to use a cartridge for years, then sell it to me for close to what he bought it for. No thank you. I will buy new. I then immediately send them to JR. He finds far more out of manufacturer tolerance than people care to believe.

 

[bonzo75]

Thats about 6 hours.

You listen to 6 hours of music per night? When do you then get time to forum?

 

[Kingrex]

You listen to 6 hours of music per night? When do you then get time to forum?

When my setup was in the living room I ran it as all around music. Background and intent listening.

Right now I have no stereo. And I have a ton of time as a week before the remodel was to start I herniated 2 lumbar disc and opened 2 annular fishers. I have been immobile for 5 weeks.

And just to piss on the party, I was to fly to Texas Tuesday for very advanced injections to deal with these issues and I got Covid and I'm pretty sure E Coli from those organic carrots. I was close to going to the emergency room from vomiting on top of being covid weak. Now I'm scheduled for early december inhections.

So, yea, so so so boored with nothing to do but annoy people here.

 

[Ron Resnick]

JR . . . finds far more out of manufacturer tolerance than people care to believe.

+1

 

[Audiohertz2]

Most cartridges are misaligned at birth , the more accurate the stylus assembly the more you pay , its mainly the reason why some cartridges with similar bodies, the higher models cost more, because they meets spec, the out of tolerance ones are cheaper and usually the lower model ..

You can tweak them into shape and get a much higher performance than delivered.

 

[Kingrex]

Most cartridges are misaligned at birth , the more accurate the stylus assembly the more you pay , its mainly the reason why some cartridges with similar bodies, the higher models cost more, because they meets spec, the out of tolerance ones are cheaper and usually the lower model ..

You can tweak them into shape and get a much higher performance than delivered.

Can you back that up? How would you know? And what price point are you talking. $5k, $10k, $15k, $20k?

I will write JR and ask what he sees.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Yes and yes Check with JR .....

 

[Kingrex]

Yes and yes Check with JR .....

How do you back it up? Manufacturer claim? After all Richard wrote, I don't know I trust that as a source. Anecdotal evidence from users. How did they figure it out. Is setting up a cartridge a reliable way to truely know the cartride. Or does the arm have a impact that can skew results. Seems to me someone would need to look at the cartridge under a microscope.

Do any manufacturer include a high resolution image like JR does with all the errors clearly noted to alllow optimum setup? I have never heard of this. But I don't know about high $ carts. If they don't, isn't it a little odd. They have to be aware as it seems to me a high resolution tool would be needed to attach the Stylus to the cantilever.

 

[bonzo75]

And just to piss on the party, I was to fly to Texas Tuesday for very advanced injections to deal with these issues and I got Covid and I'm pretty sure E Coli from those organic carrots. I was close to going to the emergency room from vomiting on top of being covid weak. Now I'm scheduled for early december inhections.

Sorry to hear. Get some quality sets to stay warm and burn that virus

 

[Kingrex]

Actually, my 845 are sitting in the rental, out of their crates. They were providing jobsite music through some crapy Bose. I was pondering if I could walk them to the main house. Then I have to wire my speakers back up. Thats a pain with the PAP as I have to lash the drivers to the crossover. It takss a few hours.
I wish I had a Zu or Devore that only needed a speaker cable.

 

[Kingrex]

JR said I can post this. He's to busy at the moment to jump on himself.

I have found no evidence that there is a direct relationship between price paid for a cartridge and meeting design specifications either of the cartridge manufacturer or their vendors. In fact, because the higher priced models take greater risks with respect to the severity of their stylus profiles, it could be argued that tolerances get even worse as you pay more. For example, a conical stylus does not exhibit any zenith error or SRA error whatsoever because it does not have a defined contact minor radius.

There are some manufacturers that get some of the specs better than others, but none that I know of are getting all of them consistently hit